Multimonitor Ruminations

[CheriePie]

Originally posted by Edgar:

Have you tried other 3D apps and see if the slow down happens?
If it does then driver and/or the card has the limitation.  

How am I sure what constitues a 3D App? If a video player doesn't count, then maybe Marine Aquarium is one of the few that I have. Actually, I have Goldfish Aquarium too. I could try it with that. Otherwise, DXDIAG shows no problems with 3D support in testing, and as I mentioned above, I did do a driver update very recently.

[Jim Sachs]

3D programs:

Dream Aquarium
Sim Aquarium
Aqua Garden
Aquareal
Anything from 3PlaneSoft

[CheriePie]

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Again - there is no provision for running in fullscreen mode while allowing a second monitor to display the desktop. This is not a problem to be tracked down, it's the way the DirectX screensaver framework works. The second monitor can either duplicate the first monitor, stretch the scene across both, or be blank. It's a security issue: Microsoft doesn't want your data to be showing on any screen when a screenblanker is running.

In anticipation that some people might like to view the Aquarium while working on something else, I added the Windowed Mode. The combination of even having a Windowed mode, being able to resize it to fill the second screen, and have it remember that size and position is probably unique to this program. If the card were more powerful, it would deliver more FPS. If that screen is set to 32-bit, you might gain some performance by setting it to 16-bit.  

BUT that is exactly what I was doing! Yes, in my first post, I did ask if it were possible to run it full screen in the second monitor like I can with Windows Media Player and VLAN Media Player, however I discovered after only an hour or two that it was application specific and you told me MA could not support that. I get it.

All further testing I was doing is with MA running in a window on the second display. And then I stretched said window not across both monitors but only wide and tall enough to fill up the second display!!

When MA runs on the primary monitor, I get 125 frames per second. Are you saying that's slow and it should be faster than that??? :-\ I also get 125 frames per second if I run MA in full screen across both monitors (what I called the default multi-monitor way above since that seems to be what MA defaults to when you first launch it with multiple monitors).

So what am I not getting here? I'll try to repeat and summarize everything I've already stated above:

I am running MA3 beta 9b. Running full screen on my primary monitor, or stretched across both monitors, I get 125 frames per second. My graphics card is an nVidia GeForce 8700M GT with 512 MB dedicated VRAM (seems powerful enough to me).

If I attempt to run an MA window in the secondary monitor only (while continuing to work in the first), the frame rate of MA on that second display slows to around 18 fps and even though I'm on a dual processor system, MA slows things waaaay down as it consumes about 50% of the CPU time. Again, this is when running in a window stretched to be close to full size on the secondary monitor only (with no overlap).

Let me know if I missed anything. As I really don't think I should be seeing that slowdown and frame drop (from 125 to 18) like that. Right?

[Edgar]

But the app has to be able to run in window mode for the test to be valid.

[CheriePie]

Originally posted by Edgar:

But the app has to be able to run in window mode for the test to be valid.  

Okay, now I'm confused then. How is what I explained above, assuming I explained it clearly enough, not using window mode?

And I just downloaded Dream Aquarium. I'll run it through the same tests sometime tomorrow and see if I get a similar slowdown when running that program in a window on the secondary monitor.

[Jim Sachs]

What Edgar is saying is that most of the programs I listed can't do Windowed mode.
Yes, you are running it in Windowed mode on a monitor other than the primary. On most systems, the program slows to a crawl when even a portion of the window touches the non-primary monitor.

So, if you want to view the Aquarium on one monitor while working on the other, these are your choices:

1. Live with the slow FPS.
2. Get a faster card.
3. If the monitor running the Aquarium is using 32-bit, try 16-bit.
4. Run the Aquarium window on the Primary monitor, and your other programs on the Secondary.
5. (Added) Users report that Windows 7 fixes this problem. See below.

[CheriePie]

Thanks for the clarification Jim.

I actually just discovered that Dream Aquarium couldn't do Windowed mode. I guess I was seeing that for myself while you were replying. LOL And though that's a nice program with the interface and all, and the tank sequencer, I still like Marine Aquarium better graphics wise. Though that little crab running around was cute! But I recall you saying you were working on something similar, be it a crab, oyster... I forget which but just remembered it was something I like to eat! :P

So, it's a bummer that it my multi-monitor setup won't support how I wanted to use it though. I've got that 32" widescreen TV just sitting there unused, while I often end up running Marine Aquarium in a window on the side of my screen while I'm working, just so I can watch it and let it relax me. (It definitely helps keep me from getting too stressed.) And I figured it'd be perfect if I could just run it over on that big a$$ TV screen while I'm working.

You know the other program Prolific Offers, Goldfish Aquarium? Do you do the development on that too? Cuz I do have that installed here as well as I'd purchased it several years back, after playing with my sister's on her Windows Media Center PC. Anyway, though it's not as graphic intensive as Marine Aquarium, because it does Windowed mode as well, I was able to confirm that it's frame rate slows from about 125 fps to 32 fps when viewed in a nearly full-size window on the secondary display. So not nearly as slow as the 18 frames in MA, but then again, it doesn't require nearly as much rendering. It's actually running over on there now, and any CPU slowdown is minimal. So this one is a lot more friendly to running in the environment I mentioned. It's possible even MA v2.6 would be usable.

But I'll save further tests for tomorrow as it's now 5am here. I'll try bumping down to 16 bit and such. Actually, you know what? This laptop could've came with an SLI video card setup, but I opted instead for the single card only, figuring I didn't need the dual video card setup required for extreme graphics apps. I'm thinking World of Warcraft players and the like, so I saved the $ and went single video card. Had I been using Marine Aquarium at the time though, and knew that a full SLI setup would've probably given me a prime setup for the environment I described, I might just have thrown the extra money towards it!

[cjmaddy]

Jim, - Dead right on all four counts! .... Been there, done that, got the tee shirt!

CheriePie, - Your results are the same as those I get, and have reported on in the past, many times! - Please read the numerous existing posts/threads that cover this subject.

Display your MA3 window on the primary, and work on the secondary, - that is the only solution.
DA does not currently run in a window!
You should also increase the default Sleep() setting until your FPS drops to around 40/50. - It will benefit your CPU usage, considerably!

[Jim Sachs]

CheriePie - I didn't do Goldfish, that was done by Eric Daniels, Edgar, and Will Ware.

Yes, I plan to add several invertebrates.

[cjmaddy]

Could I have just accidentally stumbled across the first positive feature to come from using Windows 7.... ?

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

.... Yes, you are running it in Windowed mode on a monitor other than the primary. On most systems, the program slows to a crawl when even a portion of the window touches the non-primary monitor.

So, if you want to view the Aquarium on one monitor while working on the other, these are your choices:

1. Live with the slow FPS.
2. Get a faster card.
3. If the monitor running the Aquarium is using 32-bit, try 16-bit.
4. Run the Aquarium window on the Primary monitor, and your other programs on the Secondary.  

On my new Windows 7 Pro 64-bit system....
AMD Athlon II X4 630
4096MB
nVidia GTX460 (Driver 6658)
Dx 11
Dual VP920 ViewSonic Monitors....

I find I can now run a MA3 window on either the Primary monitor, OR the Secondary.... or even across both!!! - Without the FPS slowing to a crawl.
(The Aquarium was set to: Limit Frame Rate=60)
I am making the assumption that this change is not due to any hardware upgrades, but is due to now using Windows 7.

Anyone care to comment ?

[Jim Sachs]

Hooray!

[Surferminn]

yay!!! Congrats!

[cjmaddy]

One swallow doesn't make a summer....


Edit: Does that mean you are going to further the Microsoft cause by adding....
5. Change your operating system to Windows 7. ?

[ESHIREY]

I am soooooooooooooo sorry for missing this. Yes Cliff you are right. I took notice to that when I switched to win 7 Ultimate. I just wish I would have put the 64b on my main system instead of the 32b. I got the 64b on my net book.

[Jim Sachs]

Cliff - regarding your question, done!

[Ralph]