Beta 11m discussion
 

Yikes!

Limit Frame Rate at 60 still fluctuates, but only slightly.

Turn LFR off and I get an over 500 + fps that is fluctuating wildly!

Up and Down arrows for volume seems to work well though.

Adding it to readme now.

Needs to be added to "Keyboard Shortcuts" list in "About" screen.

The sound on my computer is not currently working, so I can't test the volume control. The way it's supposed to work is:

The up-down arrows adjust the volume of whatever sound is ON, but doesn't change the volume of whatever is OFF. So if Music is on, but not the bubble sound, the music volume will be affected. Next time the bubble sound is turned on, it will be at its last volume.

OK, I'll test that.

Also, the centering on the color picker looks perfect.

:TU:

Volume control works for either bubbles or music or both if they are running at the same time.

Am I really getting an over 500 fps or is it a reporting error?

Should be correct.

How is the rate-of-change for the volume control? Too slow, too fast?

The volume control works a little slowly, and it causes skips in the playback of CanonGuitar for me. It could be two to two and a half times quicker, if it's meant as a quick way to drop the sound for a phone call. Alternatively, a mute feature if you want to keep the fade out/in really gradual?

John Who, I'm getting a higher reported unlimited frame rate too- max 92 fps. Not really a big change in this case. This is the other of my two identical laptops that always gets a higher frame rate (different drivers, software etc).

I think it (volume control) is OK.

From mid-way to high seems to take about 3-4 seconds of holding down the "up" arrow. You can easily hear the volume change.

With pre-MA3 versions, the machine was allowed to run unfettered when Limit Frame Rate was off, and that's the way it will work here. In the early days, the program was used extensively as a bench-mark test for 3D hardware, (it was nicknamed Fishmark).

Default will be ON, with a limit of 90. Users are free to turn it off or adjust the limit up to 125. It's very likely that the new 3D stereovision cards will need to take control of the framerate, so I need to let them do their thing.

I guess we need more feedback on the volume control. It's taking about 20s from max to min and there's definitely distortion.

Slider goes from 30 to 120 now.

Default "On", limit "90" seems reasonable.

Will "CTRL-R" also now set to these settings?

I'm getting about 8 seconds from low to high on the volume and not hearing any distortion.

Okay, more testing. Only getting the distortion with limit frame rate set to off. Cracking sounds and stuttering in the playback. Fade is about 8s quicker with limit frame rate on.

Yes, with no limit on the framerate, the building and displaying of frames takes nearly 100% of the CPU, so everything else (volume controls, other programs, etc.) will have very few clock cycles to work with.

Don't really like running at 500 + fps, but I just tried what Nicki described and I'm still not getting any distortion.

Guess we need other folks to chime in.

Jim -

will a multi-core CPU make a difference?

Maybe frame rate on one core and volume and other programs on other cores?

Also, could be a difference between W32 and W64?

Maybe a difference between XP, Vista, and W7?

Maybe on all those. I have no idea.

Please try this test:
Start with the music volume slider near the middle: MA3 running, of course.

Increase volume quite a bit with up-arrow.
Press CTRL-R
Press up-arrow.

[Or down-arrow, CTRL-R, down-arrow]

Okay Dale, I'm getting some weird stuff. The up and down arrows are operating different controls depending on which boxes I have checked. At first, they were working backwards for volume control when I checked and unchecked limit frame rate, then they started to affect frame rate only while the frame rate box was unchecked, and then they started to control pan speed.

Pressing CTRL-R set the frame rate back to unlimited and slider to 120, but the music volume did not reset until I hit the up or down button.

Oh, I should say that pressing CTRL-R brings back the audio distortion but I completely understand Jim's explanation about the CPU cycles, so this is absolutely okay.

Without any limits the program has 100% access. This seems to fit the definition and for some people it will be very important even if there are very good reasons never to exceed the monitor refresh rate.

Don't ask me! I just suggested something to try. :eek:

I don't know about the first part of that, but the not-resetting-until-arrow-key is something I can fix.

Project for you then Dale :)

Bring up the program settings box and leave it there. Try unchecking/checking some of the boxes and see if it makes the up/down arrows affect anything they shouldn't.

It's a bit random so you'll have to play about. Keep fiddling for a minute or two. Same boxes, different boxes.

\

Yep. Got it in one (example).

Start MA3
Press CTRL-R
Bring up Program Settings (spacebar, click)
Press up or down arrow, note that it toggles "Cancel" and "OK" buttons [That's one little effect - big effect follows]
Check the top box - Exit on Mouse Move.
Press the down arrow - TWICE and then hold it. Note what happens.
Press the up arrow.
Etc.

General description: when you check a box, that "line" gets focus. Then pressing the down-arrow moves down a line - until you reach a line with a slider. Then moves over to the slider, and the arrow keys affect the slider position. [Up arrow for right, and down arrow for left). UNchecking a box does the same thing, of course.

Added footnote: Same problem with the left/right arrow keys, too. We just never noticed it before????

Interesting.

Note also that the left/right arrows work within the "Pan Speed" and "Limit Frame Rate" sliders, but do not work within the two volume sliders.

Left/Right work with "clock/logo" color picker and the background color sliders too,

but, do not work with Volume slider in the "Music Playlist" screen or the above mentioned sliders.

I don't think that is a bug... how else to move to the next next.. The tab key does it in some programs but the arrow keys are just fine IMO.
As to the arrow keys adjusting the volume.. a needless function IMO... the "M" key will mute and the volume knob on my speakers work just fine.

Ralph, the up/down arrows do not always move one to the next next.

Sometimes they hang up on the sliders, as mentioned.

Hmmm - they "work" for me in the volume sliders. Just very slowly.

By the way - CTRL-R in my initial instructions isn't necessary, of course. I just wanted to start with "known" conditions.

I stand corrected.

Although, "very slowly" is an understatement. :)

The arrow keys toggle among 3 of the 9 buttons on the main settings panel.

The arrow keys adjust the BLUE color on one of the Background Colors.

And surprisingly, are NOT capable of adjusting the volume slider on the Music Settings panel.

I agree with Nicki that it's "weird". It also seems (to me) to be inconsistent from panel to panel. Only Jim can tell us if it's working as intended, or what.

Works on the RED and GREEN too, for me.

Yes, if you first mouse-click on the red or green slider.

But, as far as I can tell, you can't get to anything but blue, by using only the arrow keys.

And, of course, once you "arrow" to the blue slider, you're stuck there until you use the mouse for something.

got it!

:TU:

I'm having a hard time sorting through all this. Are the things that are considered strange all happening in the Settings universe, or are some of them happening when the actual program is running?

Edit - OK, I believe they are all in Settings, and you are simply seeing the natural Windows behavior of controls. Tab will switch from one control to the next, as will the arrow keys. The difference is that when the arrow keys land on a slider, they control the slider. That way, you can move all the controls with just the keyboard, and no mouse. When on a slider, just hit Tab to go to the next control. The + and - keys check and uncheck the boxes. A box needs to be checked in order for its associated slider to ever get the focus when using Tab.

The Volume controls move slowly when controlled this way, because they have a lot of ground to cover. Their range is 0 to 3000.

11n ? is holding a nice steady FPS within my monitor's refresh rate. - CPU usage is within reasonable bounds. - Fish movement is very smooth.

The Up/Down arrow keys change the volume smoothly, (and slowly!). But their need is totally pointless IMO, the B/M keys are much more efficient at killing the sound if/when taking phone calls, etc.

Ah, it is a Windows "feature" - the arrow key operation.

Testing it in various Control Panel panels, I see where both left/right arrows and up/down arrows control left/right movement of a slider and once the slider is selected you can not get out of that selection using the arrow keys. Had not noticed that in Windows before.

I guess it would be too much to ask for Jim to correct this oddity in the OS. :)

Just clarifying -

The slider limits of LFR are 30 - 120. Is 125 a typo?

Yes, it's just in Settings.

There seems to be one anomaly: on the main Settings panel, the arrow keys do not traverse the entire set of buttons.

Also, two questions about doing everything with no mouse (just keyboard):

On the Music and Clock/Logo panels, I can't figure out how to get to the "Move" control.

On the Fish Settings panel, I can't figure out how to do much that's of significance (select fish, change numbers, etc.).

Footnote:
Does not seem to be the case, at least with Windows 7.