Progress? - Page 2

Jav400 · 05-31-2002, 08:23 PM

There have been several examples in the saltwater version, that would not cohabitate peacefully ( the planned eel and the octopus is a prime example ). Basically, Jim tries to make the movements and personalities realistic, but draws the line at fights or lunch.

He generally seems to use more of an artistic eye to make those inhabitant deceisions.

hpman77 · 06-01-2002, 10:49 AM

and I think I can speak for most of us when I say "thanks Jim for that!"

having so many limits when making real freshwater aquariums (I never had a saltwater one), it's great to have species together that would be impossible to have in a real tank. Sometimes you can't pick a fish you want on a real aquarium because you know it'll have a short live there, or that will cause problems to your aquarium residents

IXNAY · 06-02-2002, 10:29 AM

Hey Jim, when you'll release the first version of the freshwater aquarium wich status will it have? I should explain this question, well when you'll release the first version will it be like the first version of the saltwater aquarium or will it be like version 1.1 or will it have more features as version 1.1 of the saltwater aquarium? I hope you understood what I mean

I would prefer the first solution, develop the basics and release a beta

Jim Sachs · 06-03-2002, 10:55 AM

I don't have a final list of candidates for freshwater fish yet. You are right, I've tried to choose the saltwater fish population from those which would be reasonably compatible, but I can bend this rule a bit.

Here's the rule I have set: Creatures which would ordinarily not be kept together simply because of behavior will be allowed, and will only exhibit a mild form of their usual temperament (when I get around to programming species behavior). Creatures which would not survive in this tank because of physical conditions (temperature, size, salinity, etc.) will not be included.

At this time, I plan to allow cichlids and discus, but not goldfish or brackish water fish.

Jav400 · 06-03-2002, 08:05 PM

Personally I like those rules. There were several species that I had wanted to keep, but because of the incompatibility factor, I couldn't have the ones I really wanted.

Its a nice compromise, and you get to see things that wouldn't normally be possible.

James · 06-03-2002, 09:33 PM

No brackish water fish?
does that mean no figure 8 puffer?
oh well....but I remember that back to 8 yrs ago when I owned 3 figure 8 puffers, they were live perfectly in real freshwater for at least 2.5 yr.....

fubarhq · 06-06-2002, 01:24 AM

Thanks Jim, Looking forward to it.

CephaloP · 06-06-2002, 11:43 AM

Jim, are you going to take into account that most brackish water fish can be kept in fresh, especially if slowly adjusted to it? The pet store I used to work at had only fresh water tanks but kept several fish considered brackish or even salt water.

Also, I once read about a guy that slowly raised the salinity in a freshwater tank and slowly lowered it in a salt water tank, and after 10 years was keeping them all in the same tank- fish that would have been thought impossible to do so with due to salinity preferences.

Finally, if the freshwater Serenescreen tank is going to be similar in size to the salt one (200 gal I think it was?), that's large enough in reality to have a large arowana or two. I'm hoping you won't reject this as a possibility, given that they won't eat anything?

IXNAY · 06-06-2002, 11:49 AM

Sounds really interesting man

drfish · 06-06-2002, 01:28 PM

Sounds really untrue to me...

Digital Lungfish · 06-06-2002, 11:29 PM

No, it's true, Brackish water fish can adjust to live in fresh water tanks if done correctly. In fact, the figure 8 puffer is a perfect example. Come one Jim, bend the rules just a tiny bit more wont ya?

drfish · 06-07-2002, 12:54 PM

I know brackish water fish can become adjusted to freshwater and some even into complete saltwater (Monos, Scats, etc...) but if you want them to be as healthy as possible they need to be somewhere in-between.

What I thought sounded untrue was the guy who got freshwater and saltwater fish to live together over the course of 10 years of careful acclimation. I'm thinkin' CephaloP read something that wasn't completely true. Otherwise I'd like to know where he read it and what exact fish were involved; if he remembers...

BizarroTerl · 06-07-2002, 05:45 PM

Isn't 10 years a bit beyond the lifespan of most fish?

Jav400 · 06-07-2002, 08:33 PM

I had one or two salt water species that I was able to keep for that long. I don't know as much about freshwater, but I would guess that it is stretching the limits.

CephaloP · 06-08-2002, 02:53 PM

In the name of accuracy, that post should probably read "about 10 years or something". It was a year or two ago I ran across that story, and I don't remember the exact time it took, I just know it was a good while, with verrry gradual salinity change. I don't know what fish they were or even where I found the story, but it must have been at least a fairly reliable source, else I wouldn't have believed it myself

If I got REALLY lucky maybe I can find it again.

Maybe you could try a similar experiment, DrFish, and see what result you come up with?

Digital Lungfish · 06-10-2002, 02:04 AM

I don't know as much about freshwater, but I would guess that it is stretching the limits.

A good example of fish that live to a ripe and VERY old age are Koi. Even though they may not be tropical, they are still freshwater fish and can live upwards of 70 years. In some cases (although much less common) they have been known to live beyond 100 years old.

feldon34 · 06-10-2002, 03:41 AM

Doesn't a fish's life get boring after, oh, 3 weeks?

patscarr · 06-10-2002, 08:15 AM

Not SereneScreen fish!

drfish · 06-10-2002, 12:41 PM

Not if they can't remember their own existence for more than the previous 15 seconds... I think that's the stat I heard, for goldfish anyway. Kinda makes breeding difficult though...

I'm afraid I don't have the time/patience/resources/desire to do that CephaloP, but if you find that story bee sure you pass it on to us, I'd be interested to read it even if it was untrue.

05-31-2002, 08:23 PM	#21
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	There have been several examples in the saltwater version, that would not cohabitate peacefully ( the planned eel and the octopus is a prime example ). Basically, Jim tries to make the movements and personalities realistic, but draws the line at fights or lunch. He generally seems to use more of an artistic eye to make those inhabitant deceisions. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

06-01-2002, 10:49 AM	#22
hpman77 Blue Angel Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Santander (Spain) Posts: 285	and I think I can speak for most of us when I say "thanks Jim for that!" having so many limits when making real freshwater aquariums (I never had a saltwater one), it's great to have species together that would be impossible to have in a real tank. Sometimes you can't pick a fish you want on a real aquarium because you know it'll have a short live there, or that will cause problems to your aquarium residents .:: AMD Athlon XP 1700+ :: 512MB SDRAM :: Windows XP SP1 :: shappire ATI radeon 9600 PRO :: Soundblaster Live Player 5.1 :: Directx 9.0 :: (Always latest drivers for everything) ::.

06-02-2002, 10:29 AM	#23
IXNAY Green Frog Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 840	Hey Jim, when you'll release the first version of the freshwater aquarium wich status will it have? I should explain this question, well when you'll release the first version will it be like the first version of the saltwater aquarium or will it be like version 1.1 or will it have more features as version 1.1 of the saltwater aquarium? I hope you understood what I mean I would prefer the first solution, develop the basics and release a beta IXNAY dreaming of the serene terrarium - My Private Homepage -

06-03-2002, 10:55 AM	#24
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	I don't have a final list of candidates for freshwater fish yet. You are right, I've tried to choose the saltwater fish population from those which would be reasonably compatible, but I can bend this rule a bit. Here's the rule I have set: Creatures which would ordinarily not be kept together simply because of behavior will be allowed, and will only exhibit a mild form of their usual temperament (when I get around to programming species behavior). Creatures which would not survive in this tank because of physical conditions (temperature, size, salinity, etc.) will not be included. At this time, I plan to allow cichlids and discus, but not goldfish or brackish water fish. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-03-2002, 08:05 PM	#25
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Personally I like those rules. There were several species that I had wanted to keep, but because of the incompatibility factor, I couldn't have the ones I really wanted. Its a nice compromise, and you get to see things that wouldn't normally be possible. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

06-03-2002, 09:33 PM	#26
James Principal Engineer as SDET Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Was in Auckland, New Zealand, Now in Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 1,406	No brackish water fish? does that mean no figure 8 puffer? oh well....but I remember that back to 8 yrs ago when I owned 3 figure 8 puffers, they were live perfectly in real freshwater for at least 2.5 yr..... James C Chen Principal Engineer as SDET, Connected Services HTC Corporation 88 Section 3. Zhongxing Road Xindian District, New Taipei City 231, Taiwan www.htc.com

06-06-2002, 01:24 AM	#27
fubarhq Registered Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Dallas (NYC born & raised) Posts: 12	Thanks Jim, Looking forward to it. Dave "no one is worthless, you can always be used as a bad example."

06-06-2002, 11:43 AM	#28
CephaloP lurking in the shadows... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: just a few paces south o' the old willow Posts: 151	Jim, are you going to take into account that most brackish water fish can be kept in fresh, especially if slowly adjusted to it? The pet store I used to work at had only fresh water tanks but kept several fish considered brackish or even salt water. Also, I once read about a guy that slowly raised the salinity in a freshwater tank and slowly lowered it in a salt water tank, and after 10 years was keeping them all in the same tank- fish that would have been thought impossible to do so with due to salinity preferences. Finally, if the freshwater Serenescreen tank is going to be similar in size to the salt one (200 gal I think it was?), that's large enough in reality to have a large arowana or two. I'm hoping you won't reject this as a possibility, given that they won't eat anything?

06-06-2002, 11:49 AM	#29
IXNAY Green Frog Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 840	Sounds really interesting man IXNAY dreaming of the serene terrarium - My Private Homepage -

06-06-2002, 01:28 PM	#30
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Sounds really untrue to me... I don't watch commercials.

06-06-2002, 11:29 PM	#31
Digital Lungfish Obey the toad! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,557	No, it's true, Brackish water fish can adjust to live in fresh water tanks if done correctly. In fact, the figure 8 puffer is a perfect example. Come one Jim, bend the rules just a tiny bit more wont ya? Steve www.tron-sector.com - www.badcartridge.com - www.classicgaming.com - www.dinofish.com Today is the tomorrow you were worried about yesterday...

06-07-2002, 12:54 PM	#32
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	I know brackish water fish can become adjusted to freshwater and some even into complete saltwater (Monos, Scats, etc...) but if you want them to be as healthy as possible they need to be somewhere in-between. What I thought sounded untrue was the guy who got freshwater and saltwater fish to live together over the course of 10 years of careful acclimation. I'm thinkin' CephaloP read something that wasn't completely true. Otherwise I'd like to know where he read it and what exact fish were involved; if he remembers... I don't watch commercials.

06-07-2002, 05:45 PM	#33
BizarroTerl Registered Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13	Isn't 10 years a bit beyond the lifespan of most fish?

06-07-2002, 08:33 PM	#34
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	I had one or two salt water species that I was able to keep for that long. I don't know as much about freshwater, but I would guess that it is stretching the limits. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

06-08-2002, 02:53 PM	#35
CephaloP lurking in the shadows... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: just a few paces south o' the old willow Posts: 151	In the name of accuracy, that post should probably read "about 10 years or something". It was a year or two ago I ran across that story, and I don't remember the exact time it took, I just know it was a good while, with verrry gradual salinity change. I don't know what fish they were or even where I found the story, but it must have been at least a fairly reliable source, else I wouldn't have believed it myself If I got REALLY lucky maybe I can find it again. Maybe you could try a similar experiment, DrFish, and see what result you come up with?

06-10-2002, 02:04 AM	#36
Digital Lungfish Obey the toad! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,557	I don't know as much about freshwater, but I would guess that it is stretching the limits. A good example of fish that live to a ripe and VERY old age are Koi. Even though they may not be tropical, they are still freshwater fish and can live upwards of 70 years. In some cases (although much less common) they have been known to live beyond 100 years old. Steve www.tron-sector.com - www.badcartridge.com - www.classicgaming.com - www.dinofish.com Today is the tomorrow you were worried about yesterday...

06-10-2002, 03:41 AM	#37
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Doesn't a fish's life get boring after, oh, 3 weeks? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-10-2002, 08:15 AM	#38
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	Not SereneScreen fish! Patrick

06-10-2002, 12:41 PM	#39
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Not if they can't remember their own existence for more than the previous 15 seconds... I think that's the stat I heard, for goldfish anyway. Kinda makes breeding difficult though... I'm afraid I don't have the time/patience/resources/desire to do that CephaloP, but if you find that story bee sure you pass it on to us, I'd be interested to read it even if it was untrue. I don't watch commercials.