Marine Aquarium 2.6 is here. - Page 3

Tiny Turtle · 02-22-2006, 09:22 PM

Falz and Jim Sachs,
Actually if it was true that Jim had said so it would be a viable claim to make for Falz and a possible complaint to Prolific for changing the rules along the way.

Fortunately Jim hasn't to the best of my knowledge (which is pretty extensive on this forum) actually stated that "updates will always be free".

This of course has nothing to do with Falz' assessment that the features of the upgrade isn't worth the asked price for him/her.

/Tiny Oldie

Jim Sachs · 02-22-2006, 09:43 PM

When I was running things, I made the statement that there will be free updates, and updates that will not be free. My intention was to give away all the background program updates and charge for creature-packs. All that changed six years ago when I turned over the business end to Prolific.

Tiny Turtle · 02-22-2006, 10:23 PM

Isn't that suposed to be five years ago? IIRC, Prolific was mentioned around .99K which came out a month or so after I joined the forum (March 2001).

/Tiny 99

Jim Sachs · 02-22-2006, 11:20 PM

Right you are.

jroseone · 02-23-2006, 12:03 AM

I do not think it is fair that you charged me $5.95 for the Goldfish update and $9.95 for the Marine Aquarium update, when I paid full price and own all of your screen savers

Including Terrors of the deep. Why are you charging your loyal existing customers for these up grades when a new customer can purchase the current versions for the

Same price I paid for the original versions and now have to pay more extra money to get what a new guy can get for less because they do not own older versions and can

Get the new version with out buying the upgrade. I feel this is bad business and it definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Further more it is just not fair for you to take

Advantage of your fan base you should offer the upgrades for free and use them as a selling point to get new customers, not turn off your original ones. I think you’ll make

More money buy keeping your cliental happy and selling them new products not by raping them on the ones they already paid for once and offering it for less to new

People. Many people will end up not purchasing your new products because they know they will just have to keep paying for it over and over again to keep it current.

I for one will have a hard time spending more money with you or recommending any one to buy your products in the future.

Z3210 · 02-23-2006, 05:12 AM

After reading a post by Jim Sachs in regards to a 2.6 prob with MAC INSIGHT? LOL I love the Marine Aquarium and it is by far my favorite. I was hooked from the beginning and quickly purchased online. Somewhere along the line though I lost the key code and versions later it doesn't matter any longer because free upgrades got lost somewhere... Probally in the same place my keycode whispered off to.

Oh well. I gave up and continue to wait for that version we were all given a glimpse of within our imaginations. The one where the background corals etc would come to life. The one where the idea to fuel the ank and keep it truly alive and growing was thru creature packs... 3 or 4 fish and an extra bonus or two???

Now those would cost and understandably so. I think I gave my part to dream Jim had... Maybe? I suppose I imagined a team of top notch 3D artist all working together to create the ongoing creature packs. Maybe even doing them for a freshwater tank as well. Greed and money is a strange thing. I will not spend another 20 or 30 on the tank. And then another 10 and on and on. Some of us do live by a budget. Hell! I think at that point I will go out and get myself a real starter salt water aquarium. Don't get me wrong Jim. I understand you are an artist and I have been with you from years ago when you released saucer attack for the C64 and that was a long time ago. Thru the years you have continued to amaze us with your abilities with PC art.

So whats the deal with the next real significant upgrade to the aquarium? Something that would give me pause to consider spending more money on the tank. I mean it's gotta be this year because if it's not then I am ready to accept that as good as the aqurium is, maybe there is another that is better. One that took off where this one dared dream and beyond. Things change!!! Wether its the Aqarium or something else, I look forward to hearing of your future project releases. Snapshots of work in progress would keep many going. Fish... Tank... The tapping on the monitor always sounded so awesome. Hope Prolific figure it's out before an amazing product fades away. Later All!

Falz · 02-23-2006, 05:31 AM

It still looks great but it's also very, very dated now with the same old background. Two new fish isn't a very big reason to update.

I only ever bought the original. I got my money's worth. Business is business. But now I'm obviously not going to get the 3D background for free, if and when it ever eventuates. Which is a bit of a kick in the teeth, sort of if you are made to wait long enough for something you are promised, you won't mind paying for it it even though you were told it would be free. But I'll have to see it in action before I decide to bite.

feldon34 · 02-23-2006, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Falz:

Um, Jim said updates would always be free. Including the 3D background.

Now I have to pay what I originally paid over again for 2 new fish?

* Creature packs will cost extra.
* Fish packs created by artists other than Jim (unlikely to ever happen again) will cost extra.

Originally posted by Falz:

It's good that they are combining all the MA versions into one now, but to split them off in the first place was a bit of a greedy grab for money. Now to get the "combined" version, you have to pay AGAIN even if you bought all the previous versions! LOL... shrewed Jim, very shrewed.

It has nothing to do with Jim being shrewed [sic.] or shrewd. Jim doesn't get much if any of that upgrade money.

Marine Aquarium Time/Crystal/Logo/Clock was created by Prolific and they get all the extra proceeds for its sale. It has always been a separate product from the Aquarium which is Jim's baby. Think of all the features and control panel options that have been added since Jim's last version (.99K). It's huge. And much more compatible. And no more overheating CPUs.

My issue is trying to fold two separate products into one. If they want to make it 1 download for simplicity's sake, fine. But you should still be able to use different keycodes to get different features. One keycode for MA2, one keycode for MAT, one keycode for both.

feldon34 · 02-23-2006, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by jroseone:

I do not think it is fair that you charged me $5.95 for the Goldfish update and $9.95 for the Marine Aquarium update, when I paid full price and own all of your screen savers

Goldfish 2 was a substantial upgrade over Goldfish 1. I can see why it costs $6.

loub516 · 02-23-2006, 11:51 AM

Will we be able to put the two new fish into 2MD eventually or are they only for MAT?

feldon34 · 02-23-2006, 11:56 AM

That's the $64,000 question.

Jim Sachs · 02-23-2006, 05:10 PM

Good news should be coming soon from Prolific.

Schnaaps · 02-23-2006, 05:28 PM

Jim is correct...

So here is the latest. I have been intentionally silent until I spoke with JimS, Reichart and others. Sorry for the delay.

The upgrade price is going to be dropped from $9.95 to $5.95. The metric we used for pricing included the added crystal tech and didn't consider the people who would only want the new fish. So we are dropping the price on the website for the upgrade. For those who purchased the $9.95 upgrade we will see what we can do.

Separartely from that, here are the formulas we are going to use to issue FREE Updates, to keep inline with Jim Sach's wishes.

1. If you purchased the bundle deals of MA2 and MAT2
2. If you purchased MA 2.5
3. If you purchased MA 2 and MAT 2 separately.
4. Early purchasers of versions .99X
5. Any customer who has purchased 29.90 in serenescreen product regardless of version.

So, I think when all is said and done, most FORUM people and long time fans will be happy.

We are going to start our upgrade script this evening. Once all the new keycodes are generated you will be able to visit our site, and request you keycode via our tech support form.

Our email sending starts tomorrow...

Jim Sachs · 02-23-2006, 05:33 PM

Sounds pretty fair to me.

02-23-2006, 06:03 PM

Hmmm, $5.95... >>thinks--one vente soy mocha triple cappu-latte-cino that will last me a half hour, or a computer screen-art-visual feast that will last for years<< Difficult choice.

fred@ · 02-23-2006, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Schnaaps:

5. Any customer who has purchased 29.90 in serenescreen product regardless of version.

I paid like $30 for the cd version of just the Marine Aquarium 2.0 Do I get a free upgrade or will I have to pay?

Socrates · 02-23-2006, 08:54 PM

YAY. Way to go Jim, and thaks to Prolific for meeting that very old promise about the .99 adopters getting updates. you guys rule.

Tiny Turtle · 02-23-2006, 09:33 PM

..Sachs Rex...

jroseone · 02-23-2006, 10:18 PM

Look I paid for the MA2 product and now I paid an additional $9.95 for the latest upgrade you say you will soon be offering for $5.95. So what I want to know is will I recieve a credit for the $4.00 difference more importantly will I be eligable for free upgardes in the future ? I would hope so ! the e-mail address on file is themovingvanman@bellsouth.net please check and see and tell me if I will be eligable for this credit and the free upgrades. Thank You !

Falz · 02-24-2006, 12:04 AM

It is ridiculous that long time loyal customers should pay more than for original + upgrade than first time users. That guy has every right to be upset.

Upgrade payments, if ever used, should be either optional or priced very low, not like 1/2 or 3/4 the full price.

02-22-2006, 09:22 PM	#41
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Falz and Jim Sachs, Actually if it was true that Jim had said so it would be a viable claim to make for Falz and a possible complaint to Prolific for changing the rules along the way. Fortunately Jim hasn't to the best of my knowledge (which is pretty extensive on this forum) actually stated that "updates will always be free". This of course has nothing to do with Falz' assessment that the features of the upgrade isn't worth the asked price for him/her. /Tiny Oldie Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

02-22-2006, 09:43 PM	#42
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	When I was running things, I made the statement that there will be free updates, and updates that will not be free. My intention was to give away all the background program updates and charge for creature-packs. All that changed six years ago when I turned over the business end to Prolific. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-22-2006, 10:23 PM	#43
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Isn't that suposed to be five years ago? IIRC, Prolific was mentioned around .99K which came out a month or so after I joined the forum (March 2001). /Tiny 99 Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

02-22-2006, 11:20 PM	#44
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Right you are. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2006, 12:03 AM	#45
jroseone Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 93	This is a copy of the e-mail I sent I do not think it is fair that you charged me $5.95 for the Goldfish update and $9.95 for the Marine Aquarium update, when I paid full price and own all of your screen savers Including Terrors of the deep. Why are you charging your loyal existing customers for these up grades when a new customer can purchase the current versions for the Same price I paid for the original versions and now have to pay more extra money to get what a new guy can get for less because they do not own older versions and can Get the new version with out buying the upgrade. I feel this is bad business and it definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Further more it is just not fair for you to take Advantage of your fan base you should offer the upgrades for free and use them as a selling point to get new customers, not turn off your original ones. I think you’ll make More money buy keeping your cliental happy and selling them new products not by raping them on the ones they already paid for once and offering it for less to new People. Many people will end up not purchasing your new products because they know they will just have to keep paying for it over and over again to keep it current. I for one will have a hard time spending more money with you or recommending any one to buy your products in the future.

02-23-2006, 05:12 AM	#46
Z3210 Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ca Posts: 1	LOL After reading a post by Jim Sachs in regards to a 2.6 prob with MAC INSIGHT? LOL I love the Marine Aquarium and it is by far my favorite. I was hooked from the beginning and quickly purchased online. Somewhere along the line though I lost the key code and versions later it doesn't matter any longer because free upgrades got lost somewhere... Probally in the same place my keycode whispered off to. Oh well. I gave up and continue to wait for that version we were all given a glimpse of within our imaginations. The one where the background corals etc would come to life. The one where the idea to fuel the ank and keep it truly alive and growing was thru creature packs... 3 or 4 fish and an extra bonus or two??? Now those would cost and understandably so. I think I gave my part to dream Jim had... Maybe? I suppose I imagined a team of top notch 3D artist all working together to create the ongoing creature packs. Maybe even doing them for a freshwater tank as well. Greed and money is a strange thing. I will not spend another 20 or 30 on the tank. And then another 10 and on and on. Some of us do live by a budget. Hell! I think at that point I will go out and get myself a real starter salt water aquarium. Don't get me wrong Jim. I understand you are an artist and I have been with you from years ago when you released saucer attack for the C64 and that was a long time ago. Thru the years you have continued to amaze us with your abilities with PC art. So whats the deal with the next real significant upgrade to the aquarium? Something that would give me pause to consider spending more money on the tank. I mean it's gotta be this year because if it's not then I am ready to accept that as good as the aqurium is, maybe there is another that is better. One that took off where this one dared dream and beyond. Things change!!! Wether its the Aqarium or something else, I look forward to hearing of your future project releases. Snapshots of work in progress would keep many going. Fish... Tank... The tapping on the monitor always sounded so awesome. Hope Prolific figure it's out before an amazing product fades away. Later All!

02-23-2006, 05:31 AM	#47
Falz Registered Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 118	It still looks great but it's also very, very dated now with the same old background. Two new fish isn't a very big reason to update. I only ever bought the original. I got my money's worth. Business is business. But now I'm obviously not going to get the 3D background for free, if and when it ever eventuates. Which is a bit of a kick in the teeth, sort of if you are made to wait long enough for something you are promised, you won't mind paying for it it even though you were told it would be free. But I'll have to see it in action before I decide to bite.

02-23-2006, 08:13 AM	#48
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Falz: Um, Jim said updates would always be free. Including the 3D background. Now I have to pay what I originally paid over again for 2 new fish? * Creature packs will cost extra. * Fish packs created by artists other than Jim (unlikely to ever happen again) will cost extra. Originally posted by Falz: It's good that they are combining all the MA versions into one now, but to split them off in the first place was a bit of a greedy grab for money. Now to get the "combined" version, you have to pay AGAIN even if you bought all the previous versions! LOL... shrewed Jim, very shrewed. It has nothing to do with Jim being shrewed [sic.] or shrewd. Jim doesn't get much if any of that upgrade money. Marine Aquarium Time/Crystal/Logo/Clock was created by Prolific and they get all the extra proceeds for its sale. It has always been a separate product from the Aquarium which is Jim's baby. Think of all the features and control panel options that have been added since Jim's last version (.99K). It's huge. And much more compatible. And no more overheating CPUs. My issue is trying to fold two separate products into one. If they want to make it 1 download for simplicity's sake, fine. But you should still be able to use different keycodes to get different features. One keycode for MA2, one keycode for MAT, one keycode for both. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

02-23-2006, 08:16 AM	#49
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by jroseone: I do not think it is fair that you charged me $5.95 for the Goldfish update and $9.95 for the Marine Aquarium update, when I paid full price and own all of your screen savers Goldfish 2 was a substantial upgrade over Goldfish 1. I can see why it costs $6. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

02-23-2006, 11:51 AM	#50
loub516 Registered Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Savannah, Ga. Posts: 421	Will we be able to put the two new fish into 2MD eventually or are they only for MAT? LB

02-23-2006, 11:56 AM	#51
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	That's the $64,000 question. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

02-23-2006, 05:10 PM	#52
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Good news should be coming soon from Prolific. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2006, 05:28 PM	#53
Schnaaps prolificus penguinus Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Prolific Posts: 204	Jim is correct... So here is the latest. I have been intentionally silent until I spoke with JimS, Reichart and others. Sorry for the delay. The upgrade price is going to be dropped from $9.95 to $5.95. The metric we used for pricing included the added crystal tech and didn't consider the people who would only want the new fish. So we are dropping the price on the website for the upgrade. For those who purchased the $9.95 upgrade we will see what we can do. Separartely from that, here are the formulas we are going to use to issue FREE Updates, to keep inline with Jim Sach's wishes. 1. If you purchased the bundle deals of MA2 and MAT2 2. If you purchased MA 2.5 3. If you purchased MA 2 and MAT 2 separately. 4. Early purchasers of versions .99X 5. Any customer who has purchased 29.90 in serenescreen product regardless of version. So, I think when all is said and done, most FORUM people and long time fans will be happy. We are going to start our upgrade script this evening. Once all the new keycodes are generated you will be able to visit our site, and request you keycode via our tech support form. Our email sending starts tomorrow... "Jim, no not THAT Jim but another of the same name" JamesRathbun.com

02-23-2006, 05:33 PM	#54
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Sounds pretty fair to me. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-23-2006, 06:03 PM	#55
klyntun Guest Posts: n/a	Hmmm, $5.95... >>thinks--one vente soy mocha triple cappu-latte-cino that will last me a half hour, or a computer screen-art-visual feast that will last for years<< Difficult choice.

02-23-2006, 08:06 PM	#56
fred@ Registered Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 32	Originally posted by Schnaaps: 5. Any customer who has purchased 29.90 in serenescreen product regardless of version. I paid like $30 for the cd version of just the Marine Aquarium 2.0 Do I get a free upgrade or will I have to pay?

02-23-2006, 08:54 PM	#57
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	YAY. Way to go Jim, and thaks to Prolific for meeting that very old promise about the .99 adopters getting updates. you guys rule. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

02-23-2006, 09:33 PM	#58
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	..Sachs Rex... Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

02-23-2006, 10:18 PM	#59
jroseone Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 93	Now I really don't understand ? Look I paid for the MA2 product and now I paid an additional $9.95 for the latest upgrade you say you will soon be offering for $5.95. So what I want to know is will I recieve a credit for the $4.00 difference more importantly will I be eligable for free upgardes in the future ? I would hope so ! the e-mail address on file is themovingvanman@bellsouth.net please check and see and tell me if I will be eligable for this credit and the free upgrades. Thank You !

02-24-2006, 12:04 AM	#60
Falz Registered Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 118	It is ridiculous that long time loyal customers should pay more than for original + upgrade than first time users. That guy has every right to be upset. Upgrade payments, if ever used, should be either optional or priced very low, not like 1/2 or 3/4 the full price.