Widescreen and Dual Monitors

[ubernoob]

Hey,

The MD version of Marine Aquarium doesn't act as it should on dual output systems (from what I can tell) - Could Sachs or someone read this and get back to me, I wish to invest in the full software but only if I can display it propery on my setup...

Firstly, Marine Aquarium in non wide, on normal screen is beutiful.

The backdrop has no flaws and is designed well for the 4:3 ratio, in sufficiently high resolution.

BUT...

The backdrop on a multi-display setup stretches (yes, even when I tick the widescren box for the extended tank) and things don't look as pin sharp and photoreal as the non MD version -> and I think I know why...

16:9 is NOT the same as two screens put side by side displaying for example 1024x768 on each, ie 2048x768.

If I'm right, the designed backdrop on the program for wide version is not long enough, it's longer than the norm, but not long enough for 2 monitors. Basically Sachs, I'm asking this...

Will you be working the MD version to have a backdrop that is designed thus: 2 x horizontal and 1 x vertical screen mode so that it looks every bit as beutiful as the non MD version on a single monitor.

I hope you catch my drift, and I hope you understand that 16:9 is not the same as two 4:3 screens side by side. If nothing else maybe I've helped a little? Or better still - can you help me?

ubernoob

[ubernoob]

Oh forgot to mention - the map that is over the backdrop for the moving shading is visibly out on the right hand side corals - the two highest bumbs on the right.

Not picking, just trying to help.

[Edgar]

What kind of setup do you have?
The MD version has a factor that can be adjusted to make the aspect ratio of the screensaver correct.

[Jim Sachs]

Uber - yes, I plan a version with a true 3D background that is 2 screens wide, but it's still a long way off. The Freshwater Aquarium will be born with this feature, but that's also a long way off.

[feldon34]

Originally posted by ubernoob
Hey,

The MD version of Marine Aquarium doesn't act as it should on dual output systems (from what I can tell) - Could Sachs or someone read this and get back to me, I wish to invest in the full software but only if I can display it propery on my setup...

The backdrop on a multi-display setup stretches (yes, even when I tick the widescren box for the extended tank) and things don't look as pin sharp and photoreal as the non MD version -> and I think I know why...

16:9 is NOT the same as two screens put side by side displaying for example 1024x768 on each, ie 2048x768.

You are using Windows in an unusual way which most applications do not know how to deal with.

If you run Marine Aquarium 2 MD on a typical setup with two 1024 x 768 displays (instead of Spanning), you will get a properly sized Aquarium on each monitor.

Realize that there are 2 versions of the background artwork -- one is 1024 x 768, the other is 1280x768.

Jim hopes one day to produce a new version of the Aquarium with a large enough background to span 2 monitors.

[ubernoob]

Thanks, think this answers my question.

Now can I be a little critical? Without sounding or intending to be rude in any way.

Firstly, I am not using Windows in an unusual way for multi display at all. Windows management of dual displays is horrible, all card manufacturers know this, and the reason is that windows literally calculates two desktops, and basically, it's programmed that poorly and consumes so much processor time your computer just crawls (that's for spanning under windows control). So the card manufacturers go the easy and very stable way, it's actually the most processor economical way too...they double the width of the desktop (so windows is not calculating for two) and has the graphics card bleed the rest over. Regardless of what the configuration GUI each different manufacturer sends out with their card, this is the same under the hood - this is what's going on. And I gaurantee you (as a head technician at a computer systems company) that 99% of users from Geforce to Radeon to Matrox Parhelia are all using the double desktop width method. It's even been rumoured that microsoft adopt this method of spanning as default in future versions of windows.

As for showing two identicle aquariums in the monitors, it's not what I am looking for at all Feldon, and I doubt anyone is looking at the MD version just to have a mirror of one aquarium in the other? (infact wouldn't the non MD version clone anyway?) I just don't see the point, bessides can you really see users changing their monitor configuration just for a screensaver? Thanks for your input though mate - appreciated it is.

Now, the crittical bit....

You think the title MD is a little wrong considering it isn't fully compatible (without stretching) with multi displays? Maybe the word WIDE, suggesting it's ratio is correct for Widescreen TELEVISIONS?

Anyway - Sachs, looking forward to the proper version so I can return to photorealism again.

Also, if you need any help with a full length aquarium please do let me know, as asside from being a technician, I'm also a graphic designer - you never know.

uberNoOb

[drfish]

As a geek working for a company that has nothing to do with computers, I can say that I've got a dozen dual monitor systems that I've setup and one triple monitor one... I've also setup a system with 5 screens. I've used Matrox, ATI, and Nvidia cards and NONE of them stretch the desktop by default. All screens are treated as a single monitor with individual resolutions and refresh rates. You have to go out of your way to change the computer to use the "stretched" desktop mode... In my experience, additional CPU usage is minimal when using multiple screens, the 5 screen system I setup was a lowly P3 700 with 3 Matrox G450s (one AGP and 2 PCIs) and it worked as fast as it ever did... IMO the streched monitor solution is not a great one simply because then Windows really does think you only have one screen. That is not useful at all for what most people want multiple screens for in the first place (different apps on different screens).

As for the MD version of the aquarium, mirroring the image on each screen is far better than not having anything on it at all. And if you wish you can set the other screens to "blank" and only see the one. And no, the non MD version wouldn't clone so I think MD is a fine title for it.

If you HAVE to stretch the aquarium across two screens, use the widescreen mode, and adjust the aspect ratio until you have vertical black bars on the left and right with the aquarium centered in the middle, it's not perfect, but it's not bad either...

[ubernoob]

Oh no, here we go... lol

Well in my findings and talking with manufacturers or product managers at suppliers, this isn't the case. It's very hard to explain here without starting an argument tbh, but here's a few point...


1. Of course each monitor is treated individually with individual refresh rates and treated as a individual monitors.

2. The 2048x768 (example for 2 x 1024x768 monitors) desktop is handled underneath in the drivers of most cards, like I said - regardless of what you see in your options.

As an example - have windows use it's native multimonitor options and run some 3D apps in the various screens, usually - if you have managed not to use your card manufacturers handling after all - you would see massive degradation in performance. It is acknowledged that windows is plainly garbage at doing this.

I think of all the card manufacturers that do things differently from the rest it's Matrox. Not surprisingly really as they have allways been VERY capable on this front in industrial computing/displays.

The best way to explain or discuss this would be in the workshop really - fancy a trip to the UK? lol

ubernoob

[drfish]

I misunderstood you then, because what you just said is not what I got from your former post...

Also, the VAST majority of video cards do not support 3D acceleration on both monitors, that's a hardware limitation, not a software one.

[feldon34]

Originally posted by ubernoob
As for showing two identicle aquariums in the monitors, it's not what I am looking for at all Feldon, and I doubt anyone is looking at the MD version just to have a mirror of one aquarium in the other?

That's exactly what people have been asking us for. Marine Aquarium 2 MD shows the Aquarium on as many monitors as the customer has installed as long as each monitor is attached to a suitable 3D graphics card. Marine Aquarium 2 MD behaves EXACTLY as requested and as advertised.

Originally posted by ubernoob
(infact wouldn't the non MD version clone anyway?)

Marine Aquarium 2 MD is the first version of the Aquarium to show ANYTHING on monitors other than the primary display card.

Originally posted by ubernoob
I just don't see the point, bessides can you really see users changing their monitor configuration just for a screensaver? Thanks for your input though mate - appreciated it is.

You're welcome to get rude with me, but the bottom line is, 2048 x 768 is an odd resolution and you should not expect ANY application to behave properly at that resolution. I've seen few that do. Windows has been designed to have separate monitors each acting independantly since Windows ME. I have never experienced the CPU problems you mention when I was running 2 separate monitors.

If Jim makes the Aquarium do special tricks on double-width resolutions, then that's great, but you shouldn't feel that you are owed a version of the Aquarium that does this.

Jim intends to create a new background which is compatible with either a regular display, a wide display, or dual displays. There is more than just graphic design involved. If you press the W key, you'll see that there are all kinds of invisible shapes that the fish swim around to avoid swimming through the coral. Positioning and programming these shapes is not trivial.

[Jim Sachs]

Uber - Regarding the "MD" designation -

This was my idea. Prolific was going to call it "HD", but I thought that might give the impression that the resolution was higher than the regular version. I figured that "Multi-Display" would be more appropriate, since the regular and widescreen displays were both included. Also, as Morgan says, this is the first time that any multi-monitor support has been added. All previous versions just picked the primary display device.

[sarasara]

any headway on this endeavour? i am getting dual monitors at work this month and would really love to have the fishys going from screen to screen
as for designation - how about DM..dual monitor
jim i must say i think you are absolutely genius <3

[Jim Sachs]

Which endeavor is that?