MA3 crashing - Page 2

Dale · 09-15-2009, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Socrates:

c0000005
Is a memory access violation.

That exception code is referenced in SIX different topics on this forum.

Dale · 09-15-2009, 12:15 PM

As a diagnostic, try setting MA3 to start in Windowed mode. Then, when you do your "test" (right-click on desktop, etc.), try "Preview", etc. Press "F" several times with MA3 running....

[For a topic related to "F", see https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...ead.php?t=4426 ]

Calusa · 09-15-2009, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

As a diagnostic, try setting MA3 to start in Windowed mode. Then, when you do your "test" (right-click on desktop, etc.), try "Preview", etc. Press "F" several times with MA3 running....

[For a topic related to "F", see https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...ead.php?t=4426 ]

Same crash when accessing from the desktop/personalize/screensaver

When I access MA3 direct from the start menu there is no crash. Its only from the desktop/personalize etc etc
Thanks

Dale · 09-15-2009, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Calusa:

Whenever I right click the desktop and select personalize/screen saver, an error message pops up stating that MA3 screen saver has caused an error, check online or close program. If I close the erro window, the screen saver panel eventually opens where I can access the settings. If I however do a preview and escape I get back the same error message.

Bill

OK, from this description, I'm guessing that you have never seen the "animated" contents of the "monitor" in the Screen Saver panel.

When I do what you are describing, the "monitor" within the Screen Saver panel first shows the MA3 logo, and then the fish appear and start swimming around (a miniature version of the simulation). You may not have seen either of those things. What (if anything) is shown on that "monitor"?

I'm also guessing that if you have your Screen Saver set to something else, and go to that panel, and then change it to MA3 (without clicking "apply"), that you get the same crash.

If those things are true, there might be enough "clue" for Jim to fix it.

Calusa · 09-15-2009, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

OK, from this description, I'm guessing that you have never seen the "animated" contents of the "monitor" in the Screen Saver panel.

When I do what you are describing, the "monitor" within the Screen Saver panel first shows the MA3 logo, and then the fish appear and start swimming around (a miniature version of the simulation). You may not have seen either of those things. What (if anything) is shown on that "monitor"?

I'm also guessing that if you have your Screen Saver set to something else, and go to that panel, and then change it to MA3 (without clicking "apply"), that you get the same crash.

If those things are true, there might be enough "clue" for Jim to fix it.

Yes you are correct. All of the above is true. I never see anything but a black screen in the "monitor" section of the screen saver panel.

Thanks
Bill

Dale · 09-16-2009, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Calusa:

Yes you are correct. All of the above is true. I never see anything but a black screen in the "monitor" section of the screen saver panel.

Thanks
Bill

OK (for Jim): Problem description: Simulation runs OK, but MA3 crashes when trying to display the miniature version on the "monitor" section of the Screen Saver panel.

feldon34 · 09-16-2009, 08:14 PM

Getting the Aquarium to preview in that window has always had roughly the same priority as adding a bright pink talking fish. For the first 7 years that Marine Aquarium was sold, that preview window was blank. Didn't hurt sales much.

Dale · 09-16-2009, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by feldon33:

Getting the Aquarium to preview in that window has always had roughly the same priority as adding a bright pink talking fish. For the first 7 years that Marine Aquarium was sold, that preview window was blank. Didn't hurt sales much.

Absolutely agreed - but I don't understand your point.

This topic appears to be about getting MA3 to not crash! on anybody's computer.

Jim Sachs · 09-16-2009, 11:28 PM

I simply don't have a clue as to why it would be incompatible with the Windows screensaver routines on that machine. In order to diagnose it, the problem would have to occur on my machine while I'm using the debugger. The two problems with that are the fact that my machine doesn't crash, and his machine only experiences the problem when Windows attempts to use the screensaver system to launch it (so I assume it wouldn't happen if launched by a debugger).

flipper · 09-17-2009, 06:25 AM

Jim, are you generating linker maps of your commercially released builds? If so, you can use that map, along with the crash exception info's crash address, to at least locate the routine in which the crash occurs.

There's several other simple things you can do to help track down these types of problems without the problem actually occuring on your machine while you're running the app in debug mode, which normally only uncovers the most obvious bugs as it has a tendency to mask or hide the really tough to find bugs.

Dale · 09-17-2009, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I simply don't have a clue as to why it would be incompatible with the Windows screensaver routines on that machine. In order to diagnose it, the problem would have to occur on my machine while I'm using the debugger. The two problems with that are the fact that my machine doesn't crash, and his machine only experiences the problem when Windows attempts to use the screensaver system to launch it (so I assume it wouldn't happen if launched by a debugger).

You did notice that MA3 works correctly when the Screen Saver launches it (based on time). But the "miniature" version in the "monitor" is what causes the crash. (Display Properties is what is running).

Jim Sachs · 09-17-2009, 12:35 PM

Thr program does not have any diagnostc links built in.

Dale · 09-17-2009, 12:54 PM

This crash seems to be isolated to the part of the code that runs in /p mode.

If you had the time to build a special copy without the /p mode code, and provide it to Calusa, this could be verified. That wouldn't FIX it, but would at least isolate it.

Alternatively, you could post that snippet of code on this forum, and some of the experts (not I) could maybe see a problem.

Jim Sachs · 09-17-2009, 08:04 PM

If I thought there was a chance that spending a lot of time coding, recoding, and otherwise troubleshooting code would actually be effective, I'd probably do it. But the fact that the code is directly from Microsoft examples, and works on virtually every PC out there except this one (literally hundreds of millions to one), leads me to believe that the problem is in that computer, not in the code.

This is the very reason that we insist that people download and try the Aquarium for free, to make sure that it works on their computer. If it doesn't, we have all you smart and helpful Forum members to offer suggestions. Have you noticed how many times a problem which has stumped all of us turns out to be something we couldn't have possibly guessed? Sometimes several months later the poor victim will come back to the Forum and report, "Hey - I just thought I'd let you guys know that my computer had a Planaria Worm!", or somesuch.

Dale · 09-17-2009, 08:47 PM

Fair enough.

Footnote: The isolated "only on one of my PCs" problem that I reported a few months ago, has mysteriously gone away. Of course, there have been several updates to my computer since then.

Jim Sachs · 09-18-2009, 01:16 AM

Thanks for the note.

09-16-2009, 08:14 PM	#27
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Getting the Aquarium to preview in that window has always had roughly the same priority as adding a bright pink talking fish. For the first 7 years that Marine Aquarium was sold, that preview window was blank. Didn't hurt sales much. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

09-16-2009, 11:28 PM	#29
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	I simply don't have a clue as to why it would be incompatible with the Windows screensaver routines on that machine. In order to diagnose it, the problem would have to occur on my machine while I'm using the debugger. The two problems with that are the fact that my machine doesn't crash, and his machine only experiences the problem when Windows attempts to use the screensaver system to launch it (so I assume it wouldn't happen if launched by a debugger). Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

09-17-2009, 12:35 PM	#32
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	Thr program does not have any diagnostc links built in. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

09-17-2009, 08:04 PM	#34
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	If I thought there was a chance that spending a lot of time coding, recoding, and otherwise troubleshooting code would actually be effective, I'd probably do it. But the fact that the code is directly from Microsoft examples, and works on virtually every PC out there except this one (literally hundreds of millions to one), leads me to believe that the problem is in that computer, not in the code. This is the very reason that we insist that people download and try the Aquarium for free, to make sure that it works on their computer. If it doesn't, we have all you smart and helpful Forum members to offer suggestions. Have you noticed how many times a problem which has stumped all of us turns out to be something we couldn't have possibly guessed? Sometimes several months later the poor victim will come back to the Forum and report, "Hey - I just thought I'd let you guys know that my computer had a Planaria Worm!", or somesuch. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

09-18-2009, 01:16 AM	#36
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	Thanks for the note. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

09-15-2009, 12:06 PM	#21
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Socrates: c0000005 Is a memory access violation. That exception code is referenced in SIX different topics on this forum.

09-15-2009, 12:15 PM	#22
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	As a diagnostic, try setting MA3 to start in Windowed mode. Then, when you do your "test" (right-click on desktop, etc.), try "Preview", etc. Press "F" several times with MA3 running.... [For a topic related to "F", see https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...ead.php?t=4426 ]

09-15-2009, 02:31 PM	#23
Calusa Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 10	Originally posted by Dale: As a diagnostic, try setting MA3 to start in Windowed mode. Then, when you do your "test" (right-click on desktop, etc.), try "Preview", etc. Press "F" several times with MA3 running.... [For a topic related to "F", see https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...ead.php?t=4426 ] Same crash when accessing from the desktop/personalize/screensaver When I access MA3 direct from the start menu there is no crash. Its only from the desktop/personalize etc etc Thanks

09-15-2009, 05:48 PM	#24
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Calusa: Whenever I right click the desktop and select personalize/screen saver, an error message pops up stating that MA3 screen saver has caused an error, check online or close program. If I close the erro window, the screen saver panel eventually opens where I can access the settings. If I however do a preview and escape I get back the same error message. Bill OK, from this description, I'm guessing that you have never seen the "animated" contents of the "monitor" in the Screen Saver panel. When I do what you are describing, the "monitor" within the Screen Saver panel first shows the MA3 logo, and then the fish appear and start swimming around (a miniature version of the simulation). You may not have seen either of those things. What (if anything) is shown on that "monitor"? I'm also guessing that if you have your Screen Saver set to something else, and go to that panel, and then change it to MA3 (without clicking "apply"), that you get the same crash. If those things are true, there might be enough "clue" for Jim to fix it.

09-15-2009, 11:54 PM	#25
Calusa Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 10	Originally posted by Dale: OK, from this description, I'm guessing that you have never seen the "animated" contents of the "monitor" in the Screen Saver panel. When I do what you are describing, the "monitor" within the Screen Saver panel first shows the MA3 logo, and then the fish appear and start swimming around (a miniature version of the simulation). You may not have seen either of those things. What (if anything) is shown on that "monitor"? I'm also guessing that if you have your Screen Saver set to something else, and go to that panel, and then change it to MA3 (without clicking "apply"), that you get the same crash. If those things are true, there might be enough "clue" for Jim to fix it. Yes you are correct. All of the above is true. I never see anything but a black screen in the "monitor" section of the screen saver panel. Thanks Bill

09-16-2009, 01:37 PM	#26
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Calusa: Yes you are correct. All of the above is true. I never see anything but a black screen in the "monitor" section of the screen saver panel. Thanks Bill OK (for Jim): Problem description: Simulation runs OK, but MA3 crashes when trying to display the miniature version on the "monitor" section of the Screen Saver panel.

09-16-2009, 10:02 PM	#28
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon33: Getting the Aquarium to preview in that window has always had roughly the same priority as adding a bright pink talking fish. For the first 7 years that Marine Aquarium was sold, that preview window was blank. Didn't hurt sales much. Absolutely agreed - but I don't understand your point. This topic appears to be about getting MA3 to *not crash!* on anybody's computer.

09-17-2009, 06:25 AM	#30
flipper Registered Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 60	Jim, are you generating linker maps of your commercially released builds? If so, you can use that map, along with the crash exception info's crash address, to at least locate the routine in which the crash occurs. There's several other simple things you can do to help track down these types of problems without the problem actually occuring on your machine while you're running the app in debug mode, which normally only uncovers the most obvious bugs as it has a tendency to mask or hide the really tough to find bugs.

09-17-2009, 10:01 AM	#31
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I simply don't have a clue as to why it would be incompatible with the Windows screensaver routines on that machine. In order to diagnose it, the problem would have to occur on my machine while I'm using the debugger. The two problems with that are the fact that my machine doesn't crash, and his machine only experiences the problem when Windows attempts to use the screensaver system to launch it (so I assume it wouldn't happen if launched by a debugger). You did notice that MA3 works correctly when the Screen Saver launches it (based on time). But the "miniature" version in the "monitor" is what causes the crash. (Display Properties is what is running).

09-17-2009, 12:54 PM	#33
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	This crash seems to be isolated to the part of the code that runs in /p mode. If you had the time to build a special copy without the /p mode code, and provide it to Calusa, this could be verified. That wouldn't FIX it, but would at least isolate it. Alternatively, you could post that snippet of code on this forum, and some of the experts (not I) could maybe see a problem.

09-17-2009, 08:47 PM	#35
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Fair enough. Footnote: The isolated "only on one of my PCs" problem that I reported a few months ago, has mysteriously gone away. Of course, there have been several updates to my computer since then.