Beta11f discussion - Page 3

Jim Sachs · 04-30-2010, 04:45 PM

Soon as I get this clock lightplay figured out.

JamesGreystone · 05-02-2010, 08:50 AM

I just upgraded my computer and decided to go with Windows 7 32 bit, which so far is better than I expected ( I loved XP but needed HTML5 support and IE9 won't run on XP), anyway I installed the Beta 11F and the Auto Pan feature does not seem to work anymore. I have it checked off, but the view remains constant no scrolling.

? Have I missed something regarding this?

Cheers

JamesGreystone · 05-02-2010, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by JamesGreystone:

I installed the Beta 11F and the Auto Pan feature does not seem to work anymore. I have it checked off, but the view remains constant no scrolling.

Cheers

I decided to play around with all the check marks, and it works if I check off the "render same image on all monitors" setting, I only have 1 monitor, but I am glad it works.

Don't remember having this checked in the Install version of MA3 on Xp though.

Ralph · 05-02-2010, 10:23 AM

The "p" key toggles the scrolling, was it on? With multiple monitors you can easily establish more width than MA3 is wide so the scrolling effectively stops.

Dale · 05-02-2010, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by JamesGreystone:

I decided to play around with all the check marks, and it works if I check off the "render same image on all monitors" setting, I only have 1 monitor, but I am glad it works.

Don't remember having this checked in the Install version of MA3 on Xp though.

Do you have a video card that has 2 or 3 video output connectors?

JamesGreystone · 05-02-2010, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

Do you have a video card that has 2 or 3 video output connectors?

It is an AMD HD 3870, it has 2 outputs for video so it is capable of driving 2 monitors.

Dale · 05-02-2010, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by JamesGreystone:

It is an AMD HD 3870, it has 2 outputs for video so it is capable of driving 2 monitors.

OK, so perhaps it thinks you actually do have 2 monitors, and that combined they are so wide that MA3 can't scroll.

Then when you "check off the "render same image on all monitors" setting", it works "properly".

There are many potential causes of a video card thinking the wrong things - settings, drivers, cables connected, etc. Make sure you have the latest drivers, and then look at settings. Perhaps someone else here has the same card and can advise.

cjmaddy · 05-02-2010, 05:36 PM

If you have outputs for 2 monitors, but only one monitor is connected, then set one monitor tab, (in MA3 Display Settings), to:- 'Display nothing on this monitor'. - You should then be able to scroll the whole of MA3 across just the one screen. - That will also explain why, 'Render same image on all monitors', had the same effect.

Deciding which tab, (Monitor 1, or, Monitor 2), requires the, 'Display nothing on this monitor', will depend on which output from the card your monitor is connected to. - If the first one you try gives a blank screen, then try the other. - But only one must be checked!

Dale · 05-02-2010, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

If you have outputs for 2 monitors, but only one monitor is connected, then set one monitor tab, (in MA3 Display Settings), to:- 'Display nothing on this monitor'. -

Wouldn't it be better to fix the underlying problem?

If only one monitor is connected, but the system thinks that 2 or 3 are connected, then something is fundamentally "not right".

[My video card has 2 monitor outputs, and is capable of driving 2 monitors at the same time, but only 1 monitor is connected. The system knows that, and MA3 doesn't have "monitor tabs" in display settings]

Clearly, telling MA3 to not display on the unconnected monitor should make MA3 work better, of course.

cjmaddy · 05-03-2010, 05:02 AM

James, - It's always possible that this could be another Windows 7 peculiarity, but, with reference to dual monitor video cards...

Because you have said that you have the option to, 'Render same image on all monitors', then I can only assume that your system must be set for more than one monitor. (Otherwise, that option would not be available to you). - However, even though you have 2 outputs, if you have no intention of connecting a second monitor, then you should go into Windows Display Properties/Settings, and set the video card for Single Display. - When you then go to the MA3 Display Settings, you will not see two monitor tabs, or the, 'Render same image on all monitors', option.... And everything should then work as a normal single monitor setup, with MA3 scrolling as intended.

If you decide to connect the second monitor, (but at times have only one in use), then you will need to change back the video card settings, and adopt what I said in my previous post.

If a video card has 2 monitor outputs, and is capable of driving 2 monitors at the same time, the system will only know that only one is connected, - if you first tell it so! - (in the video card settings in, Windows Display Properties/Settings).

Dale · 05-03-2010, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

If a video card has 2 monitor outputs, and is capable of driving 2 monitors at the same time, the system will only know that only one is connected, - if you first tell it so! - (in the video card settings in, Windows Display Properties/Settings).

Although it is apparently not the case here, some video cards are smart enough to tell how many monitors are connected, and (if only one) to which output.

JamesGreystone · 05-03-2010, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

James, - It's always possible that this could be another Windows 7 peculiarity, but, with reference to dual monitor video cards...

then you should go into Windows Display Properties/Settings, and set the video card for Single Display. - When you then go to the MA3 Display Settings, you will not see two monitor tabs, or the, 'Render same image on all monitors', option.... And everything should then work as a normal single monitor setup, with MA3 scrolling as intended.

I went into settings however there does not appear to be an option to output 1 monitor from the card.

As long as it works it is fine it just means having to check boxes in MA3 that would not normally have to be checked.

XP never had those boxes checked so it may very well be a Windows 7 oddity.

Maybe once Jim goes to 7 he will see how to proceed.

cjmaddy · 05-03-2010, 02:08 PM

Sorry about that. That's unfortunate. - So your only option with that particular ATI card and Windows 7, is to select, 'Render same image on all monitors', even though you only have one monitor connected... (And that option should not really be available!)...... Strange!

Jim, .... Another Weird and Wonderful Windows Work-around!

Nicki · 05-03-2010, 02:17 PM

Another case of Windows 7 being buggy as an upgrade on an existing computer.

JohnWho · 05-03-2010, 02:34 PM

I'm still not convinced that this isn't a video driver issue and not an Windows 7 issue.

Both MA3 and Win 7 must be getting the information regarding the number of monitors from "something". Is it not the video driver?

Dale · 05-03-2010, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by JohnWho:

I'm still not convinced that this isn't a video driver issue and not an Windows 7 issue.

Both MA3 and Win 7 must be getting the information regarding the number of monitors from "something". Is it not the video driver?

I'm not convinced it's a Windows 7 issue, and agree that it may be a video driver issue.

I have several Windows 7 computers of various versions. Most of them have video cards that are capable of two monitors, and have two output connectors. Most of the cards are ATI (AMD), although not as high-powered as the AMD HD 3870. One of the computers has an Nvidia (2-output) card.

NONE of those Windows 7 systems have any doubt about how many monitor cables are connected.

For JamesGreystone:

cjmaddy suggested going to "Windows Display Properties/Settings". Step-by-step, how did you get to there?

I presume you went to Control Panel, then Appearance and Personalization, then Display, and then clicked on "Change Display Settings" at the left. Or some other method. [The easiest method is to right-click on an empty spot on the desktop, and then select "screen resolution" from the popup.]

In any case, you should get the "Change the appearance of your display" panel. There are "Detect" and "Identify" buttons at the upper right - click on Identify. Tell us what happens. (You can try "Detect", too).

There's a pulldown box labeled Display. What does it say for displays 1 and 2.

If there is a "Multiple Displays" button, click on it and tell us what you see.

Do you happen to have cables connected to both outputs? It's often the case that the card actually detects connected cables, and assumes that a monitor is connected.

JamesGreystone · 05-03-2010, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

I'm not convinced it's a Windows 7 issue, and agree that it may be a video driver issue.

I have several Windows 7 computers of various versions. Most of them have video cards that are capable of two monitors, and have two output connectors. Most of the cards are ATI (AMD), although not as high-powered as the AMD HD 3870. One of the computers has an Nvidia (2-output) card.

NONE of those Windows 7 systems have any doubt about how many monitor cables are connected.

For JamesGreystone:

Do you happen to have cables connected to both outputs? It's often the case that the card actually detects connected cables, and assumes that a monitor is connected.

It shows that I have 2 monitors under display settings, so I checked and I do have 2 cables connected to this one monitor. One set was for Analog and 1 was for digital. I never disconected the analog once the sytem was up and running. Figured might as well leave it connected just in case

If I disconnect the Analog cable MA3 does not show the dialog box for multiple monitors.

Having said that however my XP machine had the same cables connected and the box never appeared in MA3, so windows 7 must have changed something or more likely it is a video driver for the card. I am using the winows 7 driver rather than installing the ati driver since it functions correctly, and the more native drivers I use the better in the long run. On the xp machine I had installed the original ati driver.

JohnWho · 05-03-2010, 05:47 PM

Still sounds like a fault with the driver. With both cables going to the same monitor, the driver should recognize that it is the same monitor, and not display both, or it should disable the "lesser", analog connection, I would think.

It is possible that there is a driver for the monitor that would resolve this issue, too.

Perhaps you should install the current ATI/Win 7 driver for that card. Even so, both cables to the same monitor might still be a situation not recognized by the driver.

You might contact the ATI folks for advice, but I suspect they will recommend not having both cables hooked up to the same monitor.

It is very likely that the older Win XP drivers simply were not able to detect the situation. Was the XP PC using the exact same video configuration?

At least you've resolved the issue. MA3 is not the problem, but it did show the symptom.

Good work on troubleshooting, Dale.

Dale · 05-03-2010, 06:06 PM

Thanks.

Originally posted by JohnWho:

Good work on troubleshooting, Dale

Still sounds like a fault with the driver. With both cables going to the same monitor, the driver should recognize that it is the same monitor, and not display both, or it should disable the "lesser", analog connection, I would think.
...
.

Yeah, it would be logical to think that - but the driver has no way to know that it's the same monitor. It might just be another monitor of the same model. (Model and capabilities are usually reported, but very seldom the serial number). And "both" monitors are turned on.

Modern cards and drivers recognize when a monitor is turned off, but that doesn't help at all in this case.

Monitors, of course, are set up to resolve this situation (if they have 2 or more inputs). There is always a manual setting in the monitor control panel to select which input to use. And sometimes an automatic "priority" to the highest quality input, which can be manually changed. That's a feature so that you can toggle back and forth between 2 completely different input sources.

That's (partly) why I suggested that the "Identify" button be used.

JamesGreystone, if you're curious, you could see what happens if you disconnect the spare cable from the monitor but leave it connected to the card. If you're lucky, everything will still be fine.

Dale · 05-03-2010, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by JamesGreystone:

It shows that I have 2 monitors under display settings, so I checked and I do have 2 cables connected to this one monitor. One set was for Analog and 1 was for digital. I never disconected the analog once the sytem was up and running. Figured might as well leave it connected just in case

If I disconnect the Analog cable MA3 does not show the dialog box for multiple monitors.

OK, underlying problem fixed. And, for those who jumped at conclusions, it's not a MA3 problem with Windows 7.

[There was this guy who jumped at the conclusion of a mule ... but I digress]

Originally posted by JamesGreystone:

Having said that however my XP machine had the same cables connected and the box never appeared in MA3,

Same hardware (computer, video card, etc.) - just upgraded from XP to W7? Same monitor? Same two cables connected on both ends?

04-30-2010, 04:45 PM	#41
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Soon as I get this clock lightplay figured out. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-03-2010, 02:17 PM	#54
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	Another case of Windows 7 being buggy as an upgrade on an existing computer. Run you clever boy. And remember...

05-02-2010, 08:50 AM	#42
JamesGreystone Registered Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada brrrrrr Posts: 29	I just upgraded my computer and decided to go with Windows 7 32 bit, which so far is better than I expected ( I loved XP but needed HTML5 support and IE9 won't run on XP), anyway I installed the Beta 11F and the Auto Pan feature does not seem to work anymore. I have it checked off, but the view remains constant no scrolling. ? Have I missed something regarding this? Cheers

05-02-2010, 09:21 AM	#43
JamesGreystone Registered Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada brrrrrr Posts: 29	Originally posted by JamesGreystone: I installed the Beta 11F and the Auto Pan feature does not seem to work anymore. I have it checked off, but the view remains constant no scrolling. Cheers I decided to play around with all the check marks, and it works if I check off the "render same image on all monitors" setting, I only have 1 monitor, but I am glad it works. Don't remember having this checked in the Install version of MA3 on Xp though.

05-02-2010, 10:23 AM	#44
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	The "p" key toggles the scrolling, was it on? With multiple monitors you can easily establish more width than MA3 is wide so the scrolling effectively stops.

05-02-2010, 11:13 AM	#45
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JamesGreystone: I decided to play around with all the check marks, and it works if I check off the "render same image on all monitors" setting, I only have 1 monitor, but I am glad it works. Don't remember having this checked in the Install version of MA3 on Xp though. Do you have a video card that has 2 or 3 video output connectors?

05-02-2010, 01:01 PM	#46
JamesGreystone Registered Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada brrrrrr Posts: 29	Originally posted by Dale: Do you have a video card that has 2 or 3 video output connectors? It is an AMD HD 3870, it has 2 outputs for video so it is capable of driving 2 monitors.

05-02-2010, 03:21 PM	#47
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JamesGreystone: It is an AMD HD 3870, it has 2 outputs for video so it is capable of driving 2 monitors. OK, so perhaps it thinks you actually do have 2 monitors, and that combined they are so wide that MA3 can't scroll. Then when you "check off the "render same image on all monitors" setting", it works "properly". There are many potential causes of a video card thinking the wrong things - settings, drivers, cables connected, etc. Make sure you have the latest drivers, and then look at settings. Perhaps someone else here has the same card and can advise.

05-02-2010, 05:36 PM	#48
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	If you have outputs for 2 monitors, but only one monitor is connected, then set one monitor tab, (in MA3 Display Settings), to:- 'Display nothing on this monitor'. - You should then be able to scroll the whole of MA3 across just the one screen. - That will also explain why, 'Render same image on all monitors', had the same effect. Deciding which tab, (Monitor 1, or, Monitor 2), requires the, 'Display nothing on this monitor', will depend on which output from the card your monitor is connected to. - If the first one you try gives a blank screen, then try the other. - But only one must be checked!

05-02-2010, 07:22 PM	#49
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by cjmaddy: If you have outputs for 2 monitors, but only one monitor is connected, then set one monitor tab, (in MA3 Display Settings), to:- 'Display nothing on this monitor'. - Wouldn't it be better to fix the underlying problem? If only one monitor is connected, but the system thinks that 2 or 3 are connected, then something is fundamentally "not right". [My video card has 2 monitor outputs, and is capable of driving 2 monitors at the same time, but only 1 monitor is connected. The system knows that, and MA3 doesn't have "monitor tabs" in display settings] Clearly, telling MA3 to not display on the unconnected monitor should make MA3 work better, of course.

05-03-2010, 05:02 AM	#50
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	James, - It's always possible that this could be another Windows 7 peculiarity, but, with reference to dual monitor video cards... Because you have said that you have the option to, 'Render same image on all monitors', then I can only assume that your system must be set for more than one monitor. (Otherwise, that option would not be available to you). - However, even though you have 2 outputs, if you have no intention of connecting a second monitor, then you should go into Windows Display Properties/Settings, and set the video card for Single Display. - When you then go to the MA3 Display Settings, you will not see two monitor tabs, or the, 'Render same image on all monitors', option.... And everything should then work as a normal single monitor setup, with MA3 scrolling as intended. If you decide to connect the second monitor, (but at times have only one in use), then you will need to change back the video card settings, and adopt what I said in my previous post. If a video card has 2 monitor outputs, and is capable of driving 2 monitors at the same time, the system will only know that only one is connected, - if you first tell it so! - (in the video card settings in, Windows Display Properties/Settings).

05-03-2010, 08:18 AM	#51
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by cjmaddy: If a video card has 2 monitor outputs, and is capable of driving 2 monitors at the same time, the system will only know that only one is connected, - if you first tell it so! - (in the video card settings in, Windows Display Properties/Settings). Although it is apparently not the case here, some video cards are smart enough to tell how many monitors are connected, and (if only one) to which output.

05-03-2010, 01:24 PM	#52
JamesGreystone Registered Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada brrrrrr Posts: 29	Originally posted by cjmaddy: James, - It's always possible that this could be another Windows 7 peculiarity, but, with reference to dual monitor video cards... then you should go into Windows Display Properties/Settings, and set the video card for Single Display. - When you then go to the MA3 Display Settings, you will not see two monitor tabs, or the, 'Render same image on all monitors', option.... And everything should then work as a normal single monitor setup, with MA3 scrolling as intended. I went into settings however there does not appear to be an option to output 1 monitor from the card. As long as it works it is fine it just means having to check boxes in MA3 that would not normally have to be checked. XP never had those boxes checked so it may very well be a Windows 7 oddity. Maybe once Jim goes to 7 he will see how to proceed.

05-03-2010, 02:08 PM	#53
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Sorry about that. That's unfortunate. - So your only option with that particular ATI card and Windows 7, is to select, 'Render same image on all monitors', even though you only have one monitor connected... (And that option should not really be available!)...... Strange! Jim, .... Another Weird and Wonderful Windows Work-around!

05-03-2010, 02:34 PM	#55
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	I'm still not convinced that this isn't a video driver issue and not an Windows 7 issue. Both MA3 and Win 7 must be getting the information regarding the number of monitors from "something". Is it not the video driver?

05-03-2010, 03:20 PM	#56
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JohnWho: I'm still not convinced that this isn't a video driver issue and not an Windows 7 issue. Both MA3 and Win 7 must be getting the information regarding the number of monitors from "something". Is it not the video driver? I'm not convinced it's a Windows 7 issue, and agree that it may be a video driver issue. I have several Windows 7 computers of various versions. Most of them have video cards that are capable of two monitors, and have two output connectors. Most of the cards are ATI (AMD), although not as high-powered as the AMD HD 3870. One of the computers has an Nvidia (2-output) card. NONE of those Windows 7 systems have any doubt about how many monitor cables are connected. For JamesGreystone: cjmaddy suggested going to "Windows Display Properties/Settings". Step-by-step, how did you get to there? I presume you went to Control Panel, then Appearance and Personalization, then Display, and then clicked on "Change Display Settings" at the left. Or some other method. [The easiest method is to right-click on an empty spot on the desktop, and then select "screen resolution" from the popup.] In any case, you should get the "Change the appearance of your display" panel. There are "Detect" and "Identify" buttons at the upper right - click on Identify. Tell us what happens. (You can try "Detect", too). There's a pulldown box labeled Display. What does it say for displays 1 and 2. If there is a "Multiple Displays" button, click on it and tell us what you see. Do you happen to have cables connected to both outputs? It's often the case that the card actually detects connected cables, and assumes that a monitor is connected.

05-03-2010, 05:26 PM	#57
JamesGreystone Registered Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada brrrrrr Posts: 29	Originally posted by Dale: I'm not convinced it's a Windows 7 issue, and agree that it may be a video driver issue. I have several Windows 7 computers of various versions. Most of them have video cards that are capable of two monitors, and have two output connectors. Most of the cards are ATI (AMD), although not as high-powered as the AMD HD 3870. One of the computers has an Nvidia (2-output) card. NONE of those Windows 7 systems have any doubt about how many monitor cables are connected. For JamesGreystone: Do you happen to have cables connected to both outputs? It's often the case that the card actually detects connected cables, and assumes that a monitor is connected. It shows that I have 2 monitors under display settings, so I checked and I do have 2 cables connected to this one monitor. One set was for Analog and 1 was for digital. I never disconected the analog once the sytem was up and running. Figured might as well leave it connected just in case If I disconnect the Analog cable MA3 does not show the dialog box for multiple monitors. Having said that however my XP machine had the same cables connected and the box never appeared in MA3, so windows 7 must have changed something or more likely it is a video driver for the card. I am using the winows 7 driver rather than installing the ati driver since it functions correctly, and the more native drivers I use the better in the long run. On the xp machine I had installed the original ati driver.

05-03-2010, 05:47 PM	#58
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Still sounds like a fault with the driver. With both cables going to the same monitor, the driver should recognize that it is the same monitor, and not display both, or it should disable the "lesser", analog connection, I would think. It is possible that there is a driver for the monitor that would resolve this issue, too. Perhaps you should install the current ATI/Win 7 driver for that card. Even so, both cables to the same monitor might still be a situation not recognized by the driver. You might contact the ATI folks for advice, but I suspect they will recommend not having both cables hooked up to the same monitor. It is very likely that the older Win XP drivers simply were not able to detect the situation. Was the XP PC using the exact same video configuration? At least you've resolved the issue. MA3 is not the problem, but it did show the symptom. Good work on troubleshooting, Dale.

05-03-2010, 06:06 PM	#59
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Thanks. Originally posted by JohnWho: Good work on troubleshooting, Dale Still sounds like a fault with the driver. With both cables going to the same monitor, the driver should recognize that it is the same monitor, and not display both, or it should disable the "lesser", analog connection, I would think. ... . Yeah, it would be logical to think that - but the driver has no way to know that it's the same monitor. It might just be another monitor of the same model. (Model and capabilities are usually reported, but very seldom the serial number). And "both" monitors are turned on. Modern cards and drivers recognize when a monitor is turned off, but that doesn't help at all in this case. Monitors, of course, are set up to resolve this situation (if they have 2 or more inputs). There is always a manual setting in the monitor control panel to select which input to use. And sometimes an automatic "priority" to the highest quality input, which can be manually changed. That's a feature so that you can toggle back and forth between 2 completely different input sources. That's (partly) why I suggested that the "Identify" button be used. JamesGreystone, if you're curious, you could see what happens if you disconnect the spare cable from the monitor but leave it connected to the card. If you're lucky, everything will still be fine.

05-03-2010, 06:13 PM	#60
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JamesGreystone: It shows that I have 2 monitors under display settings, so I checked and I do have 2 cables connected to this one monitor. One set was for Analog and 1 was for digital. I never disconected the analog once the sytem was up and running. Figured might as well leave it connected just in case If I disconnect the Analog cable MA3 does not show the dialog box for multiple monitors. OK, underlying problem fixed. And, for those who jumped at conclusions, it's not a MA3 problem with Windows 7. [There was this guy who jumped at the conclusion of a mule ... but I digress] Originally posted by JamesGreystone: Having said that however my XP machine had the same cables connected and the box never appeared in MA3, Same hardware (computer, video card, etc.) - just upgraded from XP to W7? Same monitor? Same two cables connected on both ends?