Driver Issue ATI graphics and dual monitors

pvernam · 10-15-2008, 07:22 AM

This is a (much edited) re-post of what I had originally posted to the "apparent conflict with Display Fusion" thread. Since I believe that I have exonerated that program (by reproducing the problem on a machine on which it has never been installed), I am now starting this (more appropriately named) thread. feldon32 has said that he would lock that other thread (which had gotten way off track anyway).

I had said that Marine Aquarium 3beta1 works fine on this configuration:

OS: Windows XP MCE 2005 SP3
Hardware: E6600, 2GB RAM, ASUS P5B-E
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD3450 512MB PCIe, Catalyst 8.9
Monitor: ASUS MW221U 22" LCD at 1680x1050x32

and that MA3b1 also works on this configuration, except that problems occur when it stops:

OS: Windows XP MCE 2005 SP3
Hardware: E6700, 2GB RAM, ASUS P5K-E
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD2600XT 256MB PCIe, Catalyst 8.9
Monitor 1: Mitsubishi LT52144 52" LCD HDTV at 1920x1080x32
Monitor 2: Digitech 7" LCD at 848x480x32 (built-in to front of Zalman HTPC case)

MA3b1 will start up and run fine for hours but, when I stop it, Windows Explorer dies ("Windows Explorer has encountered a problem and needs to close.") and the system becomes completely locked up (the Start menu doesn't work and clicking on desktop icons does nothing). About the only thing I can do is Ctrl-Alt-Delete to Restart Windows.

I began to suspect the dual-monitor setup as the source of the problem, so I connected a second monitor to the first machine listed above (the E6600/HD3450 one), which had never had a problem after stopping MA3b1 at least two dozen times. This second monitor is a Hanns-G JW-199DPB 19" LCD (native 1440x900), which had worked fine with MA3b1 when attached to yet another machine (an older one with a P4EE and ATI AIW 9600XT). I immediately had the same problem (Windows lock-up after stopping MA3b1). I tried many different display settings (in both Windows and in MA3b1) with no change in the behavior:
- different resolution for each monitor (1680x1050x32 and 1440x900x32, their native resolutions)
- the same resolution for both monitors (1440x900x32)
- "Display screen saver on this monitor" set for both monitors
- "Display nothing on this monitor" set for the secondary monitor
- "Render same image on all monitors" checked and unchecked

Actually, very rarely (less than 5% of the time) MA3b1 would stop with no error at all, and once I got a "MarineAquarium3 has encountered a problem and needs to close." error dialog (with no Windows lock-up). But every other time I stop MA3b1 I get the "Windows Explorer has encountered a problem and needs to close." dialog and have to reboot. When I disconnect the second monitor (and reboot), MA3b1 behaves normally again (stops with no problems).

I suppose my problem could be caused by an ATI driver issue (I'm using the latest available: Catalyst 8.9), which I imagine would make it a lot tougher (impossible?) for Jim to resolve. I've only seen one post in this forum regarding success with dual monitors (cjmaddy's "Drop in FPS with dual monitors..."), and I'm guessing he's using an nVidia card and driver. (My FPS dropped as well (from ~111 to ~85) when both monitors were not set at the same resolution.) Is anyone having success with dual monitors attached to an ATI card?

Jav400 · 10-15-2008, 07:36 AM

He does indeed use a nVidia card.

pvernam · 10-15-2008, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by pvernam:

I suppose my problem could be caused by an ATI driver issue ...

I'm now pretty certain my problem is not caused by MA3, but is in fact an ATI driver issue. It occurred to me to try another screensaver (Microsoft's own 3D Text) while I had two monitors connected to the HD3450 card, and I got the same (unhappy) result. So, I guess MA3 is off the hook. (Sorry for wasting your bandwidth.)

Jav400 · 10-15-2008, 08:41 AM

We got tons of bandwidth, and this is the way you learn. No one knows anything until they learn it the first time. We just crossed one problem off the list, so no worries.

Jim Sachs · 10-15-2008, 10:10 AM

In-house early testing with dial monitors showed ATI to be far more problemtic than nVidia, but some cards do work. In my Frankenstein machine, I've got a PCI nVidia card, and an AGP ATI card, each running its own monitor fairly well.

DaleArden · 10-15-2008, 11:31 AM

Just for the sake of the info , I've been able to get MA3 to run just fine on my laptop using it's own screen at 1280x800 as monitor 1 and a regular television through s-video at lower resolutions suitable for such a device , as monitor 2 . This is with ATi Radeon Xpress 200M and the latest driver . Running Windows XP Home SP3 . AMD Sempron Mobile 3300+ processor . Compaq V5000 .

Jim Sachs · 10-15-2008, 03:04 PM

Thanks for the info.

pvernam · 11-18-2008, 05:59 PM

I tried running beta 6 on my dual-monitor machine that was having this problem, and I couldn't get Windows to hang when stopping MA3 (even after MA3 had run for ~30 minutes). It seems like the problem has been fixed, either by Jim or by updated ATI drivers (I'm currently running Catalyst 8.10, will install 8.11 tonight and try again).

pvernam · 11-19-2008, 08:40 AM

I updated my ATI graphics drivers to Catalyst 8.11 and left MA3 beta 7 running overnight. No problems on any of my systems, including my dual-monitor XP MCE system that used to get hung when stopping MA3. Yea!

Also, back on 10/13 (in the thread "apparent conflict with Display Fusion"), I had reported that the MA3 beta works fine on these ATI graphics cards:

ATI Radeon HD2600XT
ATI Radeon HD3450

But the list of tested graphics cards in the "Marine Aquarium 3 Beta RELEASE & DOWNLOAD" thread has not been updated to include these. Should it be? (These two are not among those for which testing was requested, but they are also not in the tested list, so I figure this info might be of use to somebody who didn't happen to read that (obsolete and closed) thread.) And I have since found that MA3 also works fine on an ATI Radeon HD2400PRO.

feldon34 · 11-19-2008, 08:58 AM

Just added them. I need to go through and update the list.

cjmaddy · 11-19-2008, 09:19 AM

If you are updating that list, you could now add my nVidia GeForce 7900GS Dual DVI.

feldon34 · 11-19-2008, 11:34 AM

Added as 7900.

The idea is there shouldn't be any cards released in the last 5 years that can't run the Aquarium. The list is really more exclusive (telling people which cards might not work) than inclusive (listing every good card). But I'll keep it updated as people make suggestions.

10-15-2008, 07:22 AM	#1
pvernam wobbegong Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Nahant, MA Posts: 37	ATI graphics and dual monitors This is a (much edited) re-post of what I had originally posted to the "apparent conflict with Display Fusion" thread. Since I believe that I have exonerated that program (by reproducing the problem on a machine on which it has never been installed), I am now starting this (more appropriately named) thread. feldon32 has said that he would lock that other thread (which had gotten way off track anyway). I had said that Marine Aquarium 3beta1 works fine on this configuration: OS: Windows XP MCE 2005 SP3 Hardware: E6600, 2GB RAM, ASUS P5B-E Graphics: ATI Radeon HD3450 512MB PCIe, Catalyst 8.9 Monitor: ASUS MW221U 22" LCD at 1680x1050x32 and that MA3b1 also works on this configuration, except that problems occur when it stops: OS: Windows XP MCE 2005 SP3 Hardware: E6700, 2GB RAM, ASUS P5K-E Graphics: ATI Radeon HD2600XT 256MB PCIe, Catalyst 8.9 Monitor 1: Mitsubishi LT52144 52" LCD HDTV at 1920x1080x32 Monitor 2: Digitech 7" LCD at 848x480x32 (built-in to front of Zalman HTPC case) MA3b1 will start up and run fine for hours but, when I stop it, Windows Explorer dies ("Windows Explorer has encountered a problem and needs to close.") and the system becomes completely locked up (the Start menu doesn't work and clicking on desktop icons does nothing). About the only thing I can do is Ctrl-Alt-Delete to Restart Windows. I began to suspect the dual-monitor setup as the source of the problem, so I connected a second monitor to the first machine listed above (the E6600/HD3450 one), which had never had a problem after stopping MA3b1 at least two dozen times. This second monitor is a Hanns-G JW-199DPB 19" LCD (native 1440x900), which had worked fine with MA3b1 when attached to yet another machine (an older one with a P4EE and ATI AIW 9600XT). I immediately had the same problem (Windows lock-up after stopping MA3b1). I tried many different display settings (in both Windows and in MA3b1) with no change in the behavior: - different resolution for each monitor (1680x1050x32 and 1440x900x32, their native resolutions) - the same resolution for both monitors (1440x900x32) - "Display screen saver on this monitor" set for both monitors - "Display nothing on this monitor" set for the secondary monitor - "Render same image on all monitors" checked and unchecked Actually, very rarely (less than 5% of the time) MA3b1 would stop with no error at all, and once I got a "MarineAquarium3 has encountered a problem and needs to close." error dialog (with no Windows lock-up). But every other time I stop MA3b1 I get the "Windows Explorer has encountered a problem and needs to close." dialog and have to reboot. When I disconnect the second monitor (and reboot), MA3b1 behaves normally again (stops with no problems). I suppose my problem could be caused by an ATI driver issue (I'm using the latest available: Catalyst 8.9), which I imagine would make it a lot tougher (impossible?) for Jim to resolve. I've only seen one post in this forum regarding success with dual monitors (cjmaddy's "Drop in FPS with dual monitors..."), and I'm guessing he's using an nVidia card and driver. (My FPS dropped as well (from ~111 to ~85) when both monitors were not set at the same resolution.) Is anyone having success with dual monitors attached to an ATI card?

10-15-2008, 07:36 AM	#2
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	He does indeed use a nVidia card. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-15-2008, 08:41 AM	#4
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	We got tons of bandwidth, and this is the way you learn. No one knows anything until they learn it the first time. We just crossed one problem off the list, so no worries. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-15-2008, 10:10 AM	#5
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	In-house early testing with dial monitors showed ATI to be far more problemtic than nVidia, but some cards do work. In my Frankenstein machine, I've got a PCI nVidia card, and an AGP ATI card, each running its own monitor fairly well. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-15-2008, 03:04 PM	#7
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Thanks for the info. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-15-2008, 08:36 AM	#3
pvernam wobbegong Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Nahant, MA Posts: 37	Originally posted by pvernam: I suppose my problem could be caused by an ATI driver issue ... I'm now pretty certain my problem is not caused by MA3, but is in fact an ATI driver issue. It occurred to me to try another screensaver (Microsoft's own 3D Text) while I had two monitors connected to the HD3450 card, and I got the same (unhappy) result. So, I guess MA3 is off the hook. (Sorry for wasting your bandwidth.)

10-15-2008, 11:31 AM	#6
DaleArden carbon based unit Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 24	Just for the sake of the info , I've been able to get MA3 to run just fine on my laptop using it's own screen at 1280x800 as monitor 1 and a regular television through s-video at lower resolutions suitable for such a device , as monitor 2 . This is with ATi Radeon Xpress 200M and the latest driver . Running Windows XP Home SP3 . AMD Sempron Mobile 3300+ processor . Compaq V5000 .

11-18-2008, 05:59 PM	#8
pvernam wobbegong Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Nahant, MA Posts: 37	problem fixed I tried running beta 6 on my dual-monitor machine that was having this problem, and I couldn't get Windows to hang when stopping MA3 (even after MA3 had run for ~30 minutes). It seems like the problem has been fixed, either by Jim or by updated ATI drivers (I'm currently running Catalyst 8.10, will install 8.11 tonight and try again).

11-19-2008, 08:40 AM	#9
pvernam wobbegong Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Nahant, MA Posts: 37	problem still fixed! I updated my ATI graphics drivers to Catalyst 8.11 and left MA3 beta 7 running overnight. No problems on any of my systems, including my dual-monitor XP MCE system that used to get hung when stopping MA3. Yea! Also, back on 10/13 (in the thread "apparent conflict with Display Fusion"), I had reported that the MA3 beta works fine on these ATI graphics cards: ATI Radeon HD2600XT ATI Radeon HD3450 But the list of tested graphics cards in the "Marine Aquarium 3 Beta RELEASE & DOWNLOAD" thread has not been updated to include these. Should it be? (These two are not among those for which testing was requested, but they are also not in the tested list, so I figure this info might be of use to somebody who didn't happen to read that (obsolete and closed) thread.) And I have since found that MA3 also works fine on an ATI Radeon HD2400PRO.

11-19-2008, 08:58 AM	#10
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Just added them. I need to go through and update the list. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-19-2008, 09:19 AM	#11
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	If you are updating that list, you could now add my nVidia GeForce 7900GS Dual DVI.

11-19-2008, 11:34 AM	#12
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Added as 7900. The idea is there shouldn't be any cards released in the last 5 years that can't run the Aquarium. The list is really more exclusive (telling people which cards might not work) than inclusive (listing every good card). But I'll keep it updated as people make suggestions. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman