Where is the 3D background

[Falz]

The goldfish are great, the thing I like about the GA tank is there is just more stuff in it. The individual artwork might not be the best, but there's a rock, there's moving plants, there's pebbles, there are random bubbles and the nicest touch is the floating debris. So it's much more "alive" than a background which just sits there and hasn't looked any different for 4 years. And since there is more there, there is more for the fish to interact with (swim in front of and behind etc). They're not just swimming left and right in front of a static background.

None of the demos I mentioned will run on anything less than A Geforce FX card, since they require all the fancy pixel shaders and stuff. First time I saw Dawn though, it blew me away. I'm sure Naula is even better, but I don't have a 6800 to see it.

[cjmaddy]

Originally posted by Falz
The goldfish are great, the thing I like about the GA tank is there is just more stuff in it. .......

True, but to me that's the problem. - What we want, (correction, what I want!), is quality, not quantity!
I think we will have to agree to differ.

[Jim Sachs]

Anyone who wants floating debris better stick with AquaReal. I won't be putting any of that in my tanks. Like most people who own aquariums, it just means one thing to me -- a dirty tank. People spend a lot of money on filters and protien skimmers to keep their water crystal clear.

[James]

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
Anyone who wants floating debris better stick with AquaReal. I won't be putting any of that in my tanks. Like most people who own aquariums, it just means one thing to me -- a dirty tank. People spend a lot of money on filters and protien skimmers to keep their water crystal clear.

Correction Jim, Aqua Real doesn't have any debris settings, only in the newest Aqua Garden, and yes, you've said many time about " it just means one thing to me -- a dirty tank. People spend a lot of money on filters and protien skimmers to keep their water crystal clear.". I totally agree with you, but sometimes it impossible to make a pure crystal clear tank even you go tbest water, fish poo and food debris will give messing up the tank, but as little as 10 debris floating around would make the realism of a virtual tank.

I'm not sure if I should mention this here, but VR Team once think to add the function of growing algae on glass if left your tank too long not caring it, and of course you're able to define the amount of algae and its growing rate, and there're a little magnetic tool for you to clean it(you can even draw things while you clean, oh well, that's really a dirty tank, like the tank in Finding Nemo with the filter broke down), making more interation of the tank. And after all, you can turn this function completely off if you hate to see a little dirty tank.

What VR Team pursues is realism of a tank, simulating the real situation of a real fish tank, rather than keeping in artistic beauty. I think that's the main difference between what Jim's want and other's want. (As we know Jim is more closely to an Artist than a 3D programmer.)

Neverthenless, if you really like debris in AG, you can adjust its amount and size, or even turn it off so you got a clean tank as you wish! I think the more user definable option the better. Anyway, I still love MA as much as I loved AR and AG!!

[Falz]

Originally posted by cjmaddy
True, but to me that's the problem. - What we want, (correction, what I want!), is quality, not quantity!
I think we will have to agree to differ.

The quality of the GA fish are as good as MA fish and the tank is as good (they're both just digitised photos really, the GA tank just has additional plants and stuff), so how can you say the GA doesn't have quality?

It surprises me sometimes the bashing that goes on towards the GA and people who like the GA (usually an attack made to "defend" Jim, which he doesn't even need, but it's an attack all the same).

Do you realise these guys share a board and that the GA author is an artist just like Jim? Maybe this is why the GA author doesn't hang around much on the board.

[Jim Sachs]

My buddy Eric doesn't hang around much because he's busy with his day job. He's on a prolonged assignment to Hong Kong.

[cjmaddy]

Falz,

You really should check back on what has been said on these forums over the years.

The quality of the GA fish are as good as MA fish and the tank is as good (they're both just digitised photos really, the GA tank just has additional plants and stuff), so how can you say the GA doesn't have quality?

I've already agreed with you about the GA fish. - As regards GA plants vs MA coral, - well just look closely!
(..... And I don't think I would call them, 'just digitised photos' )

It surprises me sometimes the bashing that goes on towards the GA and people who like the GA (usually an attack made to "defend" Jim, which he doesn't even need, but it's an attack all the same).

Many of the posters here, have been beta testers for these aquariums, and what we have said at times may sound critical to some. But I would hope that the majority of my comments are considered constructive.

Do you realise these guys share a board and that the GA author is an artist just like Jim? Maybe this is why the GA author doesn't hang around much on the board.

Yes, - I do realise! - And if you will check back to the 'Goldfish is superior to MA!' thread, you will see that in reply to your comments there , I said .....

..... Unfortunately, the MA hasn't come very far despite the fact it's been around for years. It just feels kinda dated now.

WOW!!!!! ..... Where does one start to challenge a statement like that!
If Jim has a fault, - then it's his perfectionism, and therefore the time he takes to achieve his goal. - When I first got his aquarium, back in the autumn of 2001, it was already near perfection. - So how do you improve on that?
I think we will find that the answer to that one will be the scrolling 3D background. - But that won't 'update' it, because it isn't 'dated'. - (Unless you call the Mona Lisa, 'dated'! ) - It will be the next stage in it's development.

The Goldfish aquarium was introduced to most of us at a much earlier stage in it's development, and that has contributed to it's problems, - IMHO!
Don't get me wrong, the fish in the Goldfish aquarium are great! - and the gravel is fine. - But those fuzzy faded plants??? (Some look virtually dead to me!) - And that 'rock' !
To compare those plants and that lump of fibre glass, - with Jim's coral, - is just not on! - IMO!

I too look forward to the time when the MA fish will move around the tank more. - But I find the way the Goldfish currently hog the sides of the tank to be very irritating.

As MM says, they are 'different', ..... but the Goldfish aquarium needs much more work on it. - IMO! ..... Rant over!

.... To which Eric (the GA artist/author ), replied .....

MM took the words right out of my mouth: "...The graphic quality of MA is superior to GA." It's true, dang it. Every time I look at that thing it makes me crazy; I see yet another thing that mine is missing (artistically, not botanically).

I learn more about what I'm doing wrong by looking at what he did right than I do by looking at what I did wrong. If that makes any sense.

CJM, that "rock" (at first) was an attempt to celebrate the "cheesy" decorations we've all had in our fish tanks... it wasn't meant to look real. But the more I looked at the tank, the more I wanted to fix things about it. So now it's kind of a hybrid of ideas, none of them good. So I agree. It's got to go.

Oh, and I agree also about Ginger's tail. I was trying for something there that I didn't quite succeed at. I'll have to make another pass at her in a future version.

I expect to be sort of playing a game of technical (and animational) leapfrog with Jim for a while... but I don't ever expect to be able to leap over him artistically.

Thanks again for all your comments.... I really do appreciate even the critiques.

--Eric

So you see, all is not alway what it seams! ..... Is it?

[Marian Nichols]