SS settings drops MA3
 

I don't know whether this should be in the installer thread; someone can move it if they want. Also this involves Vista64.

I have encountered major problems, and don't know if it's me or the installer.

Prob #1: I installed MA3, set it as default SS, and then entered a keycode. All was well, until I realized tonight that my machine, although unattended, had not gone to sleep as usual. The monitor had shut down, but the MA3 music ,and I presume the SS itself, was still running, and the machine was running with all lights blazing.

Prob #2: Not wanting to worry about it now, I just changed my default SS to DA, which I know will allow the comp to go to sleep. As soon as I did that MA3 dissappeared from the Display Settings (SS Settings) dropdown list. It was still in the Add/Remove panel, and in SysWOW64. It would also start manually from the desk icon as would the 'beta9.' But I could no longer select it as default.

Prob#3: The only way around this was to completely uninstall, run a registry cleaner, restart, and reinstall (disabling AVG and Spybot). When I did this I got 3 entries in the SS Settings dropdown list: MA3 and MA2 + Time, and 1 called "PSerenescreen Marine Aquarium 3." When I right clicked the MA3 icon and clicked "install' the odd entry ( PSerene...etc) disappeared. Further, I did not have to re-enter my keycode, so I knew the registry had not been thouroughly cleaned.


I actually did this process 3 times and got the same result. I still have MA2+time in the list.

---
Now, I am still running Beta9 ( with the clock, etc), and I do have MA2 installed. It was my belief that MA2 had to be installed to run the beta series; am I correct about that?

And another thing; before MA3 would run I got a message window from Spybot that a registry change was requested, specifically: from "old data: C:\windows\SYSTEM32\marine ~1.scr" to "new data" C:\SysWOW64\marine~1.scr.

Up till now I had seen no entries for Serenescreen in System32.

I also manually checked the registry and found (after uninstall) the following entries:

HKEY Current User> Software> Serenescreen> 1. MA2 +time and 2.MA3.
HKEY Local Machine> Software> WOW6432node> 1. MA2 +time and 2. MA3.

The Local Machine entries were far sparser than the Current user entries, but both had values entered. And both 'MA2 +time' had the Reg Code.

Anyway, you folks know more than me what this means, so appreciate your advice. Should I have uninstalled MA2? I thought Jim had said that they were independant and would not conflict. Is there something else going on. And surely it is a problem if changing screensavers caused MA3 to disappear?


Terribly sorry about such a long post, but thought you'd want all the info.

I think we may be close to dropping Vista64 from the recommeded list.

Regarding MA2 - no, the MA3 Beta does not need it or even know it's there. The Beta should recognize your MA3 Key.

Why drop it?, 64 bit is the future, if anything it should be the recommended version!

http://www.techspot.com/news/33310-m...-be-64bit.html

"We’ve been able to make the switch to 64-bit operating systems for a while now, but driver compatibility issues and the mere fact that there wasn’t a lot of need for it have held up widespread adoption. Things have been changing rapidly in the past year, though, according to Microsoft, with about 25 percent of all Vista installations in 2008 opting for a 64-bit setup."

I'm on 32-bit XP, but rctneil has a point... especially for the future...

I ahve Vista 64 and have hardly had any issues with Ma3 apart from the ones that have been reported and fixed!

The issue is that using all of the documented instructions from Microsoft to make a Screen Saver installer doesn't seem to work. So there must be some trick that SS developers are doing to make it work properly on Vista64. For the time being, the workaround is to right-click on the Aquarium file and choose "Install". This uses the operating system's own install routine for screen savers.

It may be that someone will have to take a snapshot of the Registry just before and after performing that step and then get back to us on what change(s) were made so the official Installer can make the same changes.

I thought that was "normal behavior" for MA. I am sure that I have a Vista Ultimate 32 system with MA2.6 that continues to play the "bubble sound" after the monitor is turned off (by the automatic power settings) - at least as long as the computer doesn't go into "standby" or "hibernate". [Perhaps your settings are different, though].

I'll have to test that on MA3 when I get a chance. Or, Jim can tell us what the sound is supposed to do under various conditions.

Just after I installed MA3 (Installer version) on an XP system, and asked the installer to make MA3 my default screensaver, I am certain that I saw TWO entries in the Screensaver list for MarineAquarium3. Both identical names, I believe. But after I did "something" (clicked on one?), one of them went away. Perhaps that's a clue. I would guess that it's some "artifact" of the installer that corrects itself - but perhaps it needs to be kept on the list of reported installer bugs?

It's not the 64-bit nature of Vista64 that's causing trouble - the Aquarium itself runs fine. It's all the idiosyncracies (some apparently undocumented) that MS built into it. The sysWOW folders? And the sysWOW64 folder is the one that's for 32-bit applications? Somebody must be TRYING to make this difficult.

Maybe we just need to skip this little-used OS and go right to Windows 7.

Don't dispair, Jim, I'm sure this will work out (and besides I have vista64 :) ).

After fooling with this awhile I think the problem may be in the installer: the only problem is that MA3 disappears when you change screensavers, but it can be re-installed with the desktop icon.

What I did:
1. uninstall MA2.6 and MA3.
2. clean registry w CCleaner and restart.
3. found entry in HKEY Current User but not in Local Machine (see pics).
4. manually deleted entries.
5. reinstalled MA3.
6. still get "PSerene...." in list (this is odd), and would not autolaunch.
7. checked icon "install" -"PSerene..." disappears and SS works.
8. still does not ask to re-enter keycode, so don't know where that's hiding.
9. don't know about hibernate mode yet, but will check later. It may be a function of my motherboard: it has Asus AI Nap mode, and I don't know if there is a problem with that.

added pic in case they help.

Can't do more today. My wife is making me go to a Superbowl party :)

Additional pics:

Thanks for all the effort, Xylem!

I can confirm that on a WXP Pro system with MA3 installed, and the screensaver set to activate at 1 minute, and the monitor to turn off after 2 minutes (and no other power-saving settings), after an hour the bubbles are still merrily burbling in my speakers.

That seems, to me, like normal and expected behavior.

But perhaps Xylem was reporting a different set of conditions?

Well, some new systems (newer than any of mine) have a deeper sleep mode available where they really appear to be dead. I support the normal "Monitor Sleep" and "Hard-Drive Shut-Down" functions which can be set in Display Properties. The program is still running in the background, but should not generate any signals which would wake up the monitor or drives.

This assumes that you have enough RAM. I could imagine situations where the program might need to page textures back and forth to the hard drive if RAM were extremely low. This might be enough system activity to keep the monitor on. I've never tested for low-RAM behavior.

Just to be clear - what's the anticipated "bubble sound" situation with:

1. Monitor and hard disk turned off, system NOT in standby or hibernate.

2. System in standby.

3. System in hibernate.

I think I know, but wanted to confirm. [1=sound, 2 and 3 no sound?]

Bubble sound is on until you turn it off. I'm not sure what happens in hibernate, because I don't have a machine which does it.

In hibernate the machine is effectively off (CPU powered down) so I'm guessing not much :-)
(Hibernate is the same as mechanically off or soft-off, except there's a bit set to say resume from a hard drive image of DRAM/registers, rather than do a standard boot.)

John

Jim, - in Win2k 'Hibernate' is accessed via Start\Settings\Control Panel\Power options, then 'Enable hibernate support' on the Hibernate tab.
You then get an additional 'Hibernate' option when you press Start\Shut Down... I think XP has something similar.

Yes it does.

And as John said, it saves an image of what was running when the machine was powered down in 'hibernate' mode, then reads that back when powering up again.

If you were watching a film when you powered down, it won't start at the point where it 'died'; and if you had a set of pages you'd visited in a browser, it won't remember the history of that, it'll just pull up the page that was current upon hibernation, but otherwise it'll all be as it was when you powered down.

I'm not at all sure what the Aquarium's behavior would be after coming back to life in a hibernate situation. It gets pretty unhappy if it's been more than .02 seconds since the last frame.

Today my machine is back to normal; MA3 runs ok and does not prevent hibernation. BTW, this is a 'suspend to RAM' mode wherein current settings are stored in RAM and then eveything shuts down- HD, fans, lights, etc- and can be instantly resotred to life with the touch of a key/mouse. On Vista 64, at the bottom of the Start menu, there is an on/off icon ( circle with little vertical bar at top) which can instantly activate this state. It will also activate after leaving the comp unattended.

This fucnction was not working with MA3, until I uninstalled MA2.6. Also the odd entries in the SS list window stopped after that, too. Is it certain that MA2 doesn't interfere? In any case I have uninstalled MA2.6 for good; don't need it anyway.

The one problem which remains is that changing the default SS eliminates MA3 from the SS list in display options. It can be reisntated (but only as the default SS) by right clicking the MA3 desktop icon and selecting "install."

I would be interested to know if others have this experience. Also, I wonder if clicking 'install' also activates an install of some sort for MA2.6 which would account for the odd SS list entries?

But, anyway, just to narrow the issue down: it is the problem of changing default Screensavers.

I was rooting for the Cardinals :(

When MA3 doesn't show up in the Display Properties list of screensavers, it's because the program is not in the Windows/System32 directory. That's where the system looks when it builds the list.

Using the right-click-Install method does not move the program into the proper directory in XP (I believe it does in Vista). It works by just giving Windows a pointer to the real location of the file. That works fine until you choose another screensaver, then MA3 won't be on the list any more until it's either right-click-Installed again or copied into the System32 folder. Again, I'm talking about XP here, Vista is different.

Well, I won't prolong this discussion because we are both anxious for you to get back to programming clams :)

My only concern is that, while I see no need to change screensavers, someone later down the line surely will. And if, when they do, the SS disappears it will be unlikely that they will see a way to 'reinstall' it. It will just remain inactive, and of course fail to be a source of amazement and thereby a sales stimulus.

If MA3 fails to install in the right folder, so that it remains in the SS list, then maybe a caveat should be inserted in the readme, or settings panel, or someplace where a new user would see it.

ps. I added a sig so we will all know what systems we're talking about. Cheers...

The solution is to download and use the Marine Aquarium Installer, is it not?

I'd love to write an automatic updater which would make sure the Aquarium is in the right folder, the settings folder is correct, etc. But I think Jim would prefer I didn't.

I think he said something about Vista64, so it's anybody's guess where the program needs to be. What works for most Vista64 users is to use the installer, then right-click the icon and use that installer, too.

Wait...I thought that was exactly what I did. Unless I D/L'd the wrong thing ; "Serenescreen Marine Aquarium 3 Setup," file version 0000, 3.33MB ?

Maybe you can give me a link and I'll try again.

I am using vista64. Do most 64 users not have this problem? (and to be specific, the problem is that after install of a working MA3 you cannot change to another SS without losing MA3.)

-Tom

Yes, you downloaded the installer. As far as most Vista64 owners - the only reports we have so far are from people who were able to get MA3 working normally by right-clicking the icon and choosing Install. I'm not sure if any of them have tried deselecting MA3 in Display Properties, so I don't know if it still shows up on this list after that.

Thanks, Jim.

Jim,

I had the same problem after deselecting the MA3 screensaver . I solved it by copying MarineAquarium3.scr in the Windows directory.

This also applies for MA2.6

I have the exact same issue. Hopefully there is a better way than doing the right click install method each time we decide to change screens savers.

Other than that one minor bug, I can't wait to see the new fish models and the rest of the tank animated.

Well nytiger, copying MA3 from SysWOW64 into the Windows folder (which also contains sysWOW64) does, as PetervH says, resolve the problem of having to use 'install' all the time.

However I see a problem looming whenever one has to do an update because the installer won't recognize where the file is.

If Jim reads this; I know nothing about installers, but I wonder if there is a way to change the install directory with the installer so that this problem could be avoided (can the installer recognize what the OS is?).

I don't know if it's relevant or not but I would point out that Alan Kapler's program is installed directly in 'Windows' and there is no problem with it. Maybe he did it to get around this problem?

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but without some resolution those of us with vista (especially x64) are going to have continual problems. That can't be good.

Anyway, cheers.....

Vista 64 Correct Folder System32 ?
 

Jim,

I'd like to suggest trying to have the screen saver installed to the Windows/System32 folder on Vista systems. Even the 64 bit ones. I am running Vista 64 bit and I've been doing some experimenting:

If I place the screen saver file in the SysWow64 folder the screen saver has never shown up in my screen saver drop down list (from the beginning of beta testing through now). But if I put the screen saver file in the System32 folder it just shows up in the list automatically.

Once the installer came out for testing, the screen saver in the SysWow64 folder did show up in the screen saver list, but I then have the same problem of it disappearing if I switch screen savers. (I hadn't tried that until I read this thread - Why in the world would I change screen savers???!!!)

Anyway I think the easy solution is to put the file in System32.

OK, I'll pass it along to Mark. It's possible that Microsoft has bowed to pressure and changed Vista64 to work the same as all other versions of Windows (using system32 instead of sysWOW64, as Microsoft originally instructed).

I put the scr file in system 32 just because thats where all the other ones are and it works great.

That's where it's always needed to be in all versions of Windows except Vista64. That OS prevents the installer from putting anything into that directory. It's possible that Microsoft has changed this policy. Mark is checking into it.

System32 Folder Permissions
 

This may be helpful to know:

On Vista 64 when placing the screen saver file into the system 32 folder I am asked for Admin privileges by UAC. Clicking the "Confirm" button allows the copy & paste to take place.

Perhaps the installer just needs to be run as admin?

Many programs ask for admin privileges when installing on Vista 64. So it shouldn't seem out of the ordinary to people.

SysWow64 and System32 are actually the same place (via "file system redirection").

See: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/cc300794.aspx
and then scroll down to the "Figure 4 New 64-Bit APIs" section.

From that article:

So it is certainly possible to write to \Windows\System32\ and SysWow64 separately if you manage to get around the redirect and that may be what the Aquarium or Installer are doing.

Yep. So, where should a 64-bit Windows (Vista and/or W7) user manually put the BetaBeta .scr file?

And does that depend at all, on how the .scr file is put there?

Screensaver File for Vista 64 bit
 

Yep. So, where should a 64-bit Windows (Vista and/or W7) user manually put the BetaBeta .scr file?

Has this question been answered? I am running Vista 64 bit and have no idea at this point exactly how the screensaver should be installed and what directory it should be in. I sounds like windows/system32 is the correct one but will the installer place it there in Vista 64 bit system?
I look forward to some more information on this question.
Thanks
Richard

Try this one. It's a new installer version. Mark thinks he found a way of tricking Vista64 into putting it into the proper drawer.

As for the BetaBetas, just find where the installer put this one, and replace it with the latest test version.

Edit: I removed the link - Apparently the installer had the wrong file in it.