New Fish Models - Page 5

Dale · 02-09-2010, 12:53 PM

OK, well I was trying to be gentle and courteous, but:

Originally posted by feldon33:

After 9 years, which is most likely?

A) It is impossible for a creative team built on mutual respect to produce a great product
B) Jim has simply had rotten luck in the teams he's been involved in.

And to Dale, I suggest looking at the best games released in the last 5 years. They are photorealistic, with incredible lifelike animation, motion, lighting. They are almost indistinguishable from film. Today's computers can handle anything we want to throw at them.

Jim has (I believe) made it very clear that he is unwilling to do it any way other than alone. That is his right as the artist/developer. So, there's at least one more possibility:

C) Jim can't do it.

Which is why I asked the questions I asked. I apologize if this way of asking it is offensive to some - I did not intend it to be, and in particular, I have no intention to offend Jim.

feldon34 · 02-09-2010, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Vinz Clortho:

Hi everybody.

So, one way to move forward (possibly), is to sacrifice compatibility with older computers and raise the system requirements to something like 2 GHz processor, 128MB graphics, 1GB RAM? Just a thought, and might not be part of the vision of Mr Sachs.

I may have missed where Jim said that hardware limitations were becoming an issue. My understanding was it was the collision avoidance/prediction which is pretty much a freebie in all modern game development packages.

Jim has been burned so many times he's not willing to take the chance.

Jim Sachs · 02-09-2010, 03:39 PM

Vinz - Yes, MA3 already has higher system requirements than MA2.6. Even though they are only slightly higher, you'd be surprised at how much flak I get from people with older computers. The thing is, it's got to run on MY computer, or I can't even develop it. My computer won't run most of the new crop of screensavers, and those RPG games are right out!

harris · 02-09-2010, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

"Each group battles for power, and is frustrated by the stupidity of the other, so very little real comm(un)ication takes place. Ony when the two types live in the same brain do they respect each other enough to accomplish much."

Excellent phrase, be quick and get it copyrighted before someone else uses it!

Hang in there Jim, we are all hoping you get a "ah, is that all it was!!!" moment soon.

Jim Sachs · 02-09-2010, 07:24 PM

Doh! It would have been so much more effective without the mis-spelling. I went back and fixed it. Thanks for the encouragement, Harris.

I can't talk about some of the things that are going on, because they are not MA-specific. (Although much of it has a lot to do with the reason that MA exists at all.)

Nicki · 02-09-2010, 08:08 PM

Hmmm, part of the grand plan, eh? MA3 being a step on the ladder towards... and after the success of Avatar . Well, maybe I will just shut up for now.

Ralph · 02-09-2010, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I can't talk about some of the things that are going on, because they are not MA-specific. (Although much of it has a lot to do with the reason that MA exists at all.)

A new thing to speculate on... The first of "twenty questions".. Will the forum members benefit from this??

Jim Sachs · 02-09-2010, 08:52 PM

Only by allowing them to say, "I knew him when he was just writing that little Aquarium program!"

Nicki · 02-09-2010, 08:52 PM

Edit: Jim posted while I was posting. So, no point for my post. Yeah, I know what you're all thinking

Ralph · 02-09-2010, 09:37 PM

No news there... I already say that..

The Old Man · 02-10-2010, 05:10 AM

Agreed, there can be no doubt you are the master of digital Aquarium's, but you seem to be stuck in a rut!

I think you must have had a bad experience with development teams in the past which is a great shame. Also letting people who refuse to update their age old computers hold this project back is absolutely terrible. Screw 'em, its outrageous that they can effectively hold you to ransom and they have absolutely no right whatsoever to be demanding compatibility! Can you imagine Modern Warfare 2 being developed for people still running 10-15yr old PC's and how it would look, never mind how long it would take to develop?

A small, carefully select team with clearly defined goals would help this project move along in the manner it deserves. I'd pay double the price for the full finished product, especially if it made proper use of modern PC hardware.

cjmaddy · 02-10-2010, 09:02 AM

I don't somehow think that Jim wants to cater for only the gaming market, with their super high-spec machines. What would the total sales result in being for such an approach? - I should think they would be only a fraction of the global potential of aiming for the mass market, of the average PC in use world wide. - What IS outrageous, is gamers thinking that they are the norm!

Stick at it , Jim. - I know you will get there in the end. - You can always pop down that rabbit hole, for a little respite!

jleslie · 02-11-2010, 07:24 AM

For mass market graphics apps you probably need to at least support Intel chipset graphics 2 generations prior to current to avoid losing a lot of sales. Of course most games have adjustments to make things look nicer if you have better hardware.

John

02-09-2010, 02:14 PM	#82
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Vinz Clortho: Hi everybody. So, one way to move forward (possibly), is to sacrifice compatibility with older computers and raise the system requirements to something like 2 GHz processor, 128MB graphics, 1GB RAM? Just a thought, and might not be part of the vision of Mr Sachs. I may have missed where Jim said that hardware limitations were becoming an issue. My understanding was it was the collision avoidance/prediction which is pretty much a freebie in all modern game development packages. Jim has been burned so many times he's not willing to take the chance. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

02-09-2010, 03:39 PM	#83
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Vinz - Yes, MA3 already has higher system requirements than MA2.6. Even though they are only slightly higher, you'd be surprised at how much flak I get from people with older computers. The thing is, it's got to run on MY computer, or I can't even develop it. My computer won't run most of the new crop of screensavers, and those RPG games are right out! Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-09-2010, 07:24 PM	#85
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Doh! It would have been so much more effective without the mis-spelling. I went back and fixed it. Thanks for the encouragement, Harris. I can't talk about some of the things that are going on, because they are not MA-specific. (Although much of it has a lot to do with the reason that MA exists at all.) Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-09-2010, 08:08 PM	#86
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	Hmmm, part of the grand plan, eh? MA3 being a step on the ladder towards... and after the success of Avatar . Well, maybe I will just shut up for now. Run you clever boy. And remember...

02-09-2010, 08:52 PM	#88
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Only by allowing them to say, "I knew him when he was just writing that little Aquarium program!" Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-09-2010, 12:53 PM	#81
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	OK, well I was trying to be gentle and courteous, but: Originally posted by feldon33: After 9 years, which is most likely? A) It is impossible for a creative team built on mutual respect to produce a great product B) Jim has simply had rotten luck in the teams he's been involved in. And to Dale, I suggest looking at the best games released in the last 5 years. They are photorealistic, with incredible lifelike animation, motion, lighting. They are almost indistinguishable from film. Today's computers can handle anything we want to throw at them. Jim has (I believe) made it very clear that he is unwilling to do it any way other than alone. That is his right as the artist/developer. So, there's at least one more possibility: C) Jim can't do it. Which is why I asked the questions I asked. I apologize if this way of asking it is offensive to some - I did not intend it to be, and in particular, I have no intention to offend Jim.

02-09-2010, 04:55 PM	#84
harris Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 122	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: "Each group battles for power, and is frustrated by the stupidity of the other, so very little real comm(un)ication takes place. Ony when the two types live in the same brain do they respect each other enough to accomplish much." Excellent phrase, be quick and get it copyrighted before someone else uses it! Hang in there Jim, we are all hoping you get a "ah, is that all it was!!!" moment soon.

02-09-2010, 08:39 PM	#87
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I can't talk about some of the things that are going on, because they are not MA-specific. (Although much of it has a lot to do with the reason that MA exists at all.) A new thing to speculate on... The first of "twenty questions".. Will the forum members benefit from this??

02-09-2010, 09:37 PM	#90
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	No news there... I already say that..

02-10-2010, 05:10 AM	#91
The Old Man Registered Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 33	Agreed, there can be no doubt you are the master of digital Aquarium's, but you seem to be stuck in a rut! I think you must have had a bad experience with development teams in the past which is a great shame. Also letting people who refuse to update their age old computers hold this project back is absolutely terrible. Screw 'em, its outrageous that they can effectively hold you to ransom and they have absolutely no right whatsoever to be demanding compatibility! Can you imagine Modern Warfare 2 being developed for people still running 10-15yr old PC's and how it would look, never mind how long it would take to develop? A small, carefully select team with clearly defined goals would help this project move along in the manner it deserves. I'd pay double the price for the full finished product, especially if it made proper use of modern PC hardware. Bought MA3 Beta on previously for Vista and now running it on Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit with an Nvidia GTX650Ti powering a 22" monitor and it's stunning!

02-10-2010, 09:02 AM	#92
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	I don't somehow think that Jim wants to cater for only the gaming market, with their super high-spec machines. What would the total sales result in being for such an approach? - I should think they would be only a fraction of the global potential of aiming for the mass market, of the average PC in use world wide. - What IS outrageous, is gamers thinking that they are the norm! Stick at it , Jim. - I know you will get there in the end. - You can always pop down that rabbit hole, for a little respite!

02-11-2010, 07:24 AM	#93
jleslie Engineer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,279	For mass market graphics apps you probably need to at least support Intel chipset graphics 2 generations prior to current to avoid losing a lot of sales. Of course most games have adjustments to make things look nicer if you have better hardware. John