Automatic Notification of Updates - Page 2

feldon34 · 06-15-2010, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Dale:

That is clearly a flame and an attack, and clearly violates the forum rules.

I personally consider your statement to be insulting.

That does not mean that I have decided (yet) to quit participating.

Spare me throwing the forum rules in my own face. You've been getting away with murder. I get PMs all the time from people asking why I'm not doing anything about it.

Dale · 06-15-2010, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by feldon34:

I get PMs all the time from people asking why I'm not doing anything about it.

I don't know about those. You've never PM'd me about complaints. [Nor have I ever heard back from the Moderators when I've done "Report Post"]

I do understand that you own the forum, pay the bills, make the rules, and are absolutely entitled.

jleslie · 06-15-2010, 10:56 AM

The top page says:
"Active Members: 272"
"Most users ever online was 979, 07-03-2009 at 08:36 AM."
Which I assume (avoiding any more discussion of dates) was less than a year ago.
So it's not doing too bad for something so specific.
I get a bit annoyed by things several people say, or just some arguments, I'm sure I annoy people some times. I still think it's not all that bad.
I deleted the rest of my message, since people seem to be getting a bit too excited about stuff...
John

patscarr · 06-15-2010, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by feldon34:

This forum is 10 years old and has about 10 active members. That is a failure rivaled only by British Petroleum.

Interesting. What would you attribute this failure to? Jim's darn "G" rated rules?

Personally, I think it's because the novelty has worn off. When MA first came out, it was groundbreaking, but now, even with MA3, it's just another virtual aquarium. The graphics and code rewrite are groundbreaking for Jim, but nothing special compared to what 3D games, apps, etc... are out there, especially 10 years on.

Or it could be that Forums are for nerds!

feldon34 · 06-15-2010, 12:13 PM

Active members includes dozens of spammers.

There are 58 users who have posted at least once in the last month.

We have about 25 people actively posting on a weekly basis. I think that qualifies as a small to very small forum, activity wise.

feldon34 · 06-15-2010, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

I do understand that you own the forum, pay the bills, make the rules, and are absolutely entitled.

Jim pays the bills.

Thank you for adding an avatar. It's nice to see who I'm talking to.

Dale · 06-15-2010, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by feldon34:

I find it interesting that some of the posters in this thread do not have an avatar or profile pic.

I personally find avatars and profile pictures to be distracting and unimportant. However, I have now complied. Thanks for the reminder.

Jim Sachs · 06-15-2010, 12:25 PM

Hmmm, you're much younger than I thought.

Dale · 06-15-2010, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Hmmm, you're much younger than I thought.

Check my profile. But that is an actual picture of me. Background photoshopped.

patscarr · 06-15-2010, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by feldon34:

This forum is 10 years old and has about 10 active members. That is a failure rivaled only by British Petroleum.

No, really Morgan, I'd like to know what you attribute this failure too?

feldon34 · 06-15-2010, 04:06 PM

The response that new posters to this forum get is not one of Customer Service. They're immediately questioned and assumptions made. I think most new members of this forum are immediately intimidated by the strong personalities and lack of respect that certain members show to others.

I don't think people stay long enough to find out that we have other parts to the forum other than the Aquarium.

If we were posting frequently on compelling topics, and treated new members right, we'd attract an audience that would stick around.

A Google search for "Aquarium Screen Savers" shows SereneScreen.com as the #3 result. And this forum is 1 link away from SereneScreen.com.

I've thought about doing away with, or reducing the "fan site" per se and folding all of that into the Forum as special topics. But it's hard to get motivated to do anything these days.

dom5885 · 06-15-2010, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

They've already taken over, haven't they?
Whatever I may be considered to be, I am now enjoying MA less and less as each day goes by.
This used to be my favourite forum to visit..... Not any more!

Ditto!

It is interesting to compare this forum with that of Dream Aquarium (the other forum in which I lurk). The later is virtually moribund, though the product it supports is advancing at no slower pace than MA in the simulation sense.

From the viewpoint of this interested spectator, it appears that the 'inmates are taking over the asylum' in the MA forum. Jim Sachs and feldon34 must have the patience of Job.

Nevertheless, I still look forward to that sense of excitement when Jim Sachs (or spidermonkey2001 in the other place) announce a new 'simulation' feature in their wonderful products.

I hope that such an announcement will not be drowned out by the sheer volume of less important verbage in this place.

Dale · 06-15-2010, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by dom5885:

It is interesting to compare this forum with that of Dream Aquarium (the other forum in which I lurk). The later is virtually moribund, though the product it supports is advancing at no slower pace than MA in the simulation sense.

I took a brief look at the Dream Aquarium forum, and easily see what you mean. I hope you don't mind a question.

As someone who has been there a while, to what do you attribute that difference?

bozpool · 06-16-2010, 02:34 AM

Enough already !! Dale.

Originally posted by feldon34:

I think most new members of this forum are immediately intimidated by the strong personalities and lack of respect that certain members show to others.

I don't think people stay long enough to find out that we have other parts to the forum other than the Aquarium.

If we were posting frequently on compelling topics, and treated new members right, we'd attract an audience that would stick around.

Don’t these comments ring a bell to you?? Or you simply just chose to ignore?? Frankly, I haven't seen you participate on other non-serene screen saver topics but questioning on its trivia and nonsense.

JohnWho · 06-16-2010, 06:03 AM

I'm going to be brutally honest here -

Jim Sachs asks us to pick apart the betas he posts in order to ascertain bugs and other aspects regarding useability and appearance of the program that would improve it.

A few of us do exactly that and at the conclusion of the process Jim thanks us for our valluable participation, but now we have to put up with rude insults from other members and even some of the board staff!

My advice to my fellow participants in the recent beta process:

Illegitimi non carborundum

Meanwhile, MA 3.1 is out! I recommend folks download and enjoy it and chill out.

bozpool · 06-16-2010, 06:47 AM

Are you implying I am bastard having said that?? JohnWho. If you did,just said so,I don't mind,really.

It's Dale I am disagree with, not you. And, honestly, I even take no heed what you have done, of course, I don't care either. Please quit justifying yourself with "Jim asked for bugs and I just did that, Jim appreciated that." Which it's not an excuse giving all the privilege without rein by admins. If you not happy what the admins have implemented, just leaved, there’ll be other zealous yet, cordial members testing the bugs and helping Jim improved the program. And without doubt respect admins. Without You?? It doesn’t matter.

feldon34 · 06-16-2010, 06:47 AM

Does anyone besides Dale and JohnWho feel that I have been unfair or insulting? I'd like to know. I will not take action based on your posts in this thread. If you don't feel comfortable, send a PM to Jim Sachs.

Also in the interest of public disclosure, I did advise JohnWho a few weeks ago that he could be helpful to this site without falling into lockstep with Dale. There is no reason for him to get painted with the same brush.

JohnWho · 06-16-2010, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by bozpool:

Are you implying I am bastard having said that?? JohnWho. If you did,just said so,I don't mind,really.

bozpool -

I said, "My advice to my fellow participants in the recent beta process:", so, if you are one of those participants, it follows that you are not one of the "grinding down" folks.

I didn't keep track (and don't think anyone has) of who downloaded any of the betas and who participated in the threads to help Jim "troubleshoot" the improvements. It does seem a bit improper, to me, that folks who did not participate would now belittle those who did.

But, that's just me.

Just an observation.

bozpool · 06-16-2010, 07:09 AM

I have been lurking here a long times, and keep seeing Dale start a thread and then ignited unnecessary debates. I have seen another admin explicitly told Dale umpteen times about personal issue, besides giving advice to improve Jim’s work. The farce must be ended at someday.

Originally posted by JohnWho:

It does seem a bit improper, to me, that folks who did not participate would now belittle those who did. But, that's just me.

Sure,it's your opinions,how can I object with that?!

harris · 06-16-2010, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by feldon34:

Does anyone besides Dale and JohnWho feel that I have been unfair or insulting? I'd like to know.

I was hoping this situation would not spiral out of control, and I may regret saying this, but...

Feldon, you should have no regrets about how you have administered this website. As far as I can tell you have been very fair and patient.

Dale and JohnWho have contributed a great amount of assistance to Jim towards a better product. However, their recent fanaticism towards finding bugs and/or adding/changing features to MA3 that usually lead to other tangents has become distracting to the point that others are not participating as much anymore.

I don't have an answer to this situation except hopefully Dale and JohnWho will relax, smell the roses, relish in their accomplishments, and give others a chance to get more involved.

06-15-2010, 09:30 AM	#21
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Dale: That is clearly a flame and an attack, and clearly violates the forum rules. I personally consider your statement to be insulting. That does not mean that I have decided (yet) to quit participating. Spare me throwing the forum rules in my own face. You've been getting away with murder. I get PMs all the time from people asking why I'm not doing anything about it. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-15-2010, 11:28 AM	#24
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	Originally posted by feldon34: This forum is 10 years old and has about 10 active members. That is a failure rivaled only by British Petroleum. Interesting. What would you attribute this failure to? Jim's darn "G" rated rules? Personally, I think it's because the novelty has worn off. When MA first came out, it was groundbreaking, but now, even with MA3, it's just another virtual aquarium. The graphics and code rewrite are groundbreaking for Jim, but nothing special compared to what 3D games, apps, etc... are out there, especially 10 years on. Or it could be that Forums are for nerds! Patrick

06-15-2010, 12:13 PM	#25
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Active members includes dozens of spammers. There are 58 users who have posted at least once in the last month. We have about 25 people actively posting on a weekly basis. I think that qualifies as a small to very small forum, activity wise. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-15-2010, 12:15 PM	#26
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Dale: I do understand that you own the forum, pay the bills, make the rules, and are absolutely entitled. Jim pays the bills. Thank you for adding an avatar. It's nice to see who I'm talking to. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-15-2010, 12:25 PM	#28
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,790	Hmmm, you're much younger than I thought. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-15-2010, 10:19 AM	#22
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon34: I get PMs all the time from people asking why I'm not doing anything about it. I don't know about those. You've never PM'd me about complaints. [Nor have I ever heard back from the Moderators when I've done "Report Post"] I do understand that you own the forum, pay the bills, make the rules, and are absolutely entitled.

06-15-2010, 10:56 AM	#23
jleslie Engineer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,279	The top page says: "Active Members: 272" "Most users ever online was 979, 07-03-2009 at 08:36 AM." Which I assume (avoiding any more discussion of dates) was less than a year ago. So it's not doing too bad for something so specific. I get a bit annoyed by things several people say, or just some arguments, I'm sure I annoy people some times. I still think it's not all that bad. I deleted the rest of my message, since people seem to be getting a bit too excited about stuff... John

06-15-2010, 12:18 PM	#27
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon34: I find it interesting that some of the posters in this thread do not have an avatar or profile pic. I personally find avatars and profile pictures to be distracting and unimportant. However, I have now complied. Thanks for the reminder.

06-15-2010, 12:44 PM	#29
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Hmmm, you're much younger than I thought. Check my profile. But that is an actual picture of me. Background photoshopped.

06-15-2010, 02:32 PM	#30
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	Originally posted by feldon34: This forum is 10 years old and has about 10 active members. That is a failure rivaled only by British Petroleum. No, really Morgan, I'd like to know what you attribute this failure too? Patrick

06-15-2010, 04:06 PM	#31
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	The response that new posters to this forum get is not one of Customer Service. They're immediately questioned and assumptions made. I think most new members of this forum are immediately intimidated by the strong personalities and lack of respect that certain members show to others. I don't think people stay long enough to find out that we have other parts to the forum other than the Aquarium. If we were posting frequently on compelling topics, and treated new members right, we'd attract an audience that would stick around. A Google search for "Aquarium Screen Savers" shows SereneScreen.com as the #3 result. And this forum is 1 link away from SereneScreen.com. I've thought about doing away with, or reducing the "fan site" per se and folding all of that into the Forum as special topics. But it's hard to get motivated to do anything these days. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-15-2010, 04:23 PM	#32
dom5885 Registered Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17	Originally posted by cjmaddy: They've already taken over, haven't they? Whatever I may be considered to be, I am now enjoying MA less and less as each day goes by. This used to be my favourite forum to visit..... Not any more! Ditto! It is interesting to compare this forum with that of Dream Aquarium (the other forum in which I lurk). The later is virtually moribund, though the product it supports is advancing at no slower pace than MA in the simulation sense. From the viewpoint of this interested spectator, it appears that the 'inmates are taking over the asylum' in the MA forum. Jim Sachs and feldon34 must have the patience of Job. Nevertheless, I still look forward to that sense of excitement when Jim Sachs (or spidermonkey2001 in the other place) announce a new 'simulation' feature in their wonderful products. I hope that such an announcement will not be drowned out by the sheer volume of less important verbage in this place.

06-15-2010, 09:19 PM	#33
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by dom5885: It is interesting to compare this forum with that of Dream Aquarium (the other forum in which I lurk). The later is virtually moribund, though the product it supports is advancing at no slower pace than MA in the simulation sense. I took a brief look at the Dream Aquarium forum, and easily see what you mean. I hope you don't mind a question. As someone who has been there a while, to what do you attribute that difference?

06-16-2010, 02:34 AM	#34
bozpool Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31	Enough already !! Dale. Originally posted by feldon34: I think most new members of this forum are immediately intimidated by the strong personalities and lack of respect that certain members show to others. I don't think people stay long enough to find out that we have other parts to the forum other than the Aquarium. If we were posting frequently on compelling topics, and treated new members right, we'd attract an audience that would stick around. Don’t these comments ring a bell to you?? Or you simply just chose to ignore?? Frankly, I haven't seen you participate on other non-serene screen saver topics but questioning on its trivia and nonsense.

06-16-2010, 06:03 AM	#35
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	I'm going to be brutally honest here - Jim Sachs asks us to pick apart the betas he posts in order to ascertain bugs and other aspects regarding useability and appearance of the program that would improve it. A few of us do exactly that and at the conclusion of the process Jim thanks us for our valluable participation, but now we have to put up with rude insults from other members and even some of the board staff! My advice to my fellow participants in the recent beta process: Illegitimi non carborundum Meanwhile, MA 3.1 is out! I recommend folks download and enjoy it and chill out. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-16-2010, 06:47 AM	#36
bozpool Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31	Are you implying I am bastard having said that?? JohnWho. If you did,just said so,I don't mind,really. It's Dale I am disagree with, not you. And, honestly, I even take no heed what you have done, of course, I don't care either. Please quit justifying yourself with "Jim asked for bugs and I just did that, Jim appreciated that." Which it's not an excuse giving all the privilege without rein by admins. If you not happy what the admins have implemented, just leaved, there’ll be other zealous yet, cordial members testing the bugs and helping Jim improved the program. And without doubt respect admins. Without You?? It doesn’t matter.

06-16-2010, 06:54 AM	#38
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by bozpool: Are you implying I am bastard having said that?? JohnWho. If you did,just said so,I don't mind,really. bozpool - I said, "My advice to my fellow participants in the recent beta process:", so, if you are one of those participants, it follows that you are not one of the "grinding down" folks. I didn't keep track (and don't think anyone has) of who downloaded any of the betas and who participated in the threads to help Jim "troubleshoot" the improvements. It does seem a bit improper, to me, that folks who did not participate would now belittle those who did. But, that's just me. Just an observation. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-16-2010, 07:09 AM	#39
bozpool Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31	I have been lurking here a long times, and keep seeing Dale start a thread and then ignited unnecessary debates. I have seen another admin explicitly told Dale umpteen times about personal issue, besides giving advice to improve Jim’s work. The farce must be ended at someday. Originally posted by JohnWho: It does seem a bit improper, to me, that folks who did not participate would now belittle those who did. But, that's just me. Sure,it's your opinions,how can I object with that?!

06-16-2010, 07:39 AM	#40
harris Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 122	Originally posted by feldon34: Does anyone besides Dale and JohnWho feel that I have been unfair or insulting? I'd like to know. I was hoping this situation would not spiral out of control, and I may regret saying this, but... Feldon, you should have no regrets about how you have administered this website. As far as I can tell you have been very fair and patient. Dale and JohnWho have contributed a great amount of assistance to Jim towards a better product. However, their recent fanaticism towards finding bugs and/or adding/changing features to MA3 that usually lead to other tangents has become distracting to the point that others are not participating as much anymore. I don't have an answer to this situation except hopefully Dale and JohnWho will relax, smell the roses, relish in their accomplishments, and give others a chance to get more involved.