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Old 03-01-2004, 06:16 PM   #41
feldon34
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If you are unhappy with a 1800+ can I ask what you are running that seems slow?

I have a 1400 and except for hard drive access, I find it pretty speedy.
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Old 03-01-2004, 06:22 PM   #42
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Well I prefer to have smoothness.. and that means 60-85 FPS :P

The GeforceFX are good cards, but the 5200 is only a slightly faster MX class card unfortunately... but it does its job
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Old 03-01-2004, 08:41 PM   #43
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Cliff - Does your framerate change much with CalcNormals on and off? You probably mentioned this before, but my memory is short these days.
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:42 AM   #44
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I agree, Darkness. 5.2k "Ultra" is a weird combination. A super version of a budget card? What's that? – almost as good as a mid-range card?

/Tiny DX9 on those
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 03-02-2004, 05:12 AM   #45
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Jim, - My CalcNormals hit is only in the region of 10% - or less! - Acceptable for the benefits it gives, IMO!

For the record, I currently am getting 31+ fps with 1.1wide, but only 23+ with the latest MA2 - (both with 8 fish, Starfish, bubbles, sound, & CalcNormals 'On') - and with the video card set to give me the end product that I like best!

It is the fps difference between 1.1wide and MA2, that is the let down, - I have even tried having the same fish in both, - the difference remains the same, whatever the changes I make to SS or Display/Settings!

IMO, 30+ fps can give amazing results with a good video card/driver combination, - I have never understood the obsession with very high frame rates!


TT, - Re 'super budget Ultra' .....
Tiny, this latest change I made produced the biggest difference yet, - on my system! - (from, GeForce4 MX440 64mb, to G-Force FX 5200 Ultra 128mb, - both with 52.16 drivers), the improvement, for the small cost difference, was astonishing!

Last edited by cjmaddy; 03-02-2004 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 03-02-2004, 05:39 AM   #46
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First UK computer part site I found was:
http://www.ktscomputers.co.uk/

I have no idea if they're any good or not, but for £112.31 including VAT[?] you could get a 1.6Ghz Duron (1606) w/ heatsink (1147), 256MB of PC2100 RAM (934), and a nForce2 motherboard (1567) to plug them into. Since it's only a Duron you might be able to get away with your old PSU if you don't have too much running off it... That should give you a nicer boost than your recent video card upgrade. K6-IIs were nice in the days of the Voodoo2, but you've got to upgrade the bottleneck if you want any more speed (which of course you know, but I had to say something).

Also, I find it hard to understand how the FX could have made things so much better than the Geforce4... What exactly changed???
I don't watch commercials.
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Old 03-02-2004, 07:05 AM   #47
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Doc,
VAT – Value Added Tax.

Cliff,
I have no doubt the upgrade proved to be an astonishing improvement, though I agree with Doc that it shouldn't, but perhaps that's because of them being used in conjunction with such an relatively old CPU. I just believe you would've gotten a even greater increase with purchasing an ATi card in the same price-range. Then again it might not make such a big difference when running the aquarium as it's DX7 and all. Perhaps (lots of perhaps here, I know) there would be more difference in "heavier" 3D applications (which I don't think you're using much, correct?). Camberley's Koi pond might use some DX8 stuff for the water ripples.

Doc is running around in the jungle killing zombies right and left which puts *a lot* more strain on the system. For him a similarily priced ATi card would've been a wiser choice as nVidia is somewhat lagging behind in DX9 apps (though generally better at OpenGL) at the moment.

He has a point in that your comp is singing on it's last verse though. Going with 512MB of RAM that package he suggested would total £142.39 (I don't know either if KTS Computers is good or bad, it's just an example!).

Then again, building these things from scratch might mean the whole thing messes up. – If it ain't broken, don't fix it...

/Tiny Upgrade Bug
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 03-02-2004, 08:43 AM   #48
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Yeah, 512MB is the way to go, two sticks of 256 in that mobo lets you go dual channel. I don't remember what OS you're running, but I wouldn't bother with 512 if you've still got 9x anything. BTW, Durons overclock really well if you get one that isn't locked... Oh course I'm being overzealous since you haven't even mentioned upgrading...

BTW, the 128MB on your video card is like strapping a 3 foot spoiler on a Ford Tempo... There should be 64MB on that card tops...

<font size="1">*grumble* ...stupid greedy marketing bafoons... *grumble*</font>
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Old 03-02-2004, 09:45 AM   #49
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Thanks drfish, you are quite right to say what you have! - and I agree with you! ....... BUT!
I have covered this ground on a number of occasion in the past, the problem is that I have reached the limit with my present system, any further upgrade of CPU, will obviously mean a new and larger MB (my current one is a baby AT in a mini tower), so that also means new memory, etc etc. ....... in fact almost new everything!

I have amassed over recent years, an excellent monitor, ample memory for my uses (448), an excellent video card, a quiet CD-ROM reader/writer/re-writer, a virtually silent DVD-ROM/player, two large HDDs, + USB cards etc etc, - the box is stuffed to bursting! - So the only way forward is a fresh start. ....... now for the second BUT!

My present system is more than adequate for my photographic/web-site needs, (my main uses for a computer! - apart from this forum site of course! ) - I haven't played games seriously since Jet Set Willy, (I have nothing against those that do! - I just have other things to do with my life! ) .............. So that leaves us with the current/future version of MA2 not running as well as 1.1wide!

If that's the way it has to be, - so be it! .......... but thanks for your concern!
(Should I REALLY be buying a new, more powerful computer, so I can run a screensaver?)

Also, I find it hard to understand how the FX could have made things so much better than the Geforce4... What exactly changed???
How can I explain in words the subtle differences of being slightly, - better, clearer, sharper, crisper, slicker, brighter smoother, nicer. ........ The change was just so much more noticeable than all the previous (4?) changes! - and that surprised me!

Thanks Tiny,
You've hit the nail on the head there! - BTW, the change in the Koi pond is what impressed me the most at that time! - On the Koi Pond thread I reported:-
This new version 1.0rc11 is a VAST improvement on my system! - I don't know how much of this is due to my new video card, (from, GeForce4 MX440 64mb, to G-Force FX 5200 Ultra 128mb, - both with 52.16 drivers), but the improvement is astonishing! - Has anyone else noticed a big difference with this new version? - If not, then it must be due to the G-Force FX 5200 Ultra.
The general consensus was that it was the card!

ps, ..... OS = Dual booted Windows 2000 Pro/Windows 98SE
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Old 03-02-2004, 10:16 AM   #50
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Cliff,

I did not see what resolution you were running 1.1Wide and what resolution is MA2-MD. (WxHxColorBit)

I don't have access to the same 1.1Wide that you have so I can't do good comparison here.

The major difference between 1.1Wide and MA2-MD in the render area is the mipmapping. Try selecting the older fish then make the comparison. And also tell us if you have VSync on or off.

On my test here, I see MA2-MD running faster, but I have an AMD Athlon XP 2800+ with 448MB and GForce 4 MX integrated.
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Old 03-02-2004, 12:15 PM   #51
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Edgar,
I attempted to keep all settings/details consistent in the comparison, in order to be comparing like with like.
This is all being done on a 4x3 monitor, so the 1.1wide is set for 1280x720x16 with the monitor set to 'remember'!
MA2 has both wide and normal set to Default System Resolution (1024x768x16) and using Ctrl+W for change over.
I have already said that I have tried using the same older fish in both, - to no advantage.

The fps I have already quoted were all for the 'wide' versions.
MA2 (latest) 23/24 fps
1.1wide .... 31/32 fps

The comparison of MA2 normal (4x3 full screen), with 1.1 (none wide 4x3), both at 1024x768x16, are as follows:-

MA2 (latest) 26/27 fps.
v1.1 ....... 32/33 fps

AMD K6-II 500MHz / Windows 2000 Pro / GeForce FX 5200 Ultra (nVidia 52.16) / DirectX 9.0b / Sony flat screen CRT

The video card settings are consistent for all:-

Image setting = Quality
Antialiasing = Off
Anisotropic = 8x
Direct3D Mipmap = Best image quality
OpenGL Vertical sync = On by default

MA2 'S' key reports ... VSyncCLAMP
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Old 03-02-2004, 07:33 PM   #52
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pardon me ,
which is better setting?
calcNormal on or off?
actually what it do to the ss?
vsync clamp or off?
with vsync off i get 59fps , when on its only 49~50fps for MA2

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Old 03-02-2004, 08:58 PM   #53
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If you don't see the difference, leave CalcNormals off.

Vsync ON ensures smooth, but slower animation.
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Old 03-03-2004, 09:30 AM   #54
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Originally posted by sunny
... actually what it do to the ss?
sunny, - like the man said, "If you don't see the difference, leave CalcNormals off."

But for a better answer to your question, a good start would be to read Jim's posts (and others) on this thread.
A mountain of information has been written about this subject over the years, (much of it by me! ) - but one favorite of mine is when Mark finally 'Saw the light' - HERE -
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:41 PM   #55
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You wanna know something weird? If I have CalcNormals Off then I get a frame rate of about 49fps. If I have CalcNormals On then I get a frame rate of about 50fps! I know it's not much different, but it's in the wrong direction, too.
(Oh, that's on the GForce 440MX with 3 be-youtiful fish.)
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Old 03-03-2004, 07:23 PM   #56
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Originally posted by cjmaddy
'Saw the light'
yep, now i really see the difference...thanks

a few more question:
what does blankspace and blankaspace do?

what is MSecPerFrame?
the default value is 10..what if i change it to 100?

what is NoCompressedTextures and its function?

what is calZBufferON?

what is ScreenBitMode?

what is SoundFocus?

any difference between NoDuplicateRandom and NoDuplicateRandon?


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Old 03-03-2004, 08:58 PM   #57
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a few more question:
Why are you digging in the registry?
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Old 03-03-2004, 11:17 PM   #58
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hehehe...just curious to know although this is tweaking thread,right?
i notice that you have change your screenname...

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Old 03-04-2004, 03:21 AM   #59
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blankaspace? NoDuplicateRandon?
Typos.

what does blankspace do?
Press S key in the Aquarium. You see the statistics at the top? Press Ctrl-S and the same thing is displayed, but invisible. Why? This stabilizes animation on some nVidia cards. Otherwise certain people see choppy animation. This is saved into the registry.

what is MSecPerFrame?
the default value is 10..what if i change it to 100?

I believe this is CPU% control. Could be wrong.

what is NoCompressedTextures and its function?
You can turn OFF Compressed Textures in the Aquarium by pressing Ctrl-T. This is for 3Dfx cards and also nVidia cards with bad drivers which cannot handle normal DirectX compressed textures. There is no benefit to using this if your card CAN handle compressed textures.

what is calZBufferON?
Software Z-Buffering is something MA2 does to save video memory. This is to keep MA2 compatible with 8MB video cards. However this Software Z-Buffering causes some glitches in the fins and when the fish turn around.



Blue edges around side and back fins should not be there.

Fortunately, Software Z-Buffering is not used in the dual/wide MA2 coming out soon.

what is ScreenBitMode?
16-bit or 32-bit

what is SoundFocus?
Sound mode (see Settings panel)
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Old 03-04-2004, 03:58 AM   #60
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thanks a lot for the explaination / info , morgan...

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