Beta 10 - Page 2

Dale · 04-13-2009, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by feldon33:

When you want the Aquarium to send its frames to the graphics card when it is ready, not before and not after.

This will prevent "juddering" or "tearing" for lack of better of word when the camera is moving as the viewport is showing before-and-after updates of the screen.

OK - so why wouldn't that be just the normal (default) behavior? Alternative question: when would I *NOT* want the "Wait for vertical sync" selected?

Jim Sachs · 04-13-2009, 03:52 PM

Smoother animation is possible if the program runs slightly faster than the screen refresh. Even though some of those frames get thrown away, there is always a frame ready to draw for each refresh of the monitor. Vertical Sync limits the frame rate to the refresh rate, so if the program has taken longer than (typically) 1/60th of a second to create a frame (due to other programs grabbing the CPU), it will have to skip the current refresh and wait until the next top-of-display signal from the monitor.

The main drawback is for systems (like mine) which can't maintain the same fps as the monitor. At 1920x1400x16, I get about 40 fps. But with Vertical Sync on, I'm limited to every-other-refresh, or 30 fps.

feldon34 · 04-13-2009, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

OK - so why wouldn't that be just the normal (default) behavior? Alternative question: when would I *NOT* want the "Wait for vertical sync" selected?

Well fortunately I'm not of the school of development where the program should just make arbitrary decisions for the customer assuming it knows best.

Dale · 04-13-2009, 04:47 PM

Jim, thanks for explaining.

Originally posted by feldon33:

Well fortunately I'm not of the school of development where the program should just make arbitrary decisions for the customer assuming it knows best.

Having read Jim's explanation of advantages and disadvantages, and "why it matters", I quite agree.

However, I'm not of the school of development where the program should provide an option with a name like "Wait for vertical sync", without some way for the normal user to get an explanation, or observe some behavior that might cause the user to change the option setting.

StuDisney · 04-13-2009, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Before sending email to Prolific, check the Keycodes section of the SereneScreen website.

Keycode section verifies my keycode.
but said I have to pay $9.95 to upgrade to 3.0
Befor I pay the money, don't I rember somthing about a discount for Beta testers?

Ralph · 04-13-2009, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I forgot to mention that this version also a Wait For Vertical Sync option in Display Settings.

This must be a card specific thing??? I do not see this option anyplace

Jim Sachs · 04-13-2009, 10:46 PM

StuDisney - Send me a PM with your info.

Ralph - If you have more than one monitor, the option did not show up on the Display Settings page in Beta10. It does in Beta10a, which I posted about an hour ago.

pvernam · 04-14-2009, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Before sending email to Prolific, check the Keycodes section of the SereneScreen website.

I did that, but it did not address the situation that I am in (see below).

Originally posted by StuDisney:

Keycode section verifies my keycode.
but said I have to pay $9.95 to upgrade to 3.0
Befor I pay the money, don't I rember somthing about a discount for Beta testers?

I don't recall there ever being a discount for beta testers, but Jim's initial post in the "Marine Aquarium 3 Beta RELEASE & DOWNLOAD" thread (dated 10-10-2008) says "Marine Aquarium 3 is free to recent purchasers of Marine Aquarium 2.6." I purchased an upgrade to MA2.6 (from 2.0, which had been an upgrade from the 1.0 CD version) on 10-11-2008, so I would think that would count as "recent". And, as I said earlier, this 2.6 keycode had worked fine all the way up through beta9m, but it does not work with beta10 (or beta10a), or with the "official" beta9m that I downloaded from the SereneScreen web site yesterday.

Ad_Enuff · 04-14-2009, 08:54 AM

For me Beta 10a isnt working at all. I have dual screens running on Windows XP SP2, Direct X9c March2009, Mobile Intel 945GM Graphics Card.

The error if you call it that, simply shows the settings panel and nothing else. Screensaver doesnt activate.

Last version ie 9M was working just fine.

Rosenfritz · 04-14-2009, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by feldon33:

When you want the Aquarium to send its frames to the graphics card when it is ready, not before and not after.

This will prevent "juddering" or "tearing" for lack of better of word when the camera is moving as the viewport is showing before-and-after updates of the screen.

Thank you!
1) I really thought I just couldn't see it (or it was where I wasn't looking).
2) It (Wait for Vertical...) completely solves the tearing (I think I called them artifacts, which might actually be a more accurate term, now that I read the reason for them...).
I realize that you "give to get" (as in all engineering), and that setting Monitor 2 to 16 bit (at least in my case) fixes it too, and you must be able to exceed the vertical interval with CPU processing to maintain 60Hz frame rate.... but oh, the beauty!
Thanks again for the feature, all!

Jim Sachs · 04-14-2009, 09:40 AM

pvernam - send me a private message with your info.

Ad_Enuf - That's a very odd bug. What happens when you right-click the icon and choose "Test"?

Rosenfritz - Glad it's working for you!

Ad_Enuff · 04-14-2009, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Ad_Enuf - That's a very odd bug. What happens when you right-click the icon and choose "Test"?

I've removed my registry Keys and gone back to using "TESTFISH" to test the screensaver.

So by right clicking and selecting Test it does the same, it pops up with the Registry TESTFISH then it pops up with the Marine Aquarium Settings pop up box then hangs and doesnt activate the screensaver.

This is installed on my Work laptop.......9M was working just fine before across both my dual screens.

Jim Sachs · 04-14-2009, 11:15 AM

This is a total mystery to me. Is anyone else having this problem?

Dale · 04-14-2009, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Ad_Enuff:

I've removed my registry Keys ....

Could it have something to do with this?

I would suggest the following:

1. Delete everything in C:\Documents and Settings\Username\Application Data\Marine Aquarium 3\ (or equivalent if you're using Vista)

2. Use the SereneScreen installer version to install 9m (Don't enter registration code).

3. Then repeat your test with version 10x.

Ralph · 04-14-2009, 08:15 PM

Beta 10 is the first beta to require the MA3 serial... all previous (beta's) would work if there was a valid SS2.6 serial... Which could account for Add_Enuff's woes.. (possibly?)

At least for me this (beta10) was the first time I had to use my MA3 serial

Jim Sachs · 04-14-2009, 09:26 PM

Ad_Enuff - have you tried renaming the file as an .exe, instead of an .scr?

wong01 · 04-15-2009, 01:36 AM

Any Beta 10 version with an installer?

Ad_Enuff · 04-15-2009, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Ad_Enuff - have you tried renaming the file as an .exe, instead of an .scr?

YES THAT WORKS! Why I have no idea!...thats a weird bug

Of course that doesnt solvethe overall bug...when its SCR it fails to run....when its an EXE it works. Also I've noticed a 50% hit in FPS

feldon34 · 04-15-2009, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by wong01:

Any Beta 10 version with an installer?

The installer version only changes every 4-6 weeks. There is no reason you cannot just download Beta 10 and run it.

Jim Sachs · 04-15-2009, 09:55 AM

Ad_Enuff - for some reason, your system is not recognizing the .scr filetype, and adding the proper program argument (-s in this case). When you double-click on the file, Windows is supposed to interpret it as "[filepath]MA3Beta.scr -s". You say that this is a work computer - is it possible that someone has disabled the screenaver capability on it?

04-13-2009, 03:52 PM	#22
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Smoother animation is possible if the program runs slightly faster than the screen refresh. Even though some of those frames get thrown away, there is always a frame ready to draw for each refresh of the monitor. Vertical Sync limits the frame rate to the refresh rate, so if the program has taken longer than (typically) 1/60th of a second to create a frame (due to other programs grabbing the CPU), it will have to skip the current refresh and wait until the next top-of-display signal from the monitor. The main drawback is for systems (like mine) which can't maintain the same fps as the monitor. At 1920x1400x16, I get about 40 fps. But with Vertical Sync on, I'm limited to every-other-refresh, or 30 fps. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-13-2009, 04:14 PM	#23
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Dale: OK - so why wouldn't that be just the normal (default) behavior? Alternative question: when would I *NOT* want the "Wait for vertical sync" selected? Well fortunately I'm not of the school of development where the program should just make arbitrary decisions for the customer assuming it knows best. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

04-13-2009, 10:13 PM	#25
StuDisney Registered Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: WDW/Orlando Fl. Posts: 44	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Before sending email to Prolific, check the Keycodes section of the SereneScreen website. Keycode section verifies my keycode. but said I have to pay $9.95 to upgrade to 3.0 Befor I pay the money, don't I rember somthing about a discount for Beta testers? "Our greatest natural resource is the minds of our children." “Growing Old is Mandatory - Growing Up Is Optional”

04-13-2009, 10:46 PM	#27
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	StuDisney - Send me a PM with your info. Ralph - If you have more than one monitor, the option did not show up on the Display Settings page in Beta10. It does in Beta10a, which I posted about an hour ago. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-14-2009, 08:54 AM	#29
Ad_Enuff Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	For me Beta 10a isnt working at all. I have dual screens running on Windows XP SP2, Direct X9c March2009, Mobile Intel 945GM Graphics Card. The error if you call it that, simply shows the settings panel and nothing else. Screensaver doesnt activate. Last version ie 9M was working just fine. AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, 3600.0 MHz, 16Gb DDR4 RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4Gb RAM, Windows 10 PRO 64Bit

04-13-2009, 03:36 PM	#21
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon33: When you want the Aquarium to send its frames to the graphics card when it is ready, not before and not after. This will prevent "juddering" or "tearing" for lack of better of word when the camera is moving as the viewport is showing before-and-after updates of the screen. OK - so why wouldn't that be just the normal (default) behavior? Alternative question: when would I *NOT* want the "Wait for vertical sync" selected?

04-13-2009, 04:47 PM	#24
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Jim, thanks for explaining. Originally posted by feldon33: Well fortunately I'm not of the school of development where the program should just make arbitrary decisions for the customer assuming it knows best. Having read Jim's explanation of advantages and disadvantages, and "why it matters", I quite agree. However, I'm not of the school of development where the program should provide an option with a name like "Wait for vertical sync", without some way for the normal user to get an explanation, or observe some behavior that might cause the user to change the option setting.

04-13-2009, 10:29 PM	#26
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I forgot to mention that this version also a Wait For Vertical Sync option in Display Settings. This must be a card specific thing??? I do not see this option anyplace

04-14-2009, 06:53 AM	#28
pvernam wobbegong Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Nahant, MA Posts: 37	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Before sending email to Prolific, check the Keycodes section of the SereneScreen website. I did that, but it did not address the situation that I am in (see below). Originally posted by StuDisney: Keycode section verifies my keycode. but said I have to pay $9.95 to upgrade to 3.0 Befor I pay the money, don't I rember somthing about a discount for Beta testers? I don't recall there ever being a discount for beta testers, but Jim's initial post in the "Marine Aquarium 3 Beta RELEASE & DOWNLOAD" thread (dated 10-10-2008) says "Marine Aquarium 3 is free to recent purchasers of Marine Aquarium 2.6." I purchased an upgrade to MA2.6 (from 2.0, which had been an upgrade from the 1.0 CD version) on 10-11-2008, so I would think that would count as "recent". And, as I said earlier, this 2.6 keycode had worked fine all the way up through beta9m, but it does not work with beta10 (or beta10a), or with the "official" beta9m that I downloaded from the SereneScreen web site yesterday.

04-14-2009, 08:57 AM	#30
Rosenfritz Registered Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Juan Capistrano, CA Posts: 10	Originally posted by feldon33: When you want the Aquarium to send its frames to the graphics card when it is ready, not before and not after. This will prevent "juddering" or "tearing" for lack of better of word when the camera is moving as the viewport is showing before-and-after updates of the screen. Thank you! 1) I really thought I just couldn't see it (or it was where I wasn't looking). 2) It (Wait for Vertical...) completely solves the tearing (I think I called them artifacts, which might actually be a more accurate term, now that I read the reason for them...). I realize that you "give to get" (as in all engineering), and that setting Monitor 2 to 16 bit (at least in my case) fixes it too, and you must be able to exceed the vertical interval with CPU processing to maintain 60Hz frame rate.... but oh, the beauty! Thanks again for the feature, all!

04-14-2009, 09:40 AM	#31
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	pvernam - send me a private message with your info. Ad_Enuf - That's a very odd bug. What happens when you right-click the icon and choose "Test"? Rosenfritz - Glad it's working for you! Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-14-2009, 09:53 AM	#32
Ad_Enuff Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Ad_Enuf - That's a very odd bug. What happens when you right-click the icon and choose "Test"? I've removed my registry Keys and gone back to using "TESTFISH" to test the screensaver. So by right clicking and selecting Test it does the same, it pops up with the Registry TESTFISH then it pops up with the Marine Aquarium Settings pop up box then hangs and doesnt activate the screensaver. This is installed on my Work laptop.......9M was working just fine before across both my dual screens. AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, 3600.0 MHz, 16Gb DDR4 RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4Gb RAM, Windows 10 PRO 64Bit

04-14-2009, 11:15 AM	#33
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	This is a total mystery to me. Is anyone else having this problem? Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-14-2009, 05:17 PM	#34
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Ad_Enuff: I've removed my registry Keys .... Could it have something to do with this? I would suggest the following: 1. Delete everything in C:\Documents and Settings\Username\Application Data\Marine Aquarium 3\ (or equivalent if you're using Vista) 2. Use the SereneScreen installer version to install 9m (Don't enter registration code). 3. Then repeat your test with version 10x.

04-14-2009, 08:15 PM	#35
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	Beta 10 is the first beta to require the MA3 serial... all previous (beta's) would work if there was a valid SS2.6 serial... Which could account for Add_Enuff's woes.. (possibly?) At least for me this (beta10) was the first time I had to use my MA3 serial

04-14-2009, 09:26 PM	#36
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Ad_Enuff - have you tried renaming the file as an .exe, instead of an .scr? Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-15-2009, 01:36 AM	#37
wong01 Registered Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: malaysia Posts: 6	Beta 10 Any Beta 10 version with an installer?

04-15-2009, 02:27 AM	#38
Ad_Enuff Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Ad_Enuff - have you tried renaming the file as an .exe, instead of an .scr? YES THAT WORKS! Why I have no idea!...thats a weird bug Of course that doesnt solvethe overall bug...when its SCR it fails to run....when its an EXE it works. Also I've noticed a 50% hit in FPS AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, 3600.0 MHz, 16Gb DDR4 RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4Gb RAM, Windows 10 PRO 64Bit Last edited by Ad_Enuff; 04-15-2009 at 09:19 AM.

04-15-2009, 07:35 AM	#39
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by wong01: Any Beta 10 version with an installer? The installer version only changes every 4-6 weeks. There is no reason you cannot just download Beta 10 and run it. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

04-15-2009, 09:55 AM	#40
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Ad_Enuff - for some reason, your system is not recognizing the .scr filetype, and adding the proper program argument (-s in this case). When you double-click on the file, Windows is supposed to interpret it as "[filepath]MA3Beta.scr -s". You say that this is a work computer - is it possible that someone has disabled the screenaver capability on it? Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium