Feature Request Crystal and Clock - Page 3

jroseone · 11-19-2008, 08:53 PM

I posted this in the crystal distortion thread, but this is really a different issue.

Some times the crystal is not see through.

Fish swim behind it and you can't see them until they come out on the other side.

Other times it's fine or it starts out where you can't see through it and then becomes see through when the fish swims through.

henemly · 11-19-2008, 09:03 PM

Nice job, Jim. The location is nice, however, the instant I saw it, it looked so tiny. I think it should be bigger. This is a 25% size increase.
25percent.jpg
ps- well, maybe that's a bit to bigger. Perhaps a 10% increase.

Jim Sachs · 11-19-2008, 09:36 PM

The crystal is always transparent (you can see the background color change when you turn the lights up or down). I mentioned in another thread that there is no collision-avoidance around the crystal. When a fish is near the back of the crystal, it might be rendered either before or after the crystal. If it is rendered first, you can see it. If the crystal is rendered first, then the fish wouldn't be rendered at all, since the pixels would be higher in the z-buffer. When collision-avoidance is in, the fish will not be able to get that close to the back of the crystal, so it won't be a problem.

The size of the crystal won't be changing. A 256x256 logo is projected perfectly on it now. Any bigger and the texture would be stretched and blurry.

henemly · 11-20-2008, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

The size of the crystal won't be changing. A 256x256 logo is projected perfectly on it now. Any bigger and the texture would be stretched and blurry.

Sorry, your right. It just looked different than v2.6 I was used to looking at. Both these versions are at the same resolution.
new2.jpg old2.jpg

Jim Sachs · 11-20-2008, 08:35 PM

I'm trying to figure out the best way to allow users to put logos on the crystal. You would be able to load PNG files, and use the keyboard to move the logo up-down / right-left and make it larger or smaller. The question is, how to save that data so that it is linked with that particular logo? The PNG files would just be floating around in the same directory as MA3, so they are susceptable to being moved or deleted.

feldon34 · 11-20-2008, 10:07 PM

I'd like to see a Logos folder inside Marine Aquarium folder in Program Files.

Jim Sachs · 11-20-2008, 10:34 PM

Even if there were a Logos folder, I'm still not sure how the program would match up the coordinates with each logo. If the program knows that logo #6 is supposed to be 4 pixels to the left of center, and then someone removes that file from the folder, then the next one in line gets displayeyd wrong.

feldon34 · 11-20-2008, 11:44 PM

Can you load the PNG, modify it, and re-save it?

Jim Sachs · 11-21-2008, 12:04 AM

Maybe.

Edit: I've done some research and experiments on the PNG standard, and it looks like I can add a few bytes after the iEND chunk without harming the file. This is probably the best way to store the information. My program would load the picture, look for the custom bytes at the end, use them if they are there, otherwise default to the normal position for the logo. I don't have Photoshop, but PaintShop Pro still loads the file normally with my extra bytes at the end. When PSP re-saves the file, the bytes are gone, so if you modify the picture, you'll need to recenter it.

StuDisney · 11-21-2008, 06:38 AM

Good to have the Crystal back. was Color possible in MA2.6, mine were all B&W

Jav400 · 11-21-2008, 07:02 AM

yes

Stew2000 · 11-21-2008, 08:56 AM

Can't wait to put my one in 3.0

dlorde · 11-22-2008, 07:36 AM

I just ran the 7b beta, with crystal showing, and although it looks great, fish swim right through it, from front to back and from back to front - is this due to the lack of collision avoidance?

Also, when a fish is in front of the crystal, facing forward or back, its fins sometimes appear to become detached (or the fin 'roots' becomes transparent) - this is really noticeable with the lion fish, which becomes quite strangely ethereal, with it's outer fins clearly separated from its body. It's as if the crystal transparency in the background is making those parts of the fish transparent.

Using WinXP, NVidia GeForce 6800(latest drivers) @1280x1024.

Jav400 · 11-22-2008, 07:41 AM

There isn't any collision detection for the crystal. Right now Jim is just doing a test of the crystal itself. As far as the fish are concerned, it isn't there yet. That will be added later.

Jim Sachs · 11-24-2008, 03:08 AM

Morgan (feldon32) runs the Forum, and is the expert on how to get data uploaded.

As far as the actual MA3 program is concerned, PNG files will be necessary to be used as logos. The size is 256x256 pixels. Try not to too close to the edges.

I just uploaded Beta 7e. Besides the program itself, the ZIP file contains a logo file called SSLogo256d.png. You can use this as an example.

Mith · 11-24-2008, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Morgan (feldon32) runs the Forum, and is the expert on how to get data uploaded.

As far as the actual MA3 program is concerned, PNG files will be necessary to be used as logos. The size is 256x256 pixels. Try not to too close to the edges.

I just uploaded Beta 7e. Besides the program itself, the ZIP file contains a logo file called SSLogo256d.png. You can use this as an example.

OK thanks Jim. I'll look for that file and see if I can learn how to do this. Gawd... I don't know how you do what you do... LOL...this stuff is hard!

Mith · 11-24-2008, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I just uploaded Beta 7e. It fixes a couple more bugs, and includes an experiment in swapping the logo files on the fly.

Besides the program itself, the ZIP file contains a logo file called SSLogo256d.png. If you put this file in the same folder as MA3, when the program is running you can use the L key to swap between this file and the default texture.
http://www.fish-byte.com/MA3Beta.zip

OK... I'm making progress. I figured that if I rename MY file with the name of the logo, i'm able to get it into the tank. I have to figure out the proper size (which is easy) and also make it more transparent. But I'll keep ya posted.

BTW... my seam issue is still there

Jim Sachs · 11-24-2008, 03:32 AM

When I get a logo interface into the program, you will be able to expand, contract, and shift the position of the logo.

Mith · 11-24-2008, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

When I get a logo interface into the program, you will be able to expand, contract, and shift the position of the logo.

Jim, I've been playing with the logos. I found that you can just rename a JPG to a PNG extention... then name it the exact name that you have already on your logo, put it into the MA3 folder (or where ever you have the SS... and when you press "L"... it appears. I posted a few test pictures in the other thread about converting logos...

I only used the pictures that I had handy... Obviously I won't be putting my face, or motorcycle in the tank... heh... but it's really quite easy for someone to do the above and put any picture they want into the tank.

Most of the time the pictures centered themselves.

loub516 · 11-24-2008, 07:57 AM

How are you getting your logos on the crystal? I tried naming mine the same as the serene logo file but I still get the serene logo.

11-19-2008, 09:36 PM	#43
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	The crystal is always transparent (you can see the background color change when you turn the lights up or down). I mentioned in another thread that there is no collision-avoidance around the crystal. When a fish is near the back of the crystal, it might be rendered either before or after the crystal. If it is rendered first, you can see it. If the crystal is rendered first, then the fish wouldn't be rendered at all, since the pixels would be higher in the z-buffer. When collision-avoidance is in, the fish will not be able to get that close to the back of the crystal, so it won't be a problem. The size of the crystal won't be changing. A 256x256 logo is projected perfectly on it now. Any bigger and the texture would be stretched and blurry. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-20-2008, 08:35 PM	#45
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Crystal Development I'm trying to figure out the best way to allow users to put logos on the crystal. You would be able to load PNG files, and use the keyboard to move the logo up-down / right-left and make it larger or smaller. The question is, how to save that data so that it is linked with that particular logo? The PNG files would just be floating around in the same directory as MA3, so they are susceptable to being moved or deleted. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-20-2008, 10:07 PM	#46
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	I'd like to see a Logos folder inside Marine Aquarium folder in Program Files. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-20-2008, 10:34 PM	#47
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Even if there were a Logos folder, I'm still not sure how the program would match up the coordinates with each logo. If the program knows that logo #6 is supposed to be 4 pixels to the left of center, and then someone removes that file from the folder, then the next one in line gets displayeyd wrong. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-20-2008, 11:44 PM	#48
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Can you load the PNG, modify it, and re-save it? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-19-2008, 08:53 PM	#41
jroseone Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 93	I posted this in the crystal distortion thread, but this is really a different issue. Some times the crystal is not see through. Fish swim behind it and you can't see them until they come out on the other side. Other times it's fine or it starts out where you can't see through it and then becomes see through when the fish swims through.

11-19-2008, 09:03 PM	#42
henemly asdf Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hiko, CommieFagnia Posts: 278	Nice job, Jim. The location is nice, however, the instant I saw it, it looked so tiny. I think it should be bigger. This is a 25% size increase. 25percent.jpg ps- well, maybe that's a bit to bigger. Perhaps a 10% increase.

11-20-2008, 01:56 PM	#44
henemly asdf Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hiko, CommieFagnia Posts: 278	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: The size of the crystal won't be changing. A 256x256 logo is projected perfectly on it now. Any bigger and the texture would be stretched and blurry. Sorry, your right. It just looked different than v2.6 I was used to looking at. Both these versions are at the same resolution. new2.jpg old2.jpg

11-21-2008, 12:04 AM	#49
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Maybe. Edit: I've done some research and experiments on the PNG standard, and it looks like I can add a few bytes after the iEND chunk without harming the file. This is probably the best way to store the information. My program would load the picture, look for the custom bytes at the end, use them if they are there, otherwise default to the normal position for the logo. I don't have Photoshop, but PaintShop Pro still loads the file normally with my extra bytes at the end. When PSP re-saves the file, the bytes are gone, so if you modify the picture, you'll need to recenter it. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium Last edited by Jim Sachs; 11-21-2008 at 01:49 PM.

11-21-2008, 06:38 AM	#50
StuDisney Registered Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: WDW/Orlando Fl. Posts: 44	Good to have the Crystal back. was Color possible in MA2.6, mine were all B&W "Our greatest natural resource is the minds of our children." “Growing Old is Mandatory - Growing Up Is Optional”

11-21-2008, 07:02 AM	#51
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	yes Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

11-21-2008, 08:56 AM	#52
Stew2000 Registered Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: UK Posts: 89	Can't wait to put my one in 3.0

11-22-2008, 07:36 AM	#53
dlorde Registered Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UK Posts: 7	Crystal more than transparent ? I just ran the 7b beta, with crystal showing, and although it looks great, fish swim right through it, from front to back and from back to front - is this due to the lack of collision avoidance? Also, when a fish is in front of the crystal, facing forward or back, its fins sometimes appear to become detached (or the fin 'roots' becomes transparent) - this is really noticeable with the lion fish, which becomes quite strangely ethereal, with it's outer fins clearly separated from its body. It's as if the crystal transparency in the background is making those parts of the fish transparent. Using WinXP, NVidia GeForce 6800(latest drivers) @1280x1024. Dave

11-22-2008, 07:41 AM	#54
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	There isn't any collision detection for the crystal. Right now Jim is just doing a test of the crystal itself. As far as the fish are concerned, it isn't there yet. That will be added later. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

11-24-2008, 03:08 AM	#55
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Morgan (feldon32) runs the Forum, and is the expert on how to get data uploaded. As far as the actual MA3 program is concerned, PNG files will be necessary to be used as logos. The size is 256x256 pixels. Try not to too close to the edges. I just uploaded Beta 7e. Besides the program itself, the ZIP file contains a logo file called SSLogo256d.png. You can use this as an example. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-24-2008, 03:14 AM	#56
Mith Registered Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 140	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Morgan (feldon32) runs the Forum, and is the expert on how to get data uploaded. As far as the actual MA3 program is concerned, PNG files will be necessary to be used as logos. The size is 256x256 pixels. Try not to too close to the edges. I just uploaded Beta 7e. Besides the program itself, the ZIP file contains a logo file called SSLogo256d.png. You can use this as an example. OK thanks Jim. I'll look for that file and see if I can learn how to do this. Gawd... I don't know how you do what you do... LOL...this stuff is hard!

11-24-2008, 03:25 AM	#57
Mith Registered Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 140	Crystal Development 2 Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I just uploaded Beta 7e. It fixes a couple more bugs, and includes an experiment in swapping the logo files on the fly. Besides the program itself, the ZIP file contains a logo file called SSLogo256d.png. If you put this file in the same folder as MA3, when the program is running you can use the L key to swap between this file and the default texture. http://www.fish-byte.com/MA3Beta.zip OK... I'm making progress. I figured that if I rename MY file with the name of the logo, i'm able to get it into the tank. I have to figure out the proper size (which is easy) and also make it more transparent. But I'll keep ya posted. BTW... my seam issue is still there

11-24-2008, 03:32 AM	#58
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	When I get a logo interface into the program, you will be able to expand, contract, and shift the position of the logo. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-24-2008, 05:30 AM	#59
Mith Registered Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 140	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: When I get a logo interface into the program, you will be able to expand, contract, and shift the position of the logo. Jim, I've been playing with the logos. I found that you can just rename a JPG to a PNG extention... then name it the exact name that you have already on your logo, put it into the MA3 folder (or where ever you have the SS... and when you press "L"... it appears. I posted a few test pictures in the other thread about converting logos... I only used the pictures that I had handy... Obviously I won't be putting my face, or motorcycle in the tank... heh... but it's really quite easy for someone to do the above and put any picture they want into the tank. Most of the time the pictures centered themselves.

11-24-2008, 07:57 AM	#60
loub516 Registered Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Savannah, Ga. Posts: 421	Crystal Glue How are you getting your logos on the crystal? I tried naming mine the same as the serene logo file but I still get the serene logo. LB