The "C" Key - Suggested change in behavior.

Dale · 05-16-2010, 11:10 AM

The "C" key (and Shift-C) are currently documented as Clock (show for 10 sec) and (Hold).

However, that doesn't currently work if "Show Crystal" is disabled in the Program settings.

I suggest that it would be more useful (and consistent with documentation) if the "C" key turned on the crystal and clock for 10 seconds. And if Shift-C turned on the crystal and clock for the current duration (how "hold" now works).

Added footnote: please do not "save" the "show crystal" setting, based on these keys.

Jim Sachs · 05-16-2010, 12:10 PM

That's not so easy. Currently, the Settings screen is used to change the state of the crystal. The whole program is put into suspended animation when the Settings box is up, then the entire 3D world is destroyed and rebuilt when the user hits OK, using a new list of objects. Different objects are constructed around the area of the crystal, depending on whether the crystal is showing or not. Attempting to change these on the fly could have ugly repercussions.

Dale · 05-16-2010, 12:55 PM

OK. I suggested showing the crystal because I thought that might be easier.

So, just show the clock (without the crystal).

Jim Sachs · 05-16-2010, 01:30 PM

Huh?

Dale · 05-16-2010, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Huh?

What was unclear?

Originally posted by Dale:

Just show the clock (without the crystal).

Is it technically impossible to paste the clock on top of something other than the crystal? It appeared to me that the crystal is a separate object from the clocks, calendar, logos, etc.

It shouldn't bother anybody if fish happen to swim through, or in front of, the clock. So, collision avoidance isn't an issue.

Colors of the clock and background are now user-selectable, so if somebody can't see the clock (because of color contrast), they can fix that.

Jim Sachs · 05-16-2010, 02:22 PM

No, the clock is meant to go on the crystal. I won't have the numbers just hanging in space.

Dale · 05-16-2010, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

No, the clock is meant to go on the crystal. I won't have the numbers just hanging in space.

OK, you're in charge of that.

Let me restate the problem:

In some circumstances, the C key (and Shift-C) do not do anything.

But the documentation ("About" panel) says those keys do something.

I noticed that something should be done to resolve that problem. I apologize for suggesting how to fix it.

feldon34 · 05-16-2010, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

The "C" key (and Shift-C) are currently documented as Clock (show for 10 sec) and (Hold).

However, that doesn't currently work if "Show Crystal" is disabled in the Program settings.

Most users aren't even aware of the keyboard shortcuts and just let the Aquarium run at default settings. Most users have never even seen the Settings panel.

I suppose a message could be displayed in white text when the user presses C and the Crystal is hidden "Please enable the Crystal feature if you wish to display the clock."

But then we would get 4-5 tech support e-mails a month asking how to avoid getting this message and 1-2 asking how to enable the Crystal feature.

Dale · 05-16-2010, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by feldon34:

Most users aren't even aware of the keyboard shortcuts and just let the Aquarium run at default settings. Most users have never even seen the Settings panel.

I suppose a message could be displayed in white text when the user presses C and the Crystal is hidden "Please enable the Crystal feature if you wish to display the clock."

But then we would get 4-5 tech support e-mails a month asking how to avoid getting this message and 1-2 asking how to enable the Crystal feature.

I'm not sure whether you're saying:

"It's too tough to fix"; or

"Just forget about it"; or ???

============

Tech support email: "It used to play music, and now it doesn't - how do I fix that?" [user pressed the M key]

Tech support email: "I'm suddenly getting this frying sound when it runs - how do I fix that?" ...

"It suddenly quit moving, and I can't see the crystal any more..."

Jim Sachs · 05-16-2010, 03:52 PM

You don't need to tell Morgan about Tech Support - he's been handling it lately.

Dale · 05-16-2010, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

You don't need to tell Morgan about Tech Support - he's been handling it lately.

Of course I wouldn't do that. And I didn't perceive that he was complaining about the heavy burden of 5-7 tech support emails per month.

I was (and am) just not sure what he was suggesting, as a solution. Perhaps he'll explain.

feldon34 · 05-16-2010, 11:42 PM

I'm suggesting that there is no need for a solution.

The type of user who will go to the trouble to learn the keyboard shortcuts can figure out that the reason the clock isn't displaying is because the crystal isn't there.

And as you probably gathered from Jim's post, I've taken up handling some of the tech support e-mails destined for serenescreen.com now. Lost keycodes, installation help, etc. So if anyone has a lost keycode problem shoot me a PM.

Thus far, I haven't seen any of the types of tech support e-mails you are suggesting we should be seeing.

JohnWho · 05-17-2010, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by feldon34:

I'm suggesting that there is no need for a solution.

The type of user who will go to the trouble to learn the keyboard shortcuts can figure out that the reason the clock isn't displaying is because the crystal isn't there.

On the "Clock and Logo" page, adding a simple line that says "Shows on crystal when crystal is displayed", or something similar resolves this minor issue, IMO. While one would think folks should realize that the clocks, calendar, logos, images, etc. only display when the crystal is enabled, sometimes it doesn't hurt to be more specific.

It does appear, however, that this is not a problem in the "real world". Adding that line would be simply a minor "cleaning up" thing.

+ 2 cents

Dale · 05-17-2010, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by feldon34:

I'm suggesting that there is no need for a solution.

The type of user who will go to the trouble to learn the keyboard shortcuts can figure out that the reason the clock isn't displaying is because the crystal isn't there.

OK, I was just pointing out that the behavior of the C key doesn't always match the brief statement in the "About" panel.

It seems like that's near-impossible to fix, and if it's not a significant problem for tech support, then "problem resolved."

Originally posted by feldon34:

And as you probably gathered from Jim's post, I've taken up handling some of the tech support e-mails destined for serenescreen.com now.

Cool! and Congratulations!

I'm sure you will remember that I've sometimes posted the thought that better, generally-available documentation would be helpful for users, and reduce tech support workload.

And I'm sure you will remember the usual reaction.

henemly · 05-17-2010, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I won't have the numbers just hanging in space.

Dale · 05-17-2010, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I won't have the numbers just hanging in space.

[Don't take this seriously...]
... but the fish....
How about "floating, but anchored to the bottom"?
Oh, perhaps we can have some realistic "number movement"...

[Sorry]

05-16-2010, 11:10 AM	#1
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	The "C" Key - Suggested change in behavior. The "C" key (and Shift-C) are currently documented as Clock (show for 10 sec) and (Hold). However, that doesn't currently work if "Show Crystal" is disabled in the Program settings. I suggest that it would be more useful (and consistent with documentation) if the "C" key turned on the crystal and clock for 10 seconds. And if Shift-C turned on the crystal and clock for the current duration (how "hold" now works). Added footnote: please do not "save" the "show crystal" setting, based on these keys.

05-16-2010, 12:10 PM	#2
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	That's not so easy. Currently, the Settings screen is used to change the state of the crystal. The whole program is put into suspended animation when the Settings box is up, then the entire 3D world is destroyed and rebuilt when the user hits OK, using a new list of objects. Different objects are constructed around the area of the crystal, depending on whether the crystal is showing or not. Attempting to change these on the fly could have ugly repercussions. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-16-2010, 01:30 PM	#4
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Huh? Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-16-2010, 02:22 PM	#6
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	No, the clock is meant to go on the crystal. I won't have the numbers just hanging in space. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-16-2010, 03:23 PM	#8
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Dale: The "C" key (and Shift-C) are currently documented as Clock (show for 10 sec) and (Hold). However, that doesn't currently work if "Show Crystal" is disabled in the Program settings. Most users aren't even aware of the keyboard shortcuts and just let the Aquarium run at default settings. Most users have never even seen the Settings panel. I suppose a message could be displayed in white text when the user presses C and the Crystal is hidden "Please enable the Crystal feature if you wish to display the clock." But then we would get 4-5 tech support e-mails a month asking how to avoid getting this message and 1-2 asking how to enable the Crystal feature. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

05-16-2010, 12:55 PM	#3
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	OK. I suggested showing the crystal because I thought that might be easier. So, just show the clock (without the crystal).

05-16-2010, 01:57 PM	#5
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Huh? What was unclear? Originally posted by Dale: Just show the clock (without the crystal). Is it technically impossible to paste the clock on top of something other than the crystal? It appeared to me that the crystal is a separate object from the clocks, calendar, logos, etc. It shouldn't bother anybody if fish happen to swim through, or in front of, the clock. So, collision avoidance isn't an issue. Colors of the clock and background are now user-selectable, so if somebody can't see the clock (because of color contrast), they can fix that.

05-16-2010, 03:13 PM	#7
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: No, the clock is meant to go on the crystal. I won't have the numbers just hanging in space. OK, you're in charge of that. Let me restate the problem: In some circumstances, the C key (and Shift-C) do not do anything. But the documentation ("About" panel) says those keys do something. I noticed that something should be done to resolve that problem. I apologize for suggesting how to fix it.

05-16-2010, 03:31 PM	#9
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon34: Most users aren't even aware of the keyboard shortcuts and just let the Aquarium run at default settings. Most users have never even seen the Settings panel. I suppose a message could be displayed in white text when the user presses C and the Crystal is hidden "Please enable the Crystal feature if you wish to display the clock." But then we would get 4-5 tech support e-mails a month asking how to avoid getting this message and 1-2 asking how to enable the Crystal feature. I'm not sure whether you're saying: "It's too tough to fix"; or "Just forget about it"; or ??? ============ Tech support email: "It used to play music, and now it doesn't - how do I fix that?" [user pressed the M key] Tech support email: "I'm suddenly getting this frying sound when it runs - how do I fix that?" ... "It suddenly quit moving, and I can't see the crystal any more..."

05-16-2010, 03:52 PM	#10
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	You don't need to tell Morgan about Tech Support - he's been handling it lately. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-16-2010, 04:06 PM	#11
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: You don't need to tell Morgan about Tech Support - he's been handling it lately. Of course I wouldn't do that. And I didn't perceive that he was complaining about the heavy burden of 5-7 tech support emails per month. I was (and am) just not sure what he was suggesting, as a solution. Perhaps he'll explain. Last edited by Dale; 05-16-2010 at 06:43 PM.

05-16-2010, 11:42 PM	#12
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	I'm suggesting that there is no need for a solution. The type of user who will go to the trouble to learn the keyboard shortcuts can figure out that the reason the clock isn't displaying is because the crystal isn't there. And as you probably gathered from Jim's post, I've taken up handling some of the tech support e-mails destined for serenescreen.com now. Lost keycodes, installation help, etc. So if anyone has a lost keycode problem shoot me a PM. Thus far, I haven't seen any of the types of tech support e-mails you are suggesting we should be seeing. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

05-17-2010, 06:55 AM	#13
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by feldon34: I'm suggesting that there is no need for a solution. The type of user who will go to the trouble to learn the keyboard shortcuts can figure out that the reason the clock isn't displaying is because the crystal isn't there. On the "Clock and Logo" page, adding a simple line that says "Shows on crystal when crystal is displayed", or something similar resolves this minor issue, IMO. While one would think folks should realize that the clocks, calendar, logos, images, etc. only display when the crystal is enabled, sometimes it doesn't hurt to be more specific. It does appear, however, that this is not a problem in the "real world". Adding that line would be simply a minor "cleaning up" thing. + 2 cents

05-17-2010, 02:42 PM	#14
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon34: I'm suggesting that there is no need for a solution. The type of user who will go to the trouble to learn the keyboard shortcuts can figure out that the reason the clock isn't displaying is because the crystal isn't there. OK, I was just pointing out that the behavior of the C key doesn't always match the brief statement in the "About" panel. It seems like that's near-impossible to fix, and if it's not a significant problem for tech support, then "problem resolved." Originally posted by feldon34: And as you probably gathered from Jim's post, I've taken up handling some of the tech support e-mails destined for serenescreen.com now. Cool! and Congratulations! I'm sure you will remember that I've sometimes posted the thought that better, generally-available documentation would be helpful for users, and reduce tech support workload. And I'm sure you will remember the usual reaction.

05-17-2010, 03:41 PM	#15
henemly asdf Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hiko, CommieFagnia Posts: 278	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I won't have the numbers just hanging in space.

05-17-2010, 04:03 PM	#16
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I won't have the numbers just hanging in space. [Don't take this seriously...] ... but the fish.... How about "floating, but anchored to the bottom"? Oh, perhaps we can have some realistic "number movement"... [Sorry]