Bug: Unconfirmed Could not find any compatible Direct3D Devices - Page 3

Dale · 02-03-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Unless they are trivial things to fix, hold off for now. I'm totally swamped.

OK, I'll hold it. It's related to this topic, so please do a couple of things:

1. Change this topic to "confirmed bug".

2. Let me know just before you start thinking about this topic, because the other issue is somewhat related.

[I will try to refine this issue, also, if I can dig up more hardware that helps]

feldon34 · 02-03-2009, 11:36 AM

Is it really a bug if the graphics card has insufficient VRAM to run in 24-bit?

I have not followed the thread in detail btw.

Dale · 02-03-2009, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by feldon32:

Is it really a bug if the graphics card has insufficient VRAM to run in 24-bit?

I have not followed the thread in detail btw.

In my opinion, it's a bug if
(1) MA3 knows there will be a problem.
(2) MA3 runs, regardless of that knowledge, AND
(3) MA3 therefore crashes.

Dale · 02-04-2009, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by feldon32:

Is it really a bug if the graphics card has insufficient VRAM to run in 24-bit?

I have not followed the thread in detail btw.

Related observation: The PC referred to in this thread, so far, has 32MB VRAM, and maximum color depth of 24-bit.

I just installed MA3 on another "wimpy" PC with an Nvidia video card that has 32MB, but 32-bit color depth. MA3 runs fine at 1024x768, 32-bit. (About 18 fps at 32-bit and about 30 fps at 16-bit, P3-840).

So, it's not the "32MB VRAM".

Jim Sachs · 02-04-2009, 10:28 PM

It's not the lack of VRAM, it's the fact that it can't do Shaders.

Although VRAM may become a problem on low-end cards as I add more creatures and objects.

Dale · 02-04-2009, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

It's not the lack of VRAM, it's the fact that it can't do Shaders.

Although VRAM may become a problem on low-end cards as I add more creatures and objects.

Are you indicating that the Intel 82810 can't do Shaders in 24-bit color depth, but can do Shaders in 16-bit depth?

Jim Sachs · 02-04-2009, 11:13 PM

The chip can't do them at all. The drivers must be trying to emulate them, and apparently not so successfully in 24-bit.

Anyway, I won't be spending any time chasing this. MA2.6 remains the Aquarium-of-choice for lesser equipment. The whole reason for MA3's existence is to take advantage of hardware improvements over the last 9 years.

Nicki · 02-05-2009, 09:38 AM

There's always the option of installing a new video card , if like me you had a desktop with very poor graphics . Maybe not an option if you own a number of older machines (the expense might not be worth it) , or you have a laptop of course . For me it was a simple and cost effective way to enjoy not only MA3 but a better performing system overall . There may be a few prospective customers who feel the same .

Dale · 02-05-2009, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

The chip can't do them at all. The drivers must be trying to emulate them, and apparently not so successfully in 24-bit.

Anyway, I won't be spending any time chasing this. MA2.6 remains the Aquarium-of-choice for lesser equipment. The whole reason for MA3's existence is to take advantage of hardware improvements over the last 9 years.

I never suggested that you should spend any time at all, trying to make MA3 work with older hardware.

My suggestion was/is intended to assure that MA3 does not CRASH when confronted with older hardware or drivers that don't meet MA3 requirements.

Of course, this isn't as important as the simulation. But I think crashes are worth chasing at some point.

02-03-2009, 11:36 AM	#42
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Is it really a bug if the graphics card has insufficient VRAM to run in 24-bit? I have not followed the thread in detail btw. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

02-04-2009, 10:28 PM	#45
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	It's not the lack of VRAM, it's the fact that it can't do Shaders. Although VRAM may become a problem on low-end cards as I add more creatures and objects. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-04-2009, 11:13 PM	#47
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	The chip can't do them at all. The drivers must be trying to emulate them, and apparently not so successfully in 24-bit. Anyway, I won't be spending any time chasing this. MA2.6 remains the Aquarium-of-choice for lesser equipment. The whole reason for MA3's existence is to take advantage of hardware improvements over the last 9 years. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-05-2009, 09:38 AM	#48
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	There's always the option of installing a new video card , if like me you had a desktop with very poor graphics . Maybe not an option if you own a number of older machines (the expense might not be worth it) , or you have a laptop of course . For me it was a simple and cost effective way to enjoy not only MA3 but a better performing system overall . There may be a few prospective customers who feel the same . Run you clever boy. And remember...

02-03-2009, 11:06 AM	#41
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Unless they are trivial things to fix, hold off for now. I'm totally swamped. OK, I'll hold it. It's related to this topic, so please do a couple of things: 1. Change this topic to "confirmed bug". 2. Let me know just before you start thinking about this topic, because the other issue is somewhat related. [I will try to refine this issue, also, if I can dig up more hardware that helps]

02-03-2009, 01:46 PM	#43
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon32: Is it really a bug if the graphics card has insufficient VRAM to run in 24-bit? I have not followed the thread in detail btw. In my opinion, it's a bug if (1) MA3 knows there will be a problem. (2) MA3 runs, regardless of that knowledge, AND (3) MA3 therefore crashes.

02-04-2009, 10:10 PM	#44
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon32: Is it really a bug if the graphics card has insufficient VRAM to run in 24-bit? I have not followed the thread in detail btw. Related observation: The PC referred to in this thread, so far, has 32MB VRAM, and maximum color depth of 24-bit. I just installed MA3 on another "wimpy" PC with an Nvidia video card that has 32MB, but 32-bit color depth. MA3 runs fine at 1024x768, 32-bit. (About 18 fps at 32-bit and about 30 fps at 16-bit, P3-840). So, it's not the "32MB VRAM".

02-04-2009, 10:43 PM	#46
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: It's not the lack of VRAM, it's the fact that it can't do Shaders. Although VRAM may become a problem on low-end cards as I add more creatures and objects. Are you indicating that the Intel 82810 can't do Shaders in 24-bit color depth, but can do Shaders in 16-bit depth?

02-05-2009, 09:40 AM	#49
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: The chip can't do them at all. The drivers must be trying to emulate them, and apparently not so successfully in 24-bit. Anyway, I won't be spending any time chasing this. MA2.6 remains the Aquarium-of-choice for lesser equipment. The whole reason for MA3's existence is to take advantage of hardware improvements over the last 9 years. I never suggested that you should spend any time at all, trying to make MA3 work with older hardware. My suggestion was/is intended to assure that MA3 does not *CRASH* when confronted with older hardware or drivers that don't meet MA3 requirements. Of course, this isn't as important as the simulation. But I think crashes are worth chasing at some point.