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#301 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
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![]() When MA3 with installer version comes, the folder will change again to the installed folder of MA3.
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#302 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
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![]() The other problem that we have to think of is the uninstalling of the screensaver. Just using the User folder makes it more difficult to remove all the files that is created by MA3. Like I said, this will require a deeper study of the situation.
There is also the habit of Windows changing the rules for each new version. That is another headache to think about. ![]() I do not agree that "Just using the User folder makes it more difficult to remove all the files that is created by MA3". It is extremely unwise for an uninstaller to touch files that are in the User folder (generalization, but applicable in most cases). Consider a common situation: Somebody has problems with an application, contacts support (or a friend). Support says "Probably something is corrupted. Uninstall and reinstall". Result: all users lose all personal settings. There is a reason that almost NO APPLICATIONS will uninstall things that are in "user space". So, it's not MORE difficult to uninstall, if you use the User folders. You just do what "everybody else" does, and ignore anything that is in User folders. That makes it EASIER. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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#303 |
Developer
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 9,785
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How 'bout if everyone just clicks the icon and watches the fish?
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Jim Sachs
Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium |
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#304 |
Sugar Plum Fairy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,267
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![]() How 'bout if everyone just clicks the icon and watches the fish?
![]() ![]() All my issues are resolved , so that's what I'm happily doing ![]() On the uninstaller thing though - it really irks me when software leaves its little traces everywhere , especially since I like to make user files im My Documents invisible for the sake of tidyness . But maybe there could be an option to uninstall ( basic ) or uninstall ( all traces ) . That way both needs could be met . |
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#305 |
Forum Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 10,939
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I am assuming the the Marine Aquarium 3 installer application will prompt to install for "All Users" or the "Currently Logged in User" as most installer packages now offer this choice.
Now you cannot assume that the C: drive is the boot drive. Further, you cannot assume that Documents and Settings is the profile folder. From Windows XP Environment Variables: If Marine Aquarium 3 is installed for "All Users" then Logos and Playlist should be stored in the reserved directory %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Application Data\SereneScreen\. C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\SereneScreen\ on most but not all systems. If Marine Aquarium 3 is installed for a specific user and different users will have different logos and music playlists, then Logos and Playlist should be stored in the reserved directory %APPDATA%\SereneScreen\. C:\Documents and Settings\Username\Application Data\SereneScreen\ on most but not all systems. These directories are applicable to 2000, XP, Vista, and Windows 7. The challenges: When you install the Aquarium as All Users, a flag needs to be set somewhere for the Aquarium to look at one registry tree and one Documents and Settings folder regardless of the logged-in user. By the way this makes Uninstall easy. ![]() However if you install the Aquarium on a User Account, then CURRENTUSER of the registry is used, and a specific user Profile folder inside Documents and Settings is used for that user's logos and playlists. If a user logs out and logs in, then they are using a different registry key, and different SereneScreen logo folder. Now, how smart should the Aquarium then be expected to be? If you create a new user account should it scan the registry to see if there is an existing Aquarium Settings (especially one with a valid keycode?). When you Uninstall the Aquarium, should it delete all profile information and registry keys for all users?
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman |
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#306 |
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 186
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![]() How 'bout if everyone just clicks the icon and watches the fish?
![]() ![]() It has been so long so I don't remember but did you have the cross compatibility problems with the first screensaver and Windows 98/ME/2000/XP |
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#307 |
Forum Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 10,939
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The installer/uninstaller package I really like, although it may be too limited for your needs, is AGENTIX. It adds just 37kb to the package, and I am very happy with the feature set and ease of setting it up. It's very streamlined and quick to open and close. I find it is not buggy, flaky, and massive bloatware like InstallShield tends to be.
If you want a more powerful but still lightweight installer, consider the Nullsoft Installer. It is open source and has a ton of functionality and a full scripting language. It's easy to add pages like requesting and verifying a serial number during the installation, and easy to do different languages. There are a lot of example code on how to use Nullsoft, even how to interact with REBOL. One idea is to put a small cleanup batch file inside the User Profile folder and set that batch file to run, deleting all the other files in that folder, and then itself. You can tell Windows to run that script if someone clicks remove in "Add/Remove Programs". This seemed useful: http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Add_unin...emove_Programs
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman |
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#308 |
Forum Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 10,939
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![]() That's too funny. It gave me a good laugh.
It has been so long so I don't remember but did you have the cross compatibility problems with the first screensaver and Windows 98/ME/2000/XP ![]()
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman |
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#310 |
Developer
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 9,785
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No, I just wrote that one for Win98.
Jim Sachs
Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium |
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#311 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
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![]() I am assuming the the Marine Aquarium 3 installer application will prompt to install for "All Users" or the "Currently Logged in User" as most installer packages now offer this choice.
Now you cannot assume that the C: drive is the boot drive. Further, you cannot assume that Documents and Settings is the profile folder. From Windows XP Environment Variables: ![]() ![]() If Marine Aquarium 3 is installed for "All Users" then Logos and Playlist should be stored in the reserved directory %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Application Data\SereneScreen\.
![]() If the PROGRAM is installed for only "Current User", then that simply means that the PROGRAM is accessible to only that user. That decision is not usually DIRECTLY related to where files reside. And there are various good ways to accomplish the "protection" that allows only that one user to use this installation of the program. [And, BTW, there must be provision for the program to be installed for two or more individual users, but not all users] ![]() The challenges:
When you install the Aquarium as All Users, a flag needs to be set somewhere for the Aquarium to look at one registry tree and one Documents and Settings folder regardless of the logged-in user. By the way this makes Uninstall easy. ![]() ![]() ![]() However if you install the Aquarium on a User Account, then CURRENTUSER of the registry is used, and a specific user Profile folder inside Documents and Settings is used for that user's logos and playlists. If a user logs out and logs in, then they are using a different registry key, and different SereneScreen logo folder.
![]() ![]() Now, how smart should the Aquarium then be expected to be? If you create a new user account should it scan the registry to see if there is an existing Aquarium Settings (especially one with a valid keycode?).
![]() ![]() When you Uninstall the Aquarium, should it delete all profile information and registry keys for all users?
![]() Yes, I agree with the previous comment that it is "annoying" that uninstall programs leave a lot of things behind, but: A. Most users never know, and therefore aren't annoyed. B. Most users WOULD be annoyed if an uninstall/reinstall lost their settings. C. That's why "registry cleaners" exist, for those who are annoyed. |
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#312 |
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 57
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My $0.02... I think Dale is right on the mark with his comments, and his description of how a "well-behaved" Windows program should work. Microsoft has defined specific "folder symbols" (that are mapped to real folders, on a user by user basis), and what each folder should be used for. There are Win32 API functions for retrieving that information. (See: SHGetFolderPath, CSIDL_PROGRAM_FILES, and CSIDL_APPDATA)
~Ralph S. |
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#313 |
Prolific/SereneScreen Developer
Join Date: Mar 2003
![]() Location: Norwalk, CA
Posts: 513
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On the next build, if Jim approves it, the user folder will be created in the directory pointed by the environment variable "APPDATA".
If MA3 is successful getting that value and MA3 was able to create "Marine Aquarium 3" folder there, then the MA3Playlist.lst will be written there. If you need to have an AltLogo.png, put it in that same folder. It will make this even more complicated for users to find their user data folder but it will prevent the file write access problem that is being reported here. |
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#314 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
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![]() On the next build, if Jim approves it, the user folder will be created in the directory pointed by the environment variable "APPDATA".
.......... It will make this even more complicated for users to find their user data folder .... . ![]() It is common to display various significant folder paths in the "About" screen. That would work for MA3, and it would be perhaps even more logical to display the significant folder paths in the "Program Settings" panel. [Gilding the lily: allow users to CHANGE these paths, by changing what is shown on that panel - perhaps optionally moving the current contents to the new path] |
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#315 |
Developer
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 9,785
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Jim Sachs
Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium |
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#316 |
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 7,854
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The 'L' key logo change is not working again in Beta8g. - So where must we now move the AltLogo file to this time? - It's still in the MA26 install folder, and I've tried it in the '8g' MA3Beta.scr folder. - The alternate logo will still display in Beta8f, but not in this latest Beta8g.
The misalignment effect I've previously described is still present. Shouldn't it be pointed out that if MA3 is to be viewed on more than one monitor, then all monitors must be the same size and set to the same resolution? - This may be considered obvious to some, - but unlike similar programs, (MA2.6 for instance), MA3 does not display the whole scene at a reduced resolution, unless both screens are similarly reduced. |
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#317 |
Engineer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,279
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On the uninstaller - I think it should have an option to leave the configuration files behind, but should also be able to remove everything. That's considered good behaviour for an uninstaller...
John |
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#318 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2000
![]() Location: Tennessee
Posts: 9,725
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Personally it tick's me off no end for a program to leave files behind. If I want something deleted from my system, I expect it to be as if it was never there after a uninstall.
Michael
Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & Gallery DVD Collection |
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#319 |
Prolific/SereneScreen Developer
Join Date: Mar 2003
![]() Location: Norwalk, CA
Posts: 513
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If you try to add a entry in the playlist for the frist time, check the folder it opens up from, that will be the folder where you need to put the AltLogo.png.
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#320 |
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Savannah, Ga.
Posts: 421
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That's where mine is but the L key is not working. Beta 8g
LB
Last edited by loub516; 01-22-2009 at 12:28 PM. |
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