Horizontal Bars? - Page 2

r1wigs · 09-28-2006, 03:26 PM

Thanx cjmaddy, your picture of the marine saver is exactly what I'm seeing on my screen! For some reason my screenshots don't show it well. I tried changing from 16 to 32 in the Goldfish 2 controls, "not" in display. I understand what people are saying about the video card but it doesn't explain why it worked perfectly before. If I had seen that I would not have purchased it. It seems a little crazy to spend 100 $ on a new video card just to run a 19 $ screensaver and I'm not a gamer.

Jav400 · 09-28-2006, 03:31 PM

It may not be the "video card" per se, it could be the drivers. You haven't actually told us yet what card it is, and what driver version you are using. If you have a bad set running it could be that causing it. Reboot the machine and then run it in 32 bit and see what you get. Meanwhile what card is it and what drivers?

r1wigs · 09-28-2006, 03:47 PM

As you may have guessed, my computer knowledge is not up to this boards level. Please forgive me. My card is a stock card that came with the computer, NVADIA Vanta/Vanta LT. This is what is listed in the Device Manager. I went to the NVADIA website and can't figure out how to check if there is an updated driver. You seem to have to know exactly which card you have and I don't. I'm looking at video cards on Ebay, maybe I can snag one for not so many $.

Jav400 · 09-28-2006, 04:04 PM

No problem, no one knows anything until they learn it the first time.

Thats what we are here for, in case you don't feel the need to try and learn it.

The Vanta/LT is an old card, along the lines of 4-16MB. Which means basically that it is struggling somewhat to run what you are seeing. Where did this computer come from? Some resellers supply cards with their system that have been changed somewhat and you must go directly to their site to check for drivers. Other more standard builders supply industry standard cards and you can go to the nvidia site and download which ever drivers you wish. It makes a difference if they will work properly and run or not when you change them.

IF your card/system will run standard drivers even then the latest ones you could probably use from nvidia would be somewhere in the 70.xx series. Later drivers than that will not work with your card as it is to old to use them and not supported.

Another thing I want you to do is run the aquarium and press the "S" key while it is running. Look in the top left corner and copy down what you see there and post it here. If your system is that old we probably want to limit the frame rate somewhat as well so as not to overheat your cpu/system. Remember that the fish in this screensaver are drawn in real 3D, and it taxes older systems to run it continually.

cjmaddy · 09-28-2006, 04:32 PM

r1wigs,
It has always been accepted that the Goldfish SS is more demanding than the Marine SS, but I don't understand why you did not notice the banding effect of the background, before. - Some sorts of banding can be difficult to see at times, check out this thread about MA from way back in 2001.

As my previous link shows, banding was a problem for a number of us in the early days of the Goldfish Aquarium but was easily cured by a change to 32bit. It is my opinion that with more recent cards and drivers, the effect is probably less likely to occur. The trouble is that this was so long ago! - There was another occasion on the beta forum, (which won't be available to all of you), which was due to applying AA in an attempt to reduce 'jaggles'. - If you do have any AA present, I would suggest you try it set for 'Off', or check the 'Application-controlled' box.

But as Michael has said, it is vital that we know more about the equipment and drivers that you are using, if we are to sort this problem out for you.

Edit: This was written before those last two posts. ... It now looks like we may get somewhere. ..... Good!

cjmaddy · 09-28-2006, 05:44 PM

This page suggests that 66.93 may be the latest drivers for Vanta LT. - Downloadable here.

Jav400 · 09-28-2006, 06:49 PM

The last driver I found was 71.84 as shown by the compatibility list. But, that doesn't necessarily mean that it would be the best driver.

You would need to get the proper version for either 2k/XP or 98/ME.

You were close Cliff, and it may be that those particular drivers would work better than the actual "latest".

http://www.nvidia.com/object/71.84_g...supported.html

r1wigs · 09-30-2006, 11:32 AM

agp_slot_2x4x.PNGI tried the 66.93 and it did install but I think the banding was better but not gone. I then tried the 71.84 and it wouldn't except it. I'm have limited funds due to (many) health issues so I'm trying to find the best video card for the least amount of money that I can get to run this screensaver. My wife splurged and bought me a beautiful 20 in LCD monitor for my 50th birthday. So i feel a bit guilty about spending more money. I found this card and I do have a AGP slot. I included a pic I found on the internet and it looks exactly like my AGP slot. The picture caption says its a 2x/4x agp slot. What I need to know is will this card work?http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product...oducts_id=4955

ESHIREY · 09-30-2006, 12:10 PM

I don't see why not.

cjmaddy · 09-30-2006, 12:39 PM

I would rather go for one of the better known cards, like nVidia GeForce.
For that amount of money it would probably have to be something like a MX440, and I'm not sure that would be good enough, - what do others here think?

feldon34 · 09-30-2006, 07:42 PM

Almost any of the GeForce 4's will be good. I am not sure how long this link will work, but it should show $10-25 video cards and several are GeForce AGP cards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...SubCategory=48

Jav400 · 09-30-2006, 07:51 PM

newegg is a good place to order from, they have alot of options as far as product goes, and their shipping is usually spot on and fast. Let us know what price range you want to stay within and we can help you find a good overall card within that range.

cjmaddy · 10-01-2006, 05:20 AM

If you do finish up getting that XGI Volari card, I see that it has a DVI Connector, (as will many other cards, - but not all.). Therefore, assuming your new 20 in LCD monitor is equipped with a DVI option, (most new flat panel monitors are!). Then I recommend getting a card with a DVI out, and using the DVI in preference to the 15-pin VGA. - The degree of improvement in picture quality will vary depending on various factors, ..... but DVI will always give a better/sharper image.

(.....Waits to be shot down on that last statement, - but I am convinced that it is a fact!)

ps, On the Newegg link given, the Asus V9400-X appears to be the only one showing a DVI connector. .... That is the one I would be tempted to consider!

feldon34 · 10-01-2006, 07:39 AM

DVI connector is almost always better. I've noticed that some of the cheaper LCD panels have a VERY poor, fuzzy picture with analog (VGA). They didn't even bother to optimize the quality with this connector since they figure most people will use the DVI connector.

ESHIREY · 10-01-2006, 08:56 AM

I agree with that.

r1wigs · 10-01-2006, 03:00 PM

It's a 300$ Westinghouse monitor, I don't know if that's "cheap". I have posted this question on other computer boards and they said they see no difference on picture quality for monitors with vga or dvi connections. They said it was about the same. I don't know.

cjmaddy · 10-01-2006, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by r1wigs:

..... I have posted this question on other computer boards and they said they see no difference on picture quality for monitors with vga or dvi connections. They said it was about the same. I don't know.

All I can do is say what I have found to be a fact, - NOT my opinion!
Read these two sites, then draw your own conclusions....
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3174_7-5136369-1.html
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/108

In summary, if you have a LCD monitor with DVI input, use it, you will have a better image quality.

r1wigs · 10-01-2006, 09:16 PM

I wasn't trying to start an argument but my new monitor has a DVI connection and I don't have a DVI connection on the computer. I started investigating whether I should invest into a new video card. Photos on this LCD screen are eye popping, but fonts leave a lot to be desired. I have adjusted more setting than I can recall and now have fonts very reasonable, using clear type and all that. (I never heard of clear type before this) Screen resolutions and DPI, font sizes, font types (Tahoma is now my font of choice), I have changed so many times I lost track of how I arrived at my current state. Tried the "UseHR" in registry that totally fixed the font problem but I couldn't live with the fuzzy graphics. Looks great now but a few programs I have, the fonts still look like hell. Anyway, I posted on several computer boards to see if this would help out on making the fonts cleaner. (photos were perfect already). General info was that it didn't. So that's what I was referring to. Sorry. (the goldfish screensaver was just one more reason to go ahead and get the card)

cjmaddy · 10-02-2006, 02:55 AM

If you don't see the difference that DVI can make to fine text, then as my son is an optometrist, would you like me to make an appointment with him for you?

Seriously though, I have recently bought identical dual ViewSonic 19" LCD flat panels, (I previously had one 17" LCD and one 17" CRT), and I am just about to change my GeForce FX 5200 Ultra, (that has one DVI and one VGA connector), - for a GeForce 256MB 6800XT, (that has dual DVI connectors). - Because, I CAN see the difference. ... Most noticeably mainly with fine print, like reading these forum pages. - If you were to look at any of the print on this page, whilst the identical page was displayed on the adjacent monitor, I am sure that anyone would be able to tell instantly which monitor was connected via a DVI cable, and which one was analog.

Depending on other factors, you will not notice much, (if any), difference on pictures, MA, GA or DA screensavers for instance. But on fine text the difference could be night and day!

r1wigs · 10-02-2006, 05:37 AM

Did I say "I" couldn't tell the difference?????

I don't have a DVI connection. Reread the post ! Oddly, the main moderator from a forum that is associated with the website link from above is the one's advice I was referring to. He told me he has many computers hooked up both ways and sees little difference in the font problem with LCD screens. Obviously he has a lot of computer knowledge and I listened to his advice. I guess he was wrong.

09-28-2006, 03:31 PM	#22
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	It may not be the "video card" per se, it could be the drivers. You haven't actually told us yet what card it is, and what driver version you are using. If you have a bad set running it could be that causing it. Reboot the machine and then run it in 32 bit and see what you get. Meanwhile what card is it and what drivers? Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

09-28-2006, 03:47 PM	#23
r1wigs Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 12	Video Card As you may have guessed, my computer knowledge is not up to this boards level. Please forgive me. My card is a stock card that came with the computer, NVADIA Vanta/Vanta LT. This is what is listed in the Device Manager. I went to the NVADIA website and can't figure out how to check if there is an updated driver. You seem to have to know exactly which card you have and I don't. I'm looking at video cards on Ebay, maybe I can snag one for not so many $.

09-28-2006, 04:04 PM	#24
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	No problem, no one knows anything until they learn it the first time. Thats what we are here for, in case you don't feel the need to try and learn it. The Vanta/LT is an old card, along the lines of 4-16MB. Which means basically that it is struggling somewhat to run what you are seeing. Where did this computer come from? Some resellers supply cards with their system that have been changed somewhat and you must go directly to their site to check for drivers. Other more standard builders supply industry standard cards and you can go to the nvidia site and download which ever drivers you wish. It makes a difference if they will work properly and run or not when you change them. IF your card/system will run standard drivers even then the latest ones you could probably use from nvidia would be somewhere in the 70.xx series. Later drivers than that will not work with your card as it is to old to use them and not supported. Another thing I want you to do is run the aquarium and press the "S" key while it is running. Look in the top left corner and copy down what you see there and post it here. If your system is that old we probably want to limit the frame rate somewhat as well so as not to overheat your cpu/system. Remember that the fish in this screensaver are drawn in real 3D, and it taxes older systems to run it continually. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

09-28-2006, 06:49 PM	#27
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	The last driver I found was 71.84 as shown by the compatibility list. But, that doesn't necessarily mean that it would be the best driver. You would need to get the proper version for either 2k/XP or 98/ME. You were close Cliff, and it may be that those particular drivers would work better than the actual "latest". http://www.nvidia.com/object/71.84_g...supported.html Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection Last edited by Jav400; 09-28-2006 at 09:04 PM.

09-30-2006, 11:32 AM	#28
r1wigs Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 12	Thanx Everyone? agp_slot_2x4x.PNGI tried the 66.93 and it did install but I think the banding was better but not gone. I then tried the 71.84 and it wouldn't except it. I'm have limited funds due to (many) health issues so I'm trying to find the best video card for the least amount of money that I can get to run this screensaver. My wife splurged and bought me a beautiful 20 in LCD monitor for my 50th birthday. So i feel a bit guilty about spending more money. I found this card and I do have a AGP slot. I included a pic I found on the internet and it looks exactly like my AGP slot. The picture caption says its a 2x/4x agp slot. What I need to know is will this card work?http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product...oducts_id=4955

09-28-2006, 03:26 PM	#21
r1wigs Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 12	Thanx cjmaddy, your picture of the marine saver is exactly what I'm seeing on my screen! For some reason my screenshots don't show it well. I tried changing from 16 to 32 in the Goldfish 2 controls, "not" in display. I understand what people are saying about the video card but it doesn't explain why it worked perfectly before. If I had seen that I would not have purchased it. It seems a little crazy to spend 100 $ on a new video card just to run a 19 $ screensaver and I'm not a gamer.

09-28-2006, 04:32 PM	#25
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	r1wigs, It has always been accepted that the Goldfish SS is more demanding than the Marine SS, but I don't understand why you did not notice the banding effect of the background, before. - Some sorts of banding can be difficult to see at times, check out this thread about MA from way back in 2001. As my previous link shows, banding was a problem for a number of us in the early days of the Goldfish Aquarium but was easily cured by a change to 32bit. It is my opinion that with more recent cards and drivers, the effect is probably less likely to occur. The trouble is that this was so long ago! - There was another occasion on the beta forum, (which won't be available to all of you), which was due to applying AA in an attempt to reduce 'jaggles'. - If you do have any AA present, I would suggest you try it set for 'Off', or check the 'Application-controlled' box. But as Michael has said, it is vital that we know more about the equipment and drivers that you are using, if we are to sort this problem out for you. Edit: This was written before those last two posts. ... It now looks like we may get somewhere. ..... Good!

09-28-2006, 05:44 PM	#26
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	This page suggests that 66.93 may be the latest drivers for Vanta LT. - Downloadable here.

09-30-2006, 12:10 PM	#29
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	I don't see why not. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

09-30-2006, 12:39 PM	#30
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	I would rather go for one of the better known cards, like nVidia GeForce. For that amount of money it would probably have to be something like a MX440, and I'm not sure that would be good enough, - what do others here think?

09-30-2006, 07:42 PM	#31
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Almost any of the GeForce 4's will be good. I am not sure how long this link will work, but it should show $10-25 video cards and several are GeForce AGP cards: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...SubCategory=48 "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

09-30-2006, 07:51 PM	#32
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	newegg is a good place to order from, they have alot of options as far as product goes, and their shipping is usually spot on and fast. Let us know what price range you want to stay within and we can help you find a good overall card within that range. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-01-2006, 05:20 AM	#33
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	If you do finish up getting that XGI Volari card, I see that it has a DVI Connector, (as will many other cards, - but not all.). Therefore, assuming your new 20 in LCD monitor is equipped with a DVI option, (most new flat panel monitors are!). Then I recommend getting a card with a DVI out, and using the DVI in preference to the 15-pin VGA. - The degree of improvement in picture quality will vary depending on various factors, ..... but DVI will always give a better/sharper image. (.....Waits to be shot down on that last statement, - but I am convinced that it is a fact!) ps, On the Newegg link given, the Asus V9400-X appears to be the only one showing a DVI connector. .... That is the one I would be tempted to consider!

10-01-2006, 07:39 AM	#34
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	DVI connector is almost always better. I've noticed that some of the cheaper LCD panels have a VERY poor, fuzzy picture with analog (VGA). They didn't even bother to optimize the quality with this connector since they figure most people will use the DVI connector. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-01-2006, 08:56 AM	#35
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	I agree with that. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

10-01-2006, 03:00 PM	#36
r1wigs Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 12	Monitor It's a 300$ Westinghouse monitor, I don't know if that's "cheap". I have posted this question on other computer boards and they said they see no difference on picture quality for monitors with vga or dvi connections. They said it was about the same. I don't know.

10-01-2006, 04:52 PM	#37
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Originally posted by r1wigs: ..... I have posted this question on other computer boards and they said they see no difference on picture quality for monitors with vga or dvi connections. They said it was about the same. I don't know. All I can do is say what I have found to be a fact, - NOT my opinion! Read these two sites, then draw your own conclusions.... http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3174_7-5136369-1.html http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/108 In summary, if you have a LCD monitor with DVI input, use it, you will have a better image quality.

10-01-2006, 09:16 PM	#38
r1wigs Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 12	? I wasn't trying to start an argument but my new monitor has a DVI connection and I don't have a DVI connection on the computer. I started investigating whether I should invest into a new video card. Photos on this LCD screen are eye popping, but fonts leave a lot to be desired. I have adjusted more setting than I can recall and now have fonts very reasonable, using clear type and all that. (I never heard of clear type before this) Screen resolutions and DPI, font sizes, font types (Tahoma is now my font of choice), I have changed so many times I lost track of how I arrived at my current state. Tried the "UseHR" in registry that totally fixed the font problem but I couldn't live with the fuzzy graphics. Looks great now but a few programs I have, the fonts still look like hell. Anyway, I posted on several computer boards to see if this would help out on making the fonts cleaner. (photos were perfect already). General info was that it didn't. So that's what I was referring to. Sorry. (the goldfish screensaver was just one more reason to go ahead and get the card)

10-02-2006, 02:55 AM	#39
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	If you don't see the difference that DVI can make to fine text, then as my son is an optometrist, would you like me to make an appointment with him for you? Seriously though, I have recently bought identical dual ViewSonic 19" LCD flat panels, (I previously had one 17" LCD and one 17" CRT), and I am just about to change my GeForce FX 5200 Ultra, (that has one DVI and one VGA connector), - for a GeForce 256MB 6800XT, (that has dual DVI connectors). - Because, I CAN see the difference. ... Most noticeably mainly with fine print, like reading these forum pages. - If you were to look at any of the print on this page, whilst the identical page was displayed on the adjacent monitor, I am sure that anyone would be able to tell instantly which monitor was connected via a DVI cable, and which one was analog. Depending on other factors, you will not notice much, (if any), difference on pictures, MA, GA or DA screensavers for instance. But on fine text the difference could be night and day!

10-02-2006, 05:37 AM	#40
r1wigs Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 12	? Did I say "I" couldn't tell the difference????? I don't have a DVI connection. Reread the post ! Oddly, the main moderator from a forum that is associated with the website link from above is the one's advice I was referring to. He told me he has many computers hooked up both ways and sees little difference in the font problem with LCD screens. Obviously he has a lot of computer knowledge and I listened to his advice. I guess he was wrong.