Dual Monitors - Page 3

drfish · 10-18-2004, 03:31 AM

Yeah, most of the bigger screen still don't have the magic 16ms speed that people seem to say is the line in the sand between playable and not playable... Suprisingly though there are 23" wide screen monitors out there that do 16ms, but very few 21" and the 21s cost less than half of the 23s...

I love my CRT, I've seen plenty of LCDs but none of them has ever really made me want to switch... I don't need and LCD for space/heat/power reasons so I don't see myself switching anytime soon... For that kind of money I could get that much nicer of a CRT, and there are VERY nice CRTs to be had out there...

cjmaddy · 10-18-2004, 04:55 AM

Edit in previous post, - I meant photo when I said 'screen shot' - It was 2:07am! - I had been trying to place a different wallpaper on each monitor. ..... I finally managed it!

Yes, - CRT still rules, but 'on axis' LCDs are getting better! ..... Now if they only had a black background.

BUT! ..... I am revising my views about the lack of black! - When the LCD first starts up, the background is dark grey relative to the Sony CRT, but when Windows has finished loading, and both screens have snapped into the various brightness and contrast settings etc, there is no apparent difference (on axis) between the blacks contained within a picture. It is only a totally blank screen at startup that appears dark grey, - and mainly caused by the excessive brightness 'out of the box'! - IMO.

Tack Calle,

- sjuttionde! ..... (I think!)

Tiny Turtle · 10-18-2004, 05:36 AM

You think correctly. I reach trettio on the sextonde of December – Hundra tillsammans...

Jav400 · 10-18-2004, 05:43 AM

You old codger you.

cjmaddy · 10-18-2004, 05:49 AM

feldon34 · 10-18-2004, 08:40 AM

Black is still elusive on LCDs. People get so excited about the brightness level of LCDs (probably just regurgitating marketing hype) but pay little attention to black which is actually grey.

rem · 10-19-2004, 01:38 AM

the gray instead of black you guys are talking about on a lcd monitor...does this affect rgb anolog input only, or does it apply to dvi input as well. i've noticed that the difference in "blackness" is huge, but i can't tell if the black in a dvi lcd is actually black or just an even darker gray than in a rgb lcd monitor.

cjmaddy · 10-19-2004, 06:25 AM

rem,

I am new to dual monitors and to LCDs, so I can only comment on what is happening on my system at this present time.
I was well aware of the lack of blackness, from what I had read and seen on other peoples lap tops etc. - But on this ViewSonic I have just set up, there are settings on the monitor, and there are many more settings in the video card's drivers Display Settings. - Careful use of these combined adjustments can create a very satisfying "black".
I am using the DVI input to the LCD. - On start up, the blackness difference between CRT and LCD is clear to see on the virtually blank screens, that only have a little text flashing by. But after Windows has finished loading and all the settings have kicked in, the blackness is VERY acceptable. - If what I am getting is typical of what is now possible, then all the talk of grey blacks is somewhat exaggerated, - IMHO!

I wish I could show just how black the black is in the picture I am looking at at this moment, - it's superb!

feldon34 · 10-19-2004, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by rem
the gray instead of black you guys are talking about on a lcd monitor...does this affect rgb anolog input only, or does it apply to dvi input as well. i've noticed that the difference in "blackness" is huge

The black is entirely due to backlighting. They will have to improve the light-blocking ability of LCD crystals to produce an LCD display that ranges from pure black to pure white.

patscarr · 10-19-2004, 08:06 AM

I have to disagree with you guys. I'm looking at this forum, which has a black background, and I see a deep rich black color on my LCD monitor.

Marian Nichols · 10-19-2004, 08:33 AM

I also see pure black on mine. Even when I hold a black object up to it, it is still black. I have more trouble with pure white.

cjmaddy · 10-19-2004, 08:48 AM

Ok, here we go! - This may not be very scientific, but trust me, - those blacks are BLACK!

The real live image, using DVI and 1280x1024, is pin sharp and - on axis, - is as black as you could wish for!

Jav400 · 10-19-2004, 10:17 AM

Cliff,

That looks pretty good, but like you say, it's hard to tell from this. Maybe if you did a screen capture and posted that, it might show up better. Of course that still doesn't allow for individual settings on people's monitors that they are viewing with. If those are off, it will still look different.

cjmaddy · 10-19-2004, 11:05 AM

Yep! - that's the problem. If I post a screen capture, it's just a bunch of code that will be interpreted by the recipient browser and monitor, .... you can't win can you!

You could always call round and have a look!

Wizwad · 10-19-2004, 05:31 PM

Why not hold a black object up against the screen and take a photograph? Or have Jean hold the object up - just imagine: we could be treated to a photo of the Hand Of Jean!

feldon34 · 10-19-2004, 07:07 PM

If that's black, then I need to have my eyes adjusted.

Jav400 · 10-19-2004, 08:14 PM

Ah, but how do you know what he is holding up is really black? Maybe he just wants to play with your mind.

patscarr · 10-19-2004, 10:47 PM

Looks like Morgan has an appointment with the optomatrist.

It's black to me.

Tiny Turtle · 10-20-2004, 01:58 AM

How about positioning the monitors a bit apart (to avoid interference) and then show an all black screen on both (i.e. a black image – not turned off). Then turn the lights in the room off and snap a photo (with the camera on a tripod) to see which screen emits the most light although they ideally shouldn't at all.

/Tiny Outside of the Box

P.S.
I agree with Morgan – the borders on that monitor are washed out on my calibrated monitor here at work.

Jav400 · 10-20-2004, 03:55 AM

I judged from the tires. Parts of the border look different, which I considered to be a factor of glare from a different source.

10-18-2004, 03:31 AM	#41
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Yeah, most of the bigger screen still don't have the magic 16ms speed that people seem to say is the line in the sand between playable and not playable... Suprisingly though there are 23" wide screen monitors out there that do 16ms, but very few 21" and the 21s cost less than half of the 23s... I love my CRT, I've seen plenty of LCDs but none of them has ever really made me want to switch... I don't need and LCD for space/heat/power reasons so I don't see myself switching anytime soon... For that kind of money I could get that much nicer of a CRT, and there are VERY nice CRTs to be had out there... I don't watch commercials.

10-18-2004, 05:36 AM	#43
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	You think correctly. I reach trettio on the sextonde of December – Hundra tillsammans... Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

10-18-2004, 05:43 AM	#44
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	You old codger you. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-18-2004, 08:40 AM	#46
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Black is still elusive on LCDs. People get so excited about the brightness level of LCDs (probably just regurgitating marketing hype) but pay little attention to black which is actually grey. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-19-2004, 01:38 AM	#47
rem Registered Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: southern ca, usa Posts: 13	the gray instead of black you guys are talking about on a lcd monitor...does this affect rgb anolog input only, or does it apply to dvi input as well. i've noticed that the difference in "blackness" is huge, but i can't tell if the black in a dvi lcd is actually black or just an even darker gray than in a rgb lcd monitor. another tang

10-18-2004, 04:55 AM	#42
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Edit in previous post, - I meant photo when I said 'screen shot' - It was 2:07am! - I had been trying to place a different wallpaper on each monitor. ..... I finally managed it! Yes, - CRT still rules, but 'on axis' LCDs are getting better! ..... Now if they only had a black background. BUT! ..... I am revising my views about the lack of black! - When the LCD first starts up, the background is dark grey relative to the Sony CRT, but when Windows has finished loading, and both screens have snapped into the various brightness and contrast settings etc, there is no apparent difference (on axis) between the blacks contained within a picture. It is only a totally blank screen at startup that appears dark grey, - and mainly caused by the excessive brightness 'out of the box'! - IMO. Tack Calle, - sjuttionde! ..... (I think!)

10-18-2004, 05:49 AM	#45
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854

10-19-2004, 06:25 AM	#48
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	rem, I am new to dual monitors and to LCDs, so I can only comment on what is happening on my system at this present time. I was well aware of the lack of blackness, from what I had read and seen on other peoples lap tops etc. - But on this ViewSonic I have just set up, there are settings on the monitor, and there are many more settings in the video card's drivers Display Settings. - Careful use of these combined adjustments can create a very satisfying "black". I am using the DVI input to the LCD. - On start up, the blackness difference between CRT and LCD is clear to see on the virtually blank screens, that only have a little text flashing by. But after Windows has finished loading and all the settings have kicked in, the blackness is VERY acceptable. - If what I am getting is typical of what is now possible, then all the talk of grey blacks is somewhat exaggerated, - IMHO! I wish I could show just how black the black is in the picture I am looking at at this moment, - it's superb!

10-19-2004, 07:58 AM	#49
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by rem the gray instead of black you guys are talking about on a lcd monitor...does this affect rgb anolog input only, or does it apply to dvi input as well. i've noticed that the difference in "blackness" is huge The black is entirely due to backlighting. They will have to improve the light-blocking ability of LCD crystals to produce an LCD display that ranges from pure black to pure white. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-19-2004, 08:06 AM	#50
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	I have to disagree with you guys. I'm looking at this forum, which has a black background, and I see a deep rich black color on my LCD monitor. Patrick

10-19-2004, 08:33 AM	#51
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	I also see pure black on mine. Even when I hold a black object up to it, it is still black. I have more trouble with pure white. Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

10-19-2004, 10:17 AM	#53
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Cliff, That looks pretty good, but like you say, it's hard to tell from this. Maybe if you did a screen capture and posted that, it might show up better. Of course that still doesn't allow for individual settings on people's monitors that they are viewing with. If those are off, it will still look different. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-19-2004, 11:05 AM	#54
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Yep! - that's the problem. If I post a screen capture, it's just a bunch of code that will be interpreted by the recipient browser and monitor, .... you can't win can you! You could always call round and have a look!

10-19-2004, 05:31 PM	#55
Wizwad Only me... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 2,584	Why not hold a black object up against the screen and take a photograph? Or have Jean hold the object up - just imagine: we could be treated to a photo of the Hand Of Jean! Mark ----------- Intel i7 12700K \| Aorus Z690 Pro \| Corsair DDR5 5600 32GB \| Asus Dual RTX3060ti 6GB v2 Mini OC \| Corsair RM850 Gold PSU \| 1TB NVMe M.2 WD Black SN850 \| 4TB Seagate BarraCuda HDD \| Corsair Airflow 5000D Case \| HP 32QHD 4K Monitor \| Windows 11 x64 Professional

10-19-2004, 07:07 PM	#56
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	If that's black, then I need to have my eyes adjusted. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-19-2004, 08:14 PM	#57
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Ah, but how do you know what he is holding up is really black? Maybe he just wants to play with your mind. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-19-2004, 10:47 PM	#58
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	Looks like Morgan has an appointment with the optomatrist. It's black to me. Patrick

10-20-2004, 01:58 AM	#59
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	How about positioning the monitors a bit apart (to avoid interference) and then show an all black screen on both (i.e. a black image – not turned off). Then turn the lights in the room off and snap a photo (with the camera on a tripod) to see which screen emits the most light although they ideally shouldn't at all. /Tiny Outside of the Box P.S. I agree with Morgan – the borders on that monitor are washed out on my calibrated monitor here at work. Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

10-20-2004, 03:55 AM	#60
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	I judged from the tires. Parts of the border look different, which I considered to be a factor of glare from a different source. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection