Thanks. I appreciate your explanation.

Jim has pointed out that Screen Savers really aren't necessary with modern display devices. That's essentially true.

To paraphrase, you're saying it's more elegant if a Screen Saver actually would save the screen (by regularly changing every pixel).

Well, pretty much - unless, of course, the pixels aren't on, such as a screen blanker or even some of the Windows default SS's like 3D Text.

As an aside, I have seen images "burned in" on LCD screens, so I know it is a possibility.

I suspect a "true" screen saver would be one that turned the monitor off. Most monitors come with such a feature by way of a switch. Or, use the built in system that "turns monitor off in xx minutes". Anyone worried about burning in an image should consider that solution.
As Jim evidently intended, his aquarium was intended to be a "program". However, he realized it could easily made to start automatically by changing the extension from an *.exe to a *.scr. And for that most of us thank him.
Anyone hung up on this not being a true screen saver just remove the scr extension and replace it with an exe. Then make a short cut on your desktop to run the "program" at will.

LCD monitors are not susceptable to permanent burn-in. Temporary burn-in can be fixed by displaying pure white for a moment.

Has anyone noticed that nearly all TV networks display a permanent logo in the corner of the screen? They don't burn in because the image "jitters" around by a few pixels and people tend to change channels occasionally. Only a sharp-edged static image displayed continously for months or years could even produce a noticeable temporary burn-in on an LCD screen. If a user has a display so wide that there is no room left for even a few pixels of automatic scrolling, and insists on never turning the system off, they could still eliminate all possibility of burn-in by looking at something ELSE on their computer every few weeks :)

Hmmm... they do say time is relevant... It takes more than "a moment" to clear the persistence on one of my monitors. More like several minutes.



Not true. I can have one on one of my monitors in less than a day, though it is dependent on the content of the screen. High contrast edges with high brightness levels cause the most problems.

What brand of monitor is that? My Philips, Sony and NEC monitors have had MA3 displayed for tens of thousands of hours, and previous versions for hundreds of thousands of hours without the slightest sign of burn-in.

Viewsonic VA902b. I have a pair of them, purchased around 4 months apart. While both of them show some signs of persistence after an extended period of time, one of them is much worse at it than the other.

As far as not seeing any signs of it on your monitors, I don't doubt that at all. With MA2.6 it would never occur anyway due to the cycling lighting. With MA3 it shouldn't either due to the scrolling... unless... you have three monitors in a horizontal configuration such as my system. In a situation like that, there is no scrolling.

Actually, I never used automatic lighting. I just put it in for other people.

I never used MA2.6's auto lighting, and I never use MA3's auto scrolling, - I have a pair of ViewSonic VP920, plus a VP171s on our other PC.
..... I have never seen ANY burn-in in over five years of using ViewSonic LCDs.

I use MA3 over TWO Samsung 2032BW widescreen monitors and the aquarium never scrolls for me as it is as wide as it will go and I ahvn't experienced burn in so far and it's is displayed the majority of the time

And your point is...? Just because you have not seen it on your particular set up does NOT mean it doesn't happen, or that it isn't a problem for some users. As I pointed out in other threads on this same subject several months ago, persistence in LCD's is nowhere near as big a deal as burn-in was with older CRT monitors, but it DOES exist.

For the vast majority of users it will never become an issue. Either they have equipment which is resistant to persistence, or they have scrolling turned on which is enough to avoid it, or they simply never run MA3 long enough to encounter it. In any case, with such a small population of affected users, it is understandable that Jim has pushed the lighting requests further down on the to-do list than his current efforts.

My point is..... That burn-in is not, and never has been, a problem! .... (In my experience, with ALL the LCDs that I've used.)

Every LCD that I have ever seen and set-up has had 'out-of-the-box' brightness that was enough to burn your eyeballs out! - BUT.....

When brightness settings etc have been correctly adjusted, I shouldn't think that ANY burn-in will be experienced, - in average/normal use.
Tweaking brightness settings is vital, IMO. - Out of the box, it is MUCH too bright! - It will hurt your eyes.... as well as your LCD screen! :)

That depends on what you consider to be "average/normal use". Not to be contrary here, but the difference in ambient lighting between the average home office/den, and an office cubicle under multiple flourescents, can make a huge difference in what brightness level is desirable. And then there is the matter of lots of novice computer users who never realize that there even ARE brightness controls on their monitors. The vast majority of customers I run across have never done any sort of adjusting on their LCD's. They just pull them out of the box, plug them in, turn them on, watch the screen say something about "auto adjusting", and then never touch anything other than the power button from there on out.

If there are, "lots of novice computer users who never realize that there even ARE brightness controls on their monitors", then the problem is with those users, not their LCDs!

I concur.

I have seen a few monitors (don't remember brand/models) of PC LCD screens that had what appeared to be permanent images "burned on" to the screen. Maybe, if sent back to the manufactures, the images could have been removed or worked out. Dunno.

Perhaps, though, they weren't really "burned in" in the same manner as on a CRT, but more "burned out" - meaning the LCD pixels that were continuously on in the exact same state no longer burn as bright as the surrounding ones.

Does that match what you've seen, Rick?

More specific to MA3 beta, I do not believe that even continuous running of MA3 in "pan" mode would ever do this, although any long term issue of a "steady state" of a group of pixels on an LCD screen could be a problem. It appears to me that only a small area along the upper left hand top edge of the screen is not being refreshed or changed by fish movements, and this will be remedied by the proposed future changes to MA.

How would you fix that problem?

RTBM?

WOW. I haven't heard of the burn in on LCD'S. I have 3 monitors and on the right and the left ones they always have the same thing showing all the time. And no burn in. Not even a trace. On the other hand now Plasma screens are the worst for burn in. You couldn't give me one of those no matter what brand they are.

I asked how you would fix that problem, and you answered "RTBM".

Are you suggesting that there is a manual about computer users that I should read - which would fix the problem?

Or, if you're suggesting that there's some way to force computer users to read the manuals - which would fix the problem?

It's easy to say that "those people" are the problem, if you don't have to provide a solution. Or if "just ignore reality" is a rational solution.

I'm just asking how you would fix the problem that you stated.

Dale, I think the best thing I can do is to quote your own words, and tell you to, "just shut up" ... period!

We have been through this question before on the boards - on second thought there probably aren't that many topics we haven't discussed before. The search function works wonders. ;)

It happens very very infrequently on lcd's, I mean you really have to be working at it to get it to happen; but to cure "burn-in" ( which isn't really burn in, its more like stuck pixels ) throw up a bright white image and leave it for a few days. That should fix the problem.

Ed is correct on plasma - they suffer from burn in much worse than lcd.

I think some people in some parts of the world will still have CRTs (including the USA, especially for the accurate colour response) and some people will display the aquarium on a plasma. Also regardless of whether it's called a screen-saver or not it is reasonable to take some measures to avoid burn-in on a program that people might leave running for extended periods of time... tho (i) if they leave it paused it's kinda down to them (actually, personally I'd nudge it a little bit, in software, every 30 mins) and (ii) if they have a display so wide it can't scroll then they should be expert enough to understand the issues.
I also would like it if we could get past telling people to shut up...
John

I agree.

Honestly, ESHIREY, if I hadn't seen it myself I'd be very skeptical of anyone saying it, too.

Can't say either way whether the PC repair shop where I saw them tried the "bright white image and leave it for a few days" trick.

All this fuss about "burn in". On my screen and I will bet a box of doughnuts on 99% of other Window users is a very stationary set of pixels. Bottom left and identified with a big letters Start. It would seem to me that "IF" burn in was a serious a problem then the task bar would show up like a flag. And I do not see one in spite of that area being 100% static and refreshed in most cases only when shutting the computer off.

That's a good point. I been using (and now too) crt's for 20 years.
The taskbar area never shows any 'burn-in'.

Also with the task bar I agree but some people like my self have all my icons and task bar hidden.

Yep, and when one's screen saver does come on, it refreshes that area as well.

Also, if you run any program "full screen", it covers the "start" button.

All true, one can also have the task bar on "auto hide" .But I suspect the vast majority of Window users do none of those things... ever. And frankly probably would not recognize a burn in either.

Burn In
 

I have used the same LCD monitor for over a year and a half. My computer is ON most of the time. Sometimes I'll remember to turn the screen saver on, but usually I don't because I sleep restlessly and will often wake, and check the progress of what ever I am doing on the computer and it is easier to leave the SCR off so I can just roll over.. look at my monitor, grunt, and go back to sleep. (When I do have it on.. those fish just rock! I have been known to just lay half drowsing on my bed, watching the aquarium... I totally love Marine Aquarium).

So for a year and a half my monitor has basically been running non stop. I see no burn in anywhere on it. Not the task bar, not the icons, not even my back ground image that is of one of my digital manipulations.

If others are experiencing Burn-In...

Anyway from my experience, no issues. What others might experience who knows. Not all comps are built the same, and not all settings are identical. You need to consider that for some, their settings will be much different than others and it may be the settings that starts the burn-in for LCD's...

My sister has her bright and gamma at what I consider to be nearly overpowering.. but she can't read the computer otherwise (vision problems).. I expect her new LCD will eventually experience something like burn-in because of it.

~A

Plasma Burn in
 

Just as a side note, burn in on Plasmas is greatly exaggerated / overblown. It's a very common myth that plasmas are horrible in that regard. Yes, plasmas can get burn in, while LCDs 99% of the time can't, however, you have to be really trying to get it to happen. Now, I can't speak for using it as a computer monitor, but I've had a Panasonic plasma for 7 years, and I watch lots of movies and play video games. I've had some marathon gaming session with friends, 8 or 10 hours at a time. I've never seen even the ghost of image retention or burn in. And with modern TVs it's even more rare. Just walk through your local store and look at the display models that have the same image on them all day long (some store do this as opposed to playing demo videos, or the demos have a logo that is always in the same place). I've never seen one burned in. Most sets that get burn in are defective. Image retention is slightly more common, but can be erased in a few minutes or hours.

LCD's do not suffer from "burn in" as such....they suffer, in some case from "persistence"... that is the image or shadow of an image will remain on the screen until a user uses another image to "over write" the first..

I had this issue with an earlier version of MA...i had persistant "shadows" of the crystal area and some other items on the screen.....then again these were on early versions of LCD screens.

with new plasma screens there is a "shifting" of pixels that can be turned on...this helps to eliminate persistent images.....looks goofy on straight text items as the screen shifts side to side every few seconds, but on a movie or screen saver...oooppppsss..."virtual aquarium"...it should work fine...

...j.

Hello, help with why the version 3, there is no automatic switching on and off the aquarium lighting?

It is planned.

Power Options
 

When I apply the Marine Aquarium screensaver, the Power Options of my computer is disabled: after the presetted time the screen turns off, but the computer is not entering into stand by. Because I often leave the computer and sometimes come back after hours, it would be nice if it could enter on stand by. Have this problem a solution?
Thank you

I just downloaded the latest beta onto my latest resurrected PC with top quality GeForce 7600GS graphics card and I think it's brilliant. I've been sitting with my nose pressed up against the monitor for the last 1/2 hour. It's getting embarrassing.

I love the background colours, I love the fade out / fade in of the 'logos', I love the option for different colours on the calendar.

Now just waiting for that oil rig. Oh, wait... ;)

Another MA3 sighting:

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8...monthebigs.jpg

On the "big screen" at a PC Users Group meeting.

The current "11f" up there for all to see.

That's about the nicest venue for a user group meeting that I've ever seen.

We are fortunate to be able to use that auditorium for our meetings.

MA looked most excellent on the projector's screen. The picture I took is slightly fuzzy but at least it captures the venue somewhat.

Looks good to me John. I am assuming that you are the one that managed to get that up there?