Will SereneScreen Marine Aquarium still be Number One? ...
 

In the aquarium screen saver stakes, due to the continued progress made by Dream Aquarium, it now appears to me that Marine Aquarium can only be considered joint 'Number one!' ... It is still better in some areas, (one example, fish detail), but less so in others, (fish movement and behaviour). When, however, we come to multi-display, about which so much was said when it was first introduced to MA, then, IMO, MA2.6MD is now a very poor second indeed to Dream Aquarium!

I don't understand, when Prolific have made additional tanks for both Goldfish and Sharks, why some variation can not be added for MA. - And more importantly, why the multi-display is restricted to clones, when DA offers independent choices/settings for the second display. - I know that some of you are going to attempt to shout me down with technical reasons, but come on, guys! - the years are passing, and you are being overtaken by one man working on his own! - There is plenty of room for at least two of you at the top, but at this rate of progress, (or lack of), - you are being left way behind, as the weeks, months, and years, go slipping by!

I still have a great affection and loyalty for MA. - But my current first choice for two monitors is definitely DA.

..... There are times when I wish that Jim was still working independently!

I'll echo what Cliff has said. DA has been my screensaver of choice for a couple months now, ever since the major update to fish behavior and movement. As someone typing this while in a room with five real aquariums I still find it hard to believe just how realistic DA looks in that regard. MA has some serious catch up work to do and I await the new release that will be able to hold its own for more years to come. Until then though...

MA has been at the top so long it didn't need to do anything but that is not true anymore. It's time, no it's way past time, to do something different. It is still a beautiful program but something needs to happen. Years of promises just don't help keep it number one.

Sorry to say that I have to agree

Regarding multi-monitor displays - MA is written in DX6 (except for the MS Plus Pack version), and DX6 didn't support Multi-monitor displays. Prolific wrote a kludge so that v2.6 sort of supports two displays.

I'm writing V3 in DX9, and the scene will be very wide, so multi-monitor support shouldn't be a problem, at least not with 2 monitors. Any more than two is still an unknown.

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

Any real collision detection in place?

I had never heard of Dream Aquarium till now and Morgan told me about it, I just bought the full version and it is awesome! But my fish may die soon from over feeding. :(

ROFL..... :roflmao:

:sad: Sadly, I have to agree that MA is falling by the wayside while DA is rocketing to the top. But our Forum is still better than theirs! :p :)

MA, our favorite screen saver, is over 6 years old now, that's 1,000,000 in computer years, while DA is a young pup with lots of potential.

Goldfish and Sharks have not reached their full potential yet, but talk of improvements have tapered off.

Hopefully MA3 will eventually be released and reclaim the top spot for our Prolific family.

Actually, things are moving forward a bit. I finally recieved my hi-def camcorder on the third try. First two companies (Genius Camera and Express Camera) turned out to be PURE EVIL. All I'll say is when buying discounted camera equipment over the Internet, pay close attention to the customer write-ups at epinions.com. I ended up getting the camcorder from B&H - a very reputable dealer.

Now to find just the right coral and invertibrates to photograph.

It isn't only about multi-monitor displays or DX6 limitations. - Having lived with DA for some time now it's difficult to deny that watching MA cloned on two screens does emphasize the pacing back and forth feeling of the MA fish movements. (Beautiful though the fish are). - But even on a single monitor, the variety of tanks, and fish behaviour, afforded by the competition (even Goldfish and Sharks, but mainly DA), is now showing our favorite MA in a poor light.

If I have got my estimations right, it is now over 4 years since what will be V3 (ie the 3D background), was first mooted. I know it is pointless asking for even the vaguest of ETAs, - but the natives are getting restless, - And from the above comments, it isn't just me!

In some ways I think I would prefer to be told that what we have now is it! And that MA will receive no further development, - rather than prolong this discussion through more years of promises and waiting! .... Life is too short! - We're getting old! ;)

... However, if that is not going to happen, (at least not yet!), and I don't see Prolific getting their finger out and doing anything to improve the MD implementation, (they're still advertising the DVD !!! - the same one that was a discontinued item when I bought it on the 16th December 2003 !!!), - then perhaps all we can look forward to is something in an after life! ;)

... At least this forum does have its moments, on occasions!

We have been very patient over the past years but for some of us time is running out. Will we ever see V3?

I wish Jim had mentioned the companies he was considering buying cameras from FIRST so I could look them up on the New York scam electronics company HALL OF SHAME website. At the very least, I would hope before buying electronics online that people would check epinions.com first.

Or resellerratings.com. That is a good site as well for finding out how sites treat people.

I can only think of three camera stores in New York that have a good reputation - B&H (where I buy most of my stuff), Adorama, and 17th Street Photo.

Glenn

Cliff: Finger out of where? ;)

I know that if Jim can get his head wrapped around the new things he is trying to learn we could see something just as innovative as MA was in the beginning. I must agree on the time frames though, it has been quite awhile.

No, I've given up trying to learn the new stuff, and will be doing the new version "Old School".

That sounds not too bad to me, go ahead Jim!
It would be a shame if all the work done so far was wasted time (there are some things from the freshwater aquarium, wich you can recycle!?).

Nope, but I still plan to do the Freshwater tank after MA 3.0.

It makes me a bit sad to admit - but I also must agree with cjmaddy. I've almost completely given up hope for a new version of SS (MA). I enjoy visiting these forums, and will continue to do so, but IMHO DreamAquarium has eclipsed SS(MA) - especially if you are running dual monitors. Jim, I know you have been working VERY hard over the years and it must be frustrating to put in so much effort and have so little to show for it. I also appreciate how available you are through these forums - so please don't take any of this as a personal 'slam' - I'm just expressing my opinions as an impartial observer and simulated acquarium enthusiast.

I have a little bit different perspective. :rolleyes: I love both DA and MA. I have them setup under the Carousel program so that they are constantly rotating. When we just had Jim's aquarium, it seemed at times that there were long periods of waiting for an update, but when the updates came, they usually beat expectations. Now we have two aquariums that are both very high quality. Alan's aquarium is quickly growing and developing which gives me something to look forward to each day, and at the same time, it keeps me occupied while I wait for Jim's masterpiece to be completed. In short, I am happy waiting on Jim's work because I know it will be excellent when it is done, and to help alleviate the pain of waiting, I have Alan's screensaver to keep me inspired with the ever-changing fish aquarium genre of screensavers.

Great work Jim and keep pushing forward! :TU:

Thanks, Peachy!

I too look forward to your next beautiful tank jim, with NERVOUS anticipation!
;)

Michael: - I could not possibly imagine! ;) .... Just another of our strange British sayings perhaps?

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Before it is thought that I started this thread to 'slam' Jim in any way, let me say that nothing could be further from the truth.

All of us who have commented here, or who have communicated via PM, (of which there have been a number!), know only too well of Jim's dedication in the world of top class aquarium computer simulation. To most of us I am sure he will remain King! ... He was certainly the first, and still leads the way, for quality and perfection!

If the same care and attention to detail could have been shown to the marketing and product development, I think things could have been so much better. - IMO, the continuing success of Marine Aquarium has taken place in spite of, not because of, the way it has been brought to the market over recent years, There are so many areas in which things could have been done better, For just one example, the GUI is still confusing, with no real help for the first time user. The tab labelled 'Help' contains no help! - it is still nothing more than a list of keyboard shortcuts. (This has been pointed out a number of times. It should really be a basic tutorial, not a list of shortcuts.) And how does a newcomer sort out the difference between the two different anamorphic check boxes, - and what do they mean? - Even the default values are wrong if one of your monitors is a 1280x1024 flat panel. - But no explanation as to their use is given anywhere!

Jim, If the comments in this thread help even in only a very small way, to encourage you to rethink the struggles you appear to have been having in embracing new techniques, and returning to "Old School", as you put it, then I have no regrets at all about starting this thread! - You and others, will be aware of my opinions about how I wish various things and conditions could have been different. Perhaps that is just wishful thinking on my part, - but I can assure you that we all have the good of the product, and of yourself, at heart.

In an ideal world I would like to see MA continue development of marine aquaria, and DA to do the same for freshwater. And if some sort of collaboration could take place, then so much the better! - but I know that that can probably only be a dream ..... (no pun intended).

To end my rant. ...
It is not just selfishness on our part in wanting V3 tomorrow! :) ..... Though that would not be objected to! ;);)
..... Thanks for putting up with my ramblings!

Not to worry, Alan - my Freshwater tank is still a long way off.

I feel no sense of competition anyway, which is why Cliff's plan (though clever) won't work. Alan is a nice guy, and I wish him all the success he deserves. That's the problem with making fish simulations, no SOBs. (As in, "Oh YEAH? I'll show those SOBs!!!)

Very well put

Methinks,the DA have been on the qui vive radically of tort.

1.It will jeopardize your OS permanently:Upgrading via Internet at once and try to run DA twice if it detected your DA were illicit.

2.Furtive security registry(ies):Can't be uninstall and reinstalled on the same OS without online-verifying.-nolens volens

3.Endless build ver.xxx:Bugs-fixing,concomitants(fish,extra features,etc.,).

4.Who know what more can be.

DA forfends evil-doers congruously,nevertheless,it scares roturier as well.In cert,if you have pelvied quod supra would be moot.

huh?
 

What??? Could you explain more clearly what you are trying to say?:rolleyes:

Perhaps you should try to ask your question in Taiwanesse. ;) - Stick at it, you'll get the gist of it. ... I find her Latin is far better than mine, which adds to the interest in sorting it out, - and also improves my knowledge of Latin! .... Well done, Celine! :TU:

Latin
 

I did take a semester of Latin. Needless to say I got more confused as time went on :):lol:

I'd have to say I'm currently with peachyza on this one: huh? Someone tell me who rewrote Babelfish to mix and match several languages in the output. :confused: :erm: :)

There's me trying to be a gentleman for once, ;) and you want to slag someone off for not fully mastering our language! - And then you want to slag off Bablefish also? :erm: - It's surely up to the reader to recognise the Latin/French/whatever phrases, and sort out their own translations if required! :rolleyes: :) :p

He's talking about the internet updates. I don't like them either, and it makes it hard (impossible?) to install it on a non internet computer. There has to be a better method of anti-piracy.

DA is superb but the detail on the fish isn't very good. That's the one place where MA has been amazing from the start, but since you can't "zoom" in on fish it's hard to appreciate that level of detail (but it's great it's there). DA textures just need to be about double the detail, and have some extra shading (to make the cardinals glow etc.) then it would look incredible.

I still wish either SS would add things like AA controls in the options, because you can't set these with profiles on scr files, and AA massively improves how they look. It's not a difficult thing to code either.

It's quite amazing to think that it's been 6 years since I bought MA, and apart from new fish, it's basically the exact same technical demonstration now as it was then. If someone were to write a true DX9 screensaver with pixel and vertex shaders (vertex shaders would be very useful for mutliple fish) it would blow us all away, but doesn't seem to be happening. DA isn't graphically that impressive (textures are low res and details just aren't there), but it's a masterpiece of implementation (proper 3D tank space, fish behaviour, schooling etc.). It adds so much life to what you see.

Anyway I have lots of real fish now so looking at a fake screensaver doesn't quite do it for me like it used to ;) Especially watching my platy fry grow up (5 weeks old).

I'm writing MA3 in DX9.

If I just could get the cuttlefish in the MA, then I wouldn't choose another fish and would be so very happy with it.

That's great buddy. I know I'll get crap for asking and I know better but here it goes......................... How much do you have written so far? I know nothing about writing code but just thought I would ask.

Marian - MA3 is the basic 3D framework for all future development. Internally, every line of code, every 3D model, and every texture will be different from MA2.6. The background will be over 2 screens wide, and made entirely of 3D objects (no 2D background pictures). The soft corals will be "alive" and moving. The clams will open and close. The fish movement will be much more realistic, including schooling behavior. When it first comes out, it will probably contain all the same creatures that v2.6 has. All the additional creatures will be sold separately, in "Creature Packs". I plan to put the cuttlefish in Creature Pack 1.

Ed - I have about 4000 lines of code in place, mostly just Microsoft boilerplate stuff to get anything to show on the screen in DX9. Since it is written in DX9, Multi-Monitor support is included, as well as a "live" preview window in Display Settings.

It all sounds really good, but I would be a lot more excited about it if I had more than one lifetime. :)

Me, too.

Me three,

Ok, ..................................... I'm 4. Thanks for the info buddy. I can't wait to see it. Oh before I forget, With you doing it in DX9, is it any harder to do?