Should MA3 have default music?

[sccannon]

Hi Jim,
I'm all for the music. Might not use it much, but it's nice to know I have the option to listen to it if I want to.

[Wizwad]

Just regarding splash screens, I know that some programs have a default "Hints & Tips" screen that you can check a box on to make it stop. That might be useful here for the purposes of informing new users.

[Jav400]

Jim I think the music is ~ok. In all honesty I doubt that you would include the file size that it would take to get most of the people here to agree that it was ok with them. It sounds "normal" on my machines and I would guess that it is fairly near what you are hearing on yours.

Personally if I am going to listen to something like your default choice I want to feel like I am standing there and can hear the sound of fingers sliding on strings, and can pick out the positions of the instruments and so forth and feel a real presence of the wind instruments and so on. I doubt you are going to be able to do that and get anywhere near the file size you want, or find much to do it with other than a studio recording to start with, which to me defeats the purpose. Anything else to me is a moot point.

I think you just need to get it to where you are satisfied with the compromise between sound and file size to your taste and let the rest of us do as we will.


As for the rest, I agree that something needs to be done at the beginning to allow the "masses" to see the settings and look at the options since most don't have any idea of the true options available. Think "lemmings" and led them to where you want them to go.

[henemly]

I was wondering why not have both, bubble sound and music?
My machine does not even have a great sound card, and can play 2
different sounds at the same time. ie, wav, mp3, midi, etc.
(it's Realtek HD, IBM)

[cjmaddy]

... In my best soothing voice! .....

sccannon, - You are more than welcome to listen to the music any time you want. The choice will be yours. - But do you want just the one tune to be the default sound, in place of the current default bubble sound?

You will always have the option to listen to any other tune you care to place into a playlist. (In addition to the one Jim is working on).

There, was that soothing enough?

[Jim Sachs]

The bubble sound and music have separate check-boxes. You will be able to check either, both, or none.

Whether the default position should be "Both" is another discussion (but not for this group )

And just to drive home what Cliff just said - What we are talking about here is the DEFAULT position of the checkboxes, not the fact that music capabilities will be available (they will.) The only question is what the user hears the VERY FIRST time he starts up MA3, before he has pointed the program to any of his own music or even looked at the user interface. If the user doesn't like my choice, he can simply press the "M" key and it's gone (and won't ever come back unless the "M" key is pressed again or the checkbox is marked in the user interface).

[ESHIREY]

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

26 to 1 - so it's about even then. Math never was my thing

As a statistical sample, the poll had be be extremely skewed. By thier very presence in the Forum, everyone has proven to be computer-savvy enough to find their way here. It's kind of like asking a group of geniuses if idiots should be allowed to vote. Also, I'm convinced that not one of you has heard the music in its intended fidelity.  

I know I didn't say anything about the music so I think now I will. I liked it. It sounds really good on my setup. I know some of you don't like the strings but being a musician I think it was done very well. I just thought I would let you know Jim.

[Yodelking]

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

Isn't YK just saying that he likes that ability? - As indeed I do!  

Exactly! I pay attention!

[cjmaddy]

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

..... Also, I'm convinced that not one of you has heard the music in its intended fidelity.  

Sorry, Jim, - wrong again I'm afraid. - I have at least two versions in my record collection, (not counting LPs), which I got out when you first posted it. - I wanted to make sure of my recollection of what it could sound like! .... Or will you allow me to make that a ....

ps, .... And don't even think of questioning the fidelity of my record playback equipment!

[Jim Sachs]

No, what I meant is that I'm fairly certain that none of you has heard THIS instance properly (when you start MA3). Each machine has it's own built-in MIDI sounds, and if the strings don't sound realistic, then you are not hearing what I'm hearing. No one is more critical of synthesized music then I am, and I could listen to this all day (in fact, I do!).

[Tiny Turtle]

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

Tiny, - No it doesn't. - This poll is simply, Should MA3 have default music? - nothing more, nothing less.  

I agree. I do however feel that many voted no based on the fact that they themselves wouldn't like music instead of considering if having music would be better for computer illiterates. Since you made the poll I can't say if it was intended to answer that or not, but if people only vote based on how they would like their copy to behave the voting results doesn't help Jim.

Note that I neither believe it should have music on for the noobs nor for myself - just that the results don't help Jim.

[Wizwad]

Actually, I have to side a bit with Henemly here. IF one can only have one or the other then I think the bubble sound will be best, otherwise - if you can't get the MIDI sounding superb - the reaction of the 'common' user will be, "Yuck - love the screensaver, but that music is just horrid, and why isn't there any sound of bubbles?!" BUT if you can have both then it should start up with both bubbles and MIDI.

I don't know why, but hearing a musical background with no bubbles bubbling just makes me feel there's something missing from the program, even though I *know* there isn't. Or it makes me feel as if my third ear has gone deaf or something.

[Ralph]

I would repeat my point when I took the survey..

Those that install the screen saver and do not bother looking at the setup parameters.. get a default aquarium screen saver.. a default number of fish and default bubbles.

Those that bother looking into the parameters can be pleasantly surprised by finding that there are more fish to select from.. possible variations in behavior.. light play.. AND the ability to play music.

Perhaps... Jim could code a fish to drag a sign.. much like an airplane with an advertising banner.. to explain that there are options... IF.. a number of instances of the screen saver starting in an absolute default position has occurred.

[cjmaddy]

Jim, A little reminiscence.....

When Nick was a young child, there was a TV program called Magic Roundabout, containing a character call Brian, (a snail!). - He was the brains of the outfit. He would make profound statements on occasions. - A memorable one he once made, (the narrator was a Fulham fan), was in reference to one of the other characters going to see Fulham play football. - Brian's instant retort was, Watching Fulham play football? - That's a contradiction in terms! .... I have remembered that, and use it to this day....

Realistic string sounds, and synthesized, "music"? in the same sentence? .... That, is a contradiction in terms!

Tiny, - well, they obviously haven't! - (Helped Jim, that is!). So the whole exercise was a waste of time!

[Jim Sachs]

Cliff - Realistic synthesized instruments do exist - not that I can afford the bytes in my program. I have a friend who composes for movies and TV. He used to have the London Symphony Orchestra record the final versions, but now everything can be done in his computer room. No one can tell the difference. My wife and I were astounded at how good it sounded.

[cjmaddy]

They can indeed make some astonishing simulations these days. But I've yet to hear one that doesn't sound like any other typical modern multi-track monstrosity, ie, what I hear and call, multi-channel mono! - Instead of genuine real stereophonic sound. - I think you will find that there are many like me, who would recognise the difference immediately.

[Jim Sachs]

Yes, and I'm one of them. A year ago I would have said that I'd be the last man standing on the acoustic side of the line, but (just like with digital photography), I have been won-over.

[cjmaddy]

Jim, I don't believe it's acoustic vs digital necessarily. - That RPO disc is a DDD from 1994. Most of that series are quite good! One of only a few series of recording, IMO, worth listening to that have been made post late 1950s early 1960s. Most of that set owe their quality to having been recorded in a suitable venue, as opposed to in a studio where the mixing desk is the only hope of producing a life-like so called stereo presentation. - The comparison to digital vs film photography, is none existent in my opinion. The nearest would be making a CD of an analog recording, which some think is still not possible. - But I've got a cupboard full that won me over some years ago! - The difference, being the original recording venues and the techniques used.

I am prepared to be won-over, but I seriously don't think it will ever happen. Point me in the direction of a recording, made entirely in a computer room, and I will give it a listen. But don't hold your breath, I'm very critical when it comes to recorded sound!

[Jim Sachs]

When I get some time, I'll find one for you, but right now I'm too busy looking for low-byte-count pro-digitized instruments for my own project

[patscarr]

Okay. Now, we can't just point Cliff to one recording made entirely in a computer room. He'll know what to expect. We'll have to try and trick him. We'll have to find a couple recordings made entirely in a computer room and a couple recordings made the normal way. Then he has to listen to all of them and tell us which are which.