Beta 9e - Page 2

cjmaddy · 02-23-2009, 05:56 AM

The only strange effect I can duplicate is the expected effect of 'flashing in turn with low FPS', if all logos are set to 0 seconds.

If MA3Logolist.lst is deleted, and logos are then added to the regenerated list, then the first logo stays on screen for approx 15 seconds, (as reported elsewhere), before each logo then starts to change at however many seconds they were set to.
But as the "empty-playlist bug" is now fixed, - why on earth should we want to delete the MA3Logolist.lst ?

The longer all this goes on, the more I'm convinced that all these bells and whistles are not worth it, and are a distraction to the whole project!
I wish it didn't have ANY "songs"

- OR clocks! .... It used to be all about fish and corals! - Anyone remember those days?

clifdene · 02-23-2009, 06:20 AM

I could add dual monitors to songs & clocks!! Must admit I had three aquariums!!
I well remember the days you mention. Looks as if these things are now more important than fish etc.

cjmaddy · 02-23-2009, 08:53 AM

I've gone back to using 9b, it works how I want it to, - nice and simple!
9c, 9d, and 9e are too unnecessarily complicated and problematic, in my opinion. - Like all software, it's getting too complicated, - keep it simple!

Jim Sachs · 02-23-2009, 09:42 AM

I had to add these interfaces, Beta 9b was not ready for the general public. Now that it's starting to get wider disribution, it was unacceptable that you had to rename logos, copy them into certain hard-to-find folders, manually switch using the L key, and only get one alternate.

If I can just get these last couple of bugs squashed today, it's back to the clams.

cjmaddy · 02-23-2009, 10:24 AM

I appreciate all that, Jim. And I can see that you are now committed to how you have implemented certain features. But to appeal to your mass wider target customer base, I think these interfaces are getting complicated. ..... We, can follow them, - but time alone will tell.

.... Just my opinion, of course!

Jim Sachs · 02-23-2009, 10:43 AM

I'm totally open to suggestions, but I thought the playlist interfaces were pretty simple compared to the previous way of setting an alternate logo. I also thought that doing away with a clock interface entirely, and just incorporating everything that can show up on the crystal into one list, greatly simplified things.

I've now changed the code so that a logo will not attempt to load if its time is set to zero. Maybe someday I'll add functions for setting it to infinity or graying out unused ones, but this should be good enough for now.

clifdene · 02-23-2009, 10:51 AM

Roll on the clams!

De Bobo Mon · 02-23-2009, 11:20 AM

I am using 9E on an XP machine.

When the timeout occurs on the logo, regardless of whether I have one or many images the entire display does a short freeze/stutter. Even with one logo this occurs every (timer setting) x seconds. If set to '0' then it begins to continuously stutter. Sound playback does not appear to be affected.

Perhaps a stopgap would be an option to not change the logo but to asllow a selected item to display continuously until the issue is resolved.

I just noted that if I select "C" the clock display appears but after (timer setting) seconds the Logo reapepars with the aforementioned stutter.

I have only one image selected in the logo screen and had not added any clock / calendar items to it. I had assumed that if I hit C that it would stay with the clock item I had selected.

Jim Sachs · 02-23-2009, 11:52 AM

The Beta9f version will contain code which totally skips logos whose time has been set to zero, so unnessesary stuttering will be eliminated.

Regarding a pause when new logos are loaded, there is no issue to resolve. If a logo is big, it will take the computer a certain amount of time to load it. On my 5-year old XP machine, a 256x256 PNG file loads in the space of a single frame, so there's no glitch at all.

On the clock issue, the idea was that if someone wanted to see what time it is, pressing the C key would interrupt the Logo playlist, and display a clock for 10 seconds. If they wanted a continuous clock, they can simply put it in the Logolist. Since you are the second person to ask about this, I may need to add some way of making the switch permanent.

Dale · 02-23-2009, 12:05 PM

I believe that the UI is well-designed and has the correct feature set. I don't think it is too complex.

However, with any feature-rich UI, there are many opportunities for misunderstanding.

https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...ead.php?t=4751

Nicki · 02-23-2009, 12:09 PM

It seems that I have figured it out . I still had the installer version on my machines , and it conflicted with 9e causing the crash . Since removing it , everything works fine . I think we can draw a line under this one now . But I suppose it is good to know that now you should only have one version on each computer .

Jim Sachs · 02-23-2009, 12:13 PM

Yes, that could explain it. But just to be sure, I put some more safeguards into the code. Beta9f will have them.

De Bobo Mon · 02-23-2009, 12:18 PM

Jim,

If I have only ONE logo in the list. Whenever the timer hits the system stutters, even though nothing is visibly changing.

The image is a full color 256 x 256 jpg if that makes any difference.

I have tested this on three systems that I have access to, all XP all 1.6 celeron to 3 ghz Pentium.

While I have 9E installed I have never used the installer version to date.

Jim Sachs · 02-23-2009, 12:21 PM

Again - jpegs are much more complex to load and decompress, so there will always be a lag compared to PNGs.

Maybe I should just remove jpegs from the file filter.

Nicki · 02-23-2009, 12:24 PM

Sorry , I meant to say we can draw a line under *my* personal bug . Very few people would ever delete the entire logo list , probably won't ever touch it after the initial set up , but I did some programming in my high school days and know that it's the debugging that often makes the difference between a good and bad piece of software ( if only the folks at iolo knew this... ) . So I tend to torture test .

Jim , you asked what happened to my logo list after the crash . On the next run it would be there just as it was before I made the changes , with all my logos & clocks intact , which was nice because I didn't need to go and rebuild the list .

De Bobo Mon · 02-23-2009, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Again - jpegs are much more complex to load and decompress, so there will always be a lag compared to PNGs.

Maybe I should just remove jpegs from the file filter.

So I guess you are saying that regardless of the fact that there is only one image in the list it reloads it whenever the timer triggers. And there is no way to tell it to just sit on the logo since there is nothing needed to be reloaded.

(I had removed the SS Logo)

cjmaddy · 02-23-2009, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I'm totally open to suggestions...

Ok, - a few, slightly less-complex-to-operate, suggestions....

Clock:-
The C key to be the one and only way to display and cycle through the three clocks and the calendar. This could be programed to override whatever was currently showing on the crystal, and could be displayed for only a limited period of time? - (Unless there was an option to, 'Stay On')

Logos:-
The 'Marine Aquarium 3' to be the default first-start-up logo, (of course! ). - Then have a space in the settings panel, to add the specified type of user logos, that would be shown in turn by using the L key. - Each one would remain on until the L key was pressed again to display the next logo. The 'Marine Aquarium 3' would return again, after the last 'user' logo.

Music:-
When the 'Music' option is selected, (yes, I know it will default to start 'On' ), the user's sound files of the specified type could be added to a similar space in the settings panel, and cycled through by using the N key.

'M' would remain as the Music On/Off toggle. 'B' as the Bubble On/Off toggle, etc, etc.

I consider that these might be more acceptable ways for use by a less technical-savvy customer base.
This product is aimed at the wider general public, - yes? ... Not computer nerds! - Right?

If the problems encountered so far by contributors to this computer fan site are representative, - then the general public won't stand a chance!

ps, ..... And God help any Customer Service department!

Dale · 02-23-2009, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by De Bobo Mon:

So I guess you are saying that regardless of the fact that there is only one image in the list it reloads it whenever the timer triggers. And there is no way to tell it to just sit on the logo since there is nothing needed to be reloaded.

(I had removed the SS Logo)

Jim, that (don't cycle a 1-item list) should be relatively easy to implement, I suspect.

Jim Sachs · 02-23-2009, 01:11 PM

DeBoboMon - I am adding code to compare the name of the current file with the name of the next file, and if they are the same, ignore the change.

Cliff -
Clock: Are you saying that adding clocks into the logo rotation should not be an option? The second request seems to be the way it already works (override current logo for 10 seconds). With Beta9f, an Alt-C option will make the switch permanent.

Logos: Adding a space in the listbox - with all the debugging of crashes - would take me at least a full day. Going back to manual-switching between the logos would require the hiring of "L-key Pressers" by all the businesses that want to use the Aquarium in kiosks to advertize their companies. (BTW -I just got another email from someone who wanted me to put his logo on the side of a fish!)

Music: I know you hate the idea of music in the program, but penalizing those who like it by forcing them to press N to switch to the next song seems a bit mean. Not to mention the ill-will from their cubical-mates who have to listen to the same song repeated all through their lunch hour

You are right about the contributers - I was surpirsed that the things which I considered so intuitive caused confusion. Well, at least this is the place to sort this stuff out before opening it up to wider release.

De Bobo Mon · 02-23-2009, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

DeBoboMon - I am adding code to compare the name of the current file with the name of the next file, and if they are the same, ignore the change.

Jim,

I guess we were not communicating. I was pointing out what I thought to be a problem. I appreciate your making the change although I was only pointing out what I thought to be a visible bug, albeit a side effect of using a jpeg.

Needless to say I have been around your product since the .99 days and greatly appreciate your work.

02-23-2009, 09:42 AM	#24
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	I had to add these interfaces, Beta 9b was not ready for the general public. Now that it's starting to get wider disribution, it was unacceptable that you had to rename logos, copy them into certain hard-to-find folders, manually switch using the L key, and only get one alternate. If I can just get these last couple of bugs squashed today, it's back to the clams. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2009, 10:43 AM	#26
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	I'm totally open to suggestions, but I thought the playlist interfaces were pretty simple compared to the previous way of setting an alternate logo. I also thought that doing away with a clock interface entirely, and just incorporating everything that can show up on the crystal into one list, greatly simplified things. I've now changed the code so that a logo will not attempt to load if its time is set to zero. Maybe someday I'll add functions for setting it to infinity or graying out unused ones, but this should be good enough for now. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2009, 11:20 AM	#28
De Bobo Mon Registered Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 30	Stutter I am using 9E on an XP machine. When the timeout occurs on the logo, regardless of whether I have one or many images the entire display does a short freeze/stutter. Even with one logo this occurs every (timer setting) x seconds. If set to '0' then it begins to continuously stutter. Sound playback does not appear to be affected. Perhaps a stopgap would be an option to not change the logo but to asllow a selected item to display continuously until the issue is resolved. I just noted that if I select "C" the clock display appears but after (timer setting) seconds the Logo reapepars with the aforementioned stutter. I have only one image selected in the logo screen and had not added any clock / calendar items to it. I had assumed that if I hit C that it would stay with the clock item I had selected.

02-23-2009, 11:52 AM	#29
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	The Beta9f version will contain code which totally skips logos whose time has been set to zero, so unnessesary stuttering will be eliminated. Regarding a pause when new logos are loaded, there is no issue to resolve. If a logo is big, it will take the computer a certain amount of time to load it. On my 5-year old XP machine, a 256x256 PNG file loads in the space of a single frame, so there's no glitch at all. On the clock issue, the idea was that if someone wanted to see what time it is, pressing the C key would interrupt the Logo playlist, and display a clock for 10 seconds. If they wanted a continuous clock, they can simply put it in the Logolist. Since you are the second person to ask about this, I may need to add some way of making the switch permanent. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2009, 12:09 PM	#31
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	It seems that I have figured it out . I still had the installer version on my machines , and it conflicted with 9e causing the crash . Since removing it , everything works fine . I think we can draw a line under this one now . But I suppose it is good to know that now you should only have one version on each computer . Run you clever boy. And remember...

02-23-2009, 05:56 AM	#21
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	The only strange effect I can duplicate is the expected effect of 'flashing in turn with low FPS', if all logos are set to 0 seconds. If MA3Logolist.lst is deleted, and logos are then added to the regenerated list, then the first logo stays on screen for approx 15 seconds, (as reported elsewhere), before each logo then starts to change at however many seconds they were set to. But as the "empty-playlist bug" is now fixed, - why on earth should we want to delete the MA3Logolist.lst ? The longer all this goes on, the more I'm convinced that all these bells and whistles are not worth it, and are a distraction to the whole project! I wish it didn't have ANY "songs" - OR clocks! .... It used to be all about fish and corals! - Anyone remember those days?

02-23-2009, 06:20 AM	#22
clifdene Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: UK Posts: 168	I could add dual monitors to songs & clocks!! Must admit I had three aquariums!! I well remember the days you mention. Looks as if these things are now more important than fish etc.

02-23-2009, 08:53 AM	#23
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	I've gone back to using 9b, it works how I want it to, - nice and simple! 9c, 9d, and 9e are too unnecessarily complicated and problematic, in my opinion. - Like all software, it's getting too complicated, - keep it simple!

02-23-2009, 10:24 AM	#25
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	I appreciate all that, Jim. And I can see that you are now committed to how you have implemented certain features. But to appeal to your mass wider target customer base, I think these interfaces are getting complicated. ..... We, can follow them, - but time alone will tell. .... Just my opinion, of course!

02-23-2009, 10:51 AM	#27
clifdene Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: UK Posts: 168	Roll on the clams!

02-23-2009, 12:05 PM	#30
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	I believe that the UI is well-designed and has the correct feature set. I don't think it is too complex. However, with any feature-rich UI, there are many opportunities for misunderstanding. https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...ead.php?t=4751

02-23-2009, 12:13 PM	#32
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Yes, that could explain it. But just to be sure, I put some more safeguards into the code. Beta9f will have them. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2009, 12:18 PM	#33
De Bobo Mon Registered Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 30	Jim, If I have only ONE logo in the list. Whenever the timer hits the system stutters, even though nothing is visibly changing. The image is a full color 256 x 256 jpg if that makes any difference. I have tested this on three systems that I have access to, all XP all 1.6 celeron to 3 ghz Pentium. While I have 9E installed I have never used the installer version to date.

02-23-2009, 12:21 PM	#34
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Again - jpegs are much more complex to load and decompress, so there will always be a lag compared to PNGs. Maybe I should just remove jpegs from the file filter. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2009, 12:24 PM	#35
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	Sorry , I meant to say we can draw a line under my personal bug . Very few people would ever delete the entire logo list , probably won't ever touch it after the initial set up , but I did some programming in my high school days and know that it's the debugging that often makes the difference between a good and bad piece of software ( if only the folks at iolo knew this... ) . So I tend to torture test . Jim , you asked what happened to my logo list after the crash . On the next run it would be there just as it was before I made the changes , with all my logos & clocks intact , which was nice because I didn't need to go and rebuild the list . Run you clever boy. And remember...

02-23-2009, 12:35 PM	#36
De Bobo Mon Registered Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 30	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Again - jpegs are much more complex to load and decompress, so there will always be a lag compared to PNGs. Maybe I should just remove jpegs from the file filter. So I guess you are saying that regardless of the fact that there is only one image in the list it reloads it whenever the timer triggers. And there is no way to tell it to just sit on the logo since there is nothing needed to be reloaded. (I had removed the SS Logo)

02-23-2009, 12:36 PM	#37
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I'm totally open to suggestions... Ok, - a few, slightly less-complex-to-operate, suggestions.... Clock:- The C key to be the one and only way to display and cycle through the three clocks and the calendar. This could be programed to override whatever was currently showing on the crystal, and could be displayed for only a limited period of time? - (Unless there was an option to, 'Stay On') Logos:- The 'Marine Aquarium 3' to be the default first-start-up logo, (of course! ). - Then have a space in the settings panel, to add the specified type of user logos, that would be shown in turn by using the L key. - Each one would remain on until the L key was pressed again to display the next logo. The 'Marine Aquarium 3' would return again, after the last 'user' logo. Music:- When the 'Music' option is selected, (yes, I know it will default to start 'On' ), the user's sound files of the specified type could be added to a similar space in the settings panel, and cycled through by using the N key. 'M' would remain as the Music On/Off toggle. 'B' as the Bubble On/Off toggle, etc, etc. I consider that these might be more acceptable ways for use by a less technical-savvy customer base. This product is aimed at the wider general public, - yes? ... Not computer nerds! - Right? If the problems encountered so far by contributors to this computer fan site are representative, - then the general public won't stand a chance! ps, ..... And God help any Customer Service department!

02-23-2009, 12:42 PM	#38
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by De Bobo Mon: So I guess you are saying that regardless of the fact that there is only one image in the list it reloads it whenever the timer triggers. And there is no way to tell it to just sit on the logo since there is nothing needed to be reloaded. (I had removed the SS Logo) Jim, that (don't cycle a 1-item list) should be relatively easy to implement, I suspect.

02-23-2009, 01:11 PM	#39
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	DeBoboMon - I am adding code to compare the name of the current file with the name of the next file, and if they are the same, ignore the change. Cliff - Clock: Are you saying that adding clocks into the logo rotation should not be an option? The second request seems to be the way it already works (override current logo for 10 seconds). With Beta9f, an Alt-C option will make the switch permanent. Logos: Adding a space in the listbox - with all the debugging of crashes - would take me at least a full day. Going back to manual-switching between the logos would require the hiring of "L-key Pressers" by all the businesses that want to use the Aquarium in kiosks to advertize their companies. (BTW -I just got another email from someone who wanted me to put his logo on the side of a fish!) Music: I know you hate the idea of music in the program, but penalizing those who like it by forcing them to press N to switch to the next song seems a bit mean. Not to mention the ill-will from their cubical-mates who have to listen to the same song repeated all through their lunch hour You are right about the contributers - I was surpirsed that the things which I considered so intuitive caused confusion. Well, at least this is the place to sort this stuff out before opening it up to wider release. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2009, 02:00 PM	#40
De Bobo Mon Registered Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 30	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: DeBoboMon - I am adding code to compare the name of the current file with the name of the next file, and if they are the same, ignore the change. Jim, I guess we were not communicating. I was pointing out what I thought to be a problem. I appreciate your making the change although I was only pointing out what I thought to be a visible bug, albeit a side effect of using a jpeg. Needless to say I have been around your product since the .99 days and greatly appreciate your work.