New Version 99H Released - BANDING BUG - Page 4

feldon34 · 03-21-2001, 03:23 AM

ajlaban,

No offense, but the previous Queen Angel was essentially a drawing of the same fish that replaces it in .99H, which is a juvenile. You can see pictures of juvenile and adult Queen Angels in the poll that took place here:

pub41.ezboard.com/fsachsa...=106.topic

Honestly, all adult angels look alike to me. I think a Parrotfish would suit this 'class' of appearance just as well as an adult angel. Just my opinion.

Jim Sachs · 03-21-2001, 03:24 AM

Actually, the previous Queen Angel was a much younger one. It was also the least realistic, and I had always planned to replace it.

Digital Lungfish · 03-21-2001, 03:27 AM

"Honestly, all adult angels look alike to me. I think a Parrotfish would suit this 'class' of appearance just as well as an adult angel. Just my opinion."

Hey! Finally my Wishlist Parrotfish gets honorable mention. Ahhh, now I'm happy.

- DL

03-21-2001, 05:21 AM

Love the new version with the Purple Tang, in Sweden it´s also called "Blue doctor". That I like though the Purple Tang is blue and yellow (also the colours of the swedish flag)!
Seeing forward to the nextcoming versions!

Jim Sachs · 03-21-2001, 12:14 PM

I've seen pictures (like your logo) where the Purple Tang is very blue, but the real ones I've seen are very dark purple with a touch of brown, so that's the way I went with mine. The color might vary with the age of the fish.

03-21-2001, 01:31 PM

I got a nice fps increase with the new version, from ~60 to ~70. Everything has always run perfectly on my V3 2000, no bugs, nothing. Excellent.

hooters · 03-21-2001, 03:20 PM

i just noticed Feldons Photoshop mockup pics there verry nice; Gr8 job- as mine right now look exactly like ur before pics- My vidio card is ATI ALL IN Wonder 16 MB AGP and same card machine #2 32MB AGP ....6269 drivers - is there a way to add what morgan did in way of texture enhancemment to these 2 fish in the next version ?

feldon34 · 03-21-2001, 03:33 PM

hooters,

Well, Jim says on his 10 computers, they ALL look even better than my mockup. So basically anyone who doesn't have a GeForce or GeForce 2 is experiencing this banding issue. Jim is going to try to fix it, but since it looks perfect on all his computers (he looked at my mockup and compared) he can't really test. Maybe the DirectX 8 version? If not, I guess that's motivation to get a GeForce, no texture degradation.

hooters · 03-21-2001, 04:03 PM

Thats a real shame my card seams to display everything else beautifully except these 2 fish- and i turned up the background lights to full from pure black and get that banding thing in the background now and didnt in the G version, My dad's friend owns a CP store so ill check it out on the cards u mentioned I could always trade in my 32MB card as its barely been in my possesion that long but i love its TV out and Multimedia centre - the Voodo 5 550 or whatever, is out... ive read review after poor review on them- ATI has some new drivers 7...some series coming out maybe this might fix the prob,
anyway thnx for the Reply and for what its worth i love ur Mocups , before I saw ur pics i didnt really understand what banding was and thought my fish looked the way they were supposed 2.
*Thnx Again

Shinsa · 03-21-2001, 11:23 PM

When I had my Voodoo 3 3500, I could not see any banding. Maybe a small anount of color artifact (but not banding) on the Purple Tang.

The background is a perfect transistion from sky blue to a sea green. I can not see any banding. The closest thing to banding I can detect on it is when I manually darken or lighten the background. During the time the shade changes, I can see a faint (very faint, only several pixels high)banding affect.

I now have my Voodoo5 5500 installed instead. My frame rate jumped from about 25 FPS to 128 FPS (1280 x 1024) and WOW! does it look good!! Oh, yeah, and still no banding!

feldon34 · 03-22-2001, 01:08 AM

Hey folks,

Well, Jim has just taken the time to send me some snapshots of how the Aquarium looks on his computers, especially the Powder Blue Tang and the Purple Tang. Take a look at side-by-side comparisons between his setup and my setup:

So, now we know we're not imagining things! The Aquarium looks DAMN GOOD, but not perfect on many of the lower-end cards. We've had reports of TnT Rivas, TnT Riva 2s, ATIs, Voodoo 3s, etc. with this banding, so I think this is a widespread problem.

Now you ask, if it were a widespread problem why is there so little 'noise' about it? I think the answer is

#1 the Aquarium looks better than anything that came before it and that most people don't even notice little things like this

#2 The Powder Blue Tang was the first fish to really exhibit anything like this but it was overlooked, and the Purple Tang has been the next noticeable fish, and the severity of the problem was such that it's being brought up now.

We've also seen rumblings about the background gradient having some banding. And Jim, I think you can chalk up any of the "I can't wait to see the Aquarium in 24-bit or 32-bit" comments (including mine) as people noticing the banding as well.

I know I can live with the Powder Blue Tang as is, but I think (hope?) Jim feels better knowing (Even with the ensuing headache of fixing it) that there are some people's experience that can be improved by some more hardware troubleshooting/debugging.

Who knows, the DirectX 8 update might fix this but we just haven't looked yet.

03-22-2001, 12:50 PM

Lately I've seen some nice "photograph's" on this site of the fish inside Jim's tank. I wonder how you create them? Is it a secret? Special program?

The Amazed Swede...

feldon34 · 03-22-2001, 02:10 PM

Ingo,

hold down the Shift key and hit PrintScreen.

03-22-2001, 10:13 PM

I believe I've managed to track down why some people get higher framerates in .99H and some get lower, while others get the same. It seems that .99H is more CPU intensive than .99G, but at the same time requires less 3D graphics power. Which explains why I'm getting a lower framerate at my normal resolution of 1280x960, my CPU. I'm running a K6-2 at 392MHz at the CPU is 100% when running either version of the screensaver. If I run the screensaver at 1900x1200 or higher, it then becomes limited by the graphics card and 99H will give me an ever so slightly higher framerate. Well, I'm done rambling now

C'ya

ajlaban · 03-24-2001, 03:07 AM

Hooters,

Last evening I purchased an ATI All-in-Wonder 128 PCI, 32mg to replace my old All-in-Wonder, 4 mg. Can't wait to see the improvement in the Aquarium. Jim should be getting royalties from graphics card manufacturers! I'm sure this program and his future projects have caused quite a few upgrade purchases. Since I am not a computer game player he can take full credit for my upgrade.

I see from a prior post you have the AGP version of this. How do you like it, banding aside?

Would have liked to get an AGP card or maybe the Geforce card so many here are talking about but I have a Pentium I and need to have TV capability on my PC so this card had the most muscle I could get. The rest will have to wait for my next system purchase.

Tomorrow (actually later today) I'll install it and the additional memory I purchased for the PC (more royalties for Jim?!) Can't wait!

hooters · 03-24-2001, 09:36 AM

well i loved the card and still kinda do - but i prob, will be changing it soon - not sure what to but I'm in the process of testing cards today that Feldon has recomended in the chats and in the forem- I didnt know they made an PCI when i got mine i just asked for the 16MB ALL IN WONDER and the agp is what i got then i just whent and got the 32MB for my main CP- as far as the card gose i love what it has to offer in way of Multimedia capabilities and the frame rate i get with the 16 MB card is quite fine with me at 1152X864 im just under 60 like 57-58FSP
at 1280x1024 im about 47FPS
and 1024x768 like 66-70FPS
so its fine there as well and the 32MB will give u more i just messed mine up last night messin with drivers hehe.
and thats with a tweaker from rageunderground
refresh rate at 85 for those resolutions
vsync off
u will like the card i think
i allways did till i noticed the banding blochiness stuff in the new Purple Tang - for this one fish's problems i realize my card dont cut it here and most likely in other apps like games in way of textures that is less easilly noticed
get urself the tweaker and also do u have the TV Listings in ur menue bar- this is a great option in a driver pack i just found? also when i read known issues with games they seldon mention bugs with the ATI. take care bro

Jim Sachs · 03-24-2001, 12:37 PM

Regarding TV-out -- The G-Force2 MX is available with S-Video-out. Mine has it and was only about $60 at a compter show.

FishyBusiness · 03-28-2001, 01:47 AM

Jim, Who makes your MX?

Jim Sachs · 03-28-2001, 03:15 AM

It's just a generic Taiwanese card. The only real name on the box is Graphic Force. The company logo is hard to decypher, could be +IS or HI8. No names in the 1-page manual. Card is rock-solid.

ajlaban · 03-28-2001, 07:51 AM

hooters,

<<and also do u have the TV Listings in ur menue bar- this is a great option in a driver pack i just found?>>

Where did you find this? I would be interested. Thanks.

I see no problem with the Purple Tang on the card. But then the Tang on my screen is just dark enough that I might not know it. Perhaps its a monitor problem. I have an old but good NEC Multisync 5FG 17." Its currently working with its second PC. I'll have to do the color adjustment for it that is in the ATI advanced settings tab. The Powder Blue Tang does have a bit of banding on the ATI AIW 128 but somewhat less than on the old All in Wonder. All in all I'm quite pleased so far.

03-21-2001, 03:23 AM	#61
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Re: New Sound ajlaban, No offense, but the previous Queen Angel was essentially a drawing of the same fish that replaces it in .99H, which is a juvenile. You can see pictures of juvenile and adult Queen Angels in the poll that took place here: pub41.ezboard.com/fsachsa...=106.topic Honestly, all adult angels look alike to me. I think a Parrotfish would suit this 'class' of appearance just as well as an adult angel. Just my opinion. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-21-2001, 03:24 AM	#62
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Re: New Sound Actually, the previous Queen Angel was a much younger one. It was also the least realistic, and I had always planned to replace it. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-21-2001, 03:27 AM	#63
Digital Lungfish Obey the toad! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,557	Re: New Sound "Honestly, all adult angels look alike to me. I think a Parrotfish would suit this 'class' of appearance just as well as an adult angel. Just my opinion." Hey! Finally my Wishlist Parrotfish gets honorable mention. Ahhh, now I'm happy. - DL Steve www.tron-sector.com - www.badcartridge.com - www.classicgaming.com - www.dinofish.com Today is the tomorrow you were worried about yesterday...

03-21-2001, 05:21 AM	#64
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: New Version 99H Released Love the new version with the Purple Tang, in Sweden it´s also called "Blue doctor". That I like though the Purple Tang is blue and yellow (also the colours of the swedish flag)! Seeing forward to the nextcoming versions!

03-21-2001, 12:14 PM	#65
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Re: New Version 99H Released I've seen pictures (like your logo) where the Purple Tang is very blue, but the real ones I've seen are very dark purple with a touch of brown, so that's the way I went with mine. The color might vary with the age of the fish. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-21-2001, 01:31 PM	#66
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: New Version 99H Released I got a nice fps increase with the new version, from ~60 to ~70. Everything has always run perfectly on my V3 2000, no bugs, nothing. Excellent.

03-21-2001, 03:20 PM	#67
hooters Percula Clown Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ummmmm Posts: 84	Re: New Version 99H Released i just noticed Feldons Photoshop mockup pics there verry nice; Gr8 job- as mine right now look exactly like ur before pics- My vidio card is ATI ALL IN Wonder 16 MB AGP and same card machine #2 32MB AGP ....6269 drivers - is there a way to add what morgan did in way of texture enhancemment to these 2 fish in the next version ? ~RELAXATION IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT~

03-21-2001, 03:33 PM	#68
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Re: New Version 99H Released hooters, Well, Jim says on his 10 computers, they ALL look even better than my mockup. So basically anyone who doesn't have a GeForce or GeForce 2 is experiencing this banding issue. Jim is going to try to fix it, but since it looks perfect on all his computers (he looked at my mockup and compared) he can't really test. Maybe the DirectX 8 version? If not, I guess that's motivation to get a GeForce, no texture degradation. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-21-2001, 04:03 PM	#69
hooters Percula Clown Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ummmmm Posts: 84	Re: New Version 99H Released (mockup) Thats a real shame my card seams to display everything else beautifully except these 2 fish- and i turned up the background lights to full from pure black and get that banding thing in the background now and didnt in the G version, My dad's friend owns a CP store so ill check it out on the cards u mentioned I could always trade in my 32MB card as its barely been in my possesion that long but i love its TV out and Multimedia centre - the Voodo 5 550 or whatever, is out... ive read review after poor review on them- ATI has some new drivers 7...some series coming out maybe this might fix the prob, anyway thnx for the Reply and for what its worth i love ur Mocups , before I saw ur pics i didnt really understand what banding was and thought my fish looked the way they were supposed 2. *Thnx Again ~RELAXATION IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT~

03-21-2001, 11:23 PM	#70
Shinsa Registered Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 407	banding issue, again.... When I had my Voodoo 3 3500, I could not see any banding. Maybe a small anount of color artifact (but not banding) on the Purple Tang. The background is a perfect transistion from sky blue to a sea green. I can not see any banding. The closest thing to banding I can detect on it is when I manually darken or lighten the background. During the time the shade changes, I can see a faint (very faint, only several pixels high)banding affect. I now have my Voodoo5 5500 installed instead. My frame rate jumped from about 25 FPS to 128 FPS (1280 x 1024) and WOW! does it look good!! Oh, yeah, and still no banding! Bob "When you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." _______________________________________________

03-22-2001, 01:08 AM	#71
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Re: Banding Issue Hey folks, Well, Jim has just taken the time to send me some snapshots of how the Aquarium looks on his computers, especially the Powder Blue Tang and the Purple Tang. Take a look at side-by-side comparisons between his setup and my setup: So, now we know we're not imagining things! The Aquarium looks DAMN GOOD, but not perfect on many of the lower-end cards. We've had reports of TnT Rivas, TnT Riva 2s, ATIs, Voodoo 3s, etc. with this banding, so I think this is a widespread problem. Now you ask, if it were a widespread problem why is there so little 'noise' about it? I think the answer is #1 the Aquarium looks better than anything that came before it and that most people don't even notice little things like this #2 The Powder Blue Tang was the first fish to really exhibit anything like this but it was overlooked, and the Purple Tang has been the next noticeable fish, and the severity of the problem was such that it's being brought up now. We've also seen rumblings about the background gradient having some banding. And Jim, I think you can chalk up any of the "I can't wait to see the Aquarium in 24-bit or 32-bit" comments (including mine) as people noticing the banding as well. I know I can live with the Powder Blue Tang as is, but I think (hope?) Jim feels better knowing (Even with the ensuing headache of fixing it) that there are some people's experience that can be improved by some more hardware troubleshooting/debugging. Who knows, the DirectX 8 update might fix this but we just haven't looked yet. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-22-2001, 12:50 PM	#72
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Banding Issue Lately I've seen some nice "photograph's" on this site of the fish inside Jim's tank. I wonder how you create them? Is it a secret? Special program? The Amazed Swede...

03-22-2001, 02:10 PM	#73
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Re: Banding Issue Ingo, hold down the Shift key and hit PrintScreen. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-22-2001, 10:13 PM	#74
Guest Posts: n/a	99h vs 99g and framerates I believe I've managed to track down why some people get higher framerates in .99H and some get lower, while others get the same. It seems that .99H is more CPU intensive than .99G, but at the same time requires less 3D graphics power. Which explains why I'm getting a lower framerate at my normal resolution of 1280x960, my CPU. I'm running a K6-2 at 392MHz at the CPU is 100% when running either version of the screensaver. If I run the screensaver at 1900x1200 or higher, it then becomes limited by the graphics card and 99H will give me an ever so slightly higher framerate. Well, I'm done rambling now C'ya

03-24-2001, 03:07 AM	#75
ajlaban Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Monroeville, PA. USA Posts: 77	Re: New Version 99H Released Hooters, Last evening I purchased an ATI All-in-Wonder 128 PCI, 32mg to replace my old All-in-Wonder, 4 mg. Can't wait to see the improvement in the Aquarium. Jim should be getting royalties from graphics card manufacturers! I'm sure this program and his future projects have caused quite a few upgrade purchases. Since I am not a computer game player he can take full credit for my upgrade. I see from a prior post you have the AGP version of this. How do you like it, banding aside? Would have liked to get an AGP card or maybe the Geforce card so many here are talking about but I have a Pentium I and need to have TV capability on my PC so this card had the most muscle I could get. The rest will have to wait for my next system purchase. Tomorrow (actually later today) I'll install it and the additional memory I purchased for the PC (more royalties for Jim?!) Can't wait! Passed away August 27, 2008.

03-24-2001, 09:36 AM	#76
hooters Percula Clown Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ummmmm Posts: 84	Re: Ajlaban NEW CARD well i loved the card and still kinda do - but i prob, will be changing it soon - not sure what to but I'm in the process of testing cards today that Feldon has recomended in the chats and in the forem- I didnt know they made an PCI when i got mine i just asked for the 16MB ALL IN WONDER and the agp is what i got then i just whent and got the 32MB for my main CP- as far as the card gose i love what it has to offer in way of Multimedia capabilities and the frame rate i get with the 16 MB card is quite fine with me at 1152X864 im just under 60 like 57-58FSP at 1280x1024 im about 47FPS and 1024x768 like 66-70FPS so its fine there as well and the 32MB will give u more i just messed mine up last night messin with drivers hehe. and thats with a tweaker from rageunderground refresh rate at 85 for those resolutions vsync off u will like the card i think i allways did till i noticed the banding blochiness stuff in the new Purple Tang - for this one fish's problems i realize my card dont cut it here and most likely in other apps like games in way of textures that is less easilly noticed get urself the tweaker and also do u have the TV Listings in ur menue bar- this is a great option in a driver pack i just found? also when i read known issues with games they seldon mention bugs with the ATI. take care bro ~RELAXATION IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT~

03-24-2001, 12:37 PM	#77
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Re: New Version 99H Released Regarding TV-out -- The G-Force2 MX is available with S-Video-out. Mine has it and was only about $60 at a compter show. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-28-2001, 01:47 AM	#78
FishyBusiness Registered Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 2,206	Re: New Version 99H Released Jim, Who makes your MX? Frank

03-28-2001, 03:15 AM	#79
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Re: New Version 99H Released It's just a generic Taiwanese card. The only real name on the box is Graphic Force. The company logo is hard to decypher, could be +IS or HI8. No names in the 1-page manual. Card is rock-solid. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-28-2001, 07:51 AM	#80
ajlaban Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Monroeville, PA. USA Posts: 77	Re: Ajlaban NEW CARD hooters, <<and also do u have the TV Listings in ur menue bar- this is a great option in a driver pack i just found?>> Where did you find this? I would be interested. Thanks. I see no problem with the Purple Tang on the card. But then the Tang on my screen is just dark enough that I might not know it. Perhaps its a monitor problem. I have an old but good NEC Multisync 5FG 17." Its currently working with its second PC. I'll have to do the color adjustment for it that is in the ATI advanced settings tab. The Powder Blue Tang does have a bit of banding on the ATI AIW 128 but somewhat less than on the old All in Wonder. All in all I'm quite pleased so far. Passed away August 27, 2008.