Flag Burning (Political Commentary) - Page 4

cjmaddy · 03-30-2004, 04:48 AM

You've jumped right in there with both feet Patrick! ..... IIMSS!

Why answer a question with a question? - Why not try an answer?

I repeat, (ie, please read!) ....... the proponents focus can become blinkered, objectivism goes out the window!

Listen to each other! .......... talk! ........... don't just go out there and kill!

ps, - If burning the bloody screensaver would stop all this crap, - I'd do it immediately!

Tiny Turtle · 03-30-2004, 04:51 AM

Jim,
I'm not being ironic, but I didn't get that. Could you rephrase it a little?

Pat,
I dunno, kill two other Norwegians and wait for 'em to retaliate in turn?

Look, I know there wasn't that many options left for GWB and his boys but to charge after Osama with everything they had. It's a Devil's alternative – You got to act, but if you do, people will get hurt. I just want everybody to lay off the "Everything we do is right and it serves those idiots right to live in caves because we got our skyscraper and 2000 people blown to bits". Never mind that Ali bin Afghan hadn't even heard of the U.S. of A. before his wife got killed.

Perhaps it was what had to be done, but at least have the common decency to feel sorry for those, just as innocent, victims as well as your own instead of pissing on their flag!

/Tiny Dragon's Teeth

Michael Babin · 03-30-2004, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by Tiny Turtle
Perhaps it was what had to be done, but at least have the common decency to feel sorry for those, just as innocent, victims as well as your own instead of pissing on their flag!

Your implicit assumption is that this picture is somehow contemporary, reflecting the current geopolitical realities, and indicates a continuing resentment toward Afghanistan in general. What if the picture had been taken right after 9/11, before any action had been taken against the Taliban government of Afghanistan? Would that make the sentiment (antagonism toward Afghanistan) more understandable, if still inappropriately expressed?

I am indeed sorry for all the victims of that (ongoing) struggle in Afghanistan. In this particular case, at least an attempt has been made to change the situation (hopefully for the better) in that country, as opposed to lobbing bombs/missiles at the country in "retaliation" (your "kill two Norwegians" approach). The latter approach was tried by "WJC and his boys" (Bill Clinton, for those following along at home), to use your turn of phrase, without much success.

drfish · 03-30-2004, 09:42 AM

Anyone else notice the link to the picture has been removed?

Does that mean we have to stop now?

Reichart · 03-30-2004, 09:58 AM

Ralph, without directly answering your question about who is more free, I do love that you equate paying taxes with a loss of freedom, but am truly bewildered by equating a “free market” with this loss.

In every single thing you listed, those “are” my examples of freedoms.

Taxes/Insurance: a system where we attempt to work as a team to free up local resources and incurred costs, and spread them across the entire family/clan/city/state/country. Just the idea of a country without taxes makes my skin crawl.

Addy: ps, - Would it be alright to burn the bloody screensaver?
A: In what cause would you burn it in? the problem is, the screen saver is designed to stop burn in! I suggest Burning it to a CD, and then burning the CD.

Tiny Turtle · 03-30-2004, 10:20 AM

Michael (B),
"My Kill two Norwegians approach" was written with irony. The thought was that Pat would see that then they would kill three Swedes and we would kill four of them until we had an outright war which I can't imagine was to his liking.

Let's assume the picture was taken right after 9-11 (which I think/hope too). – My assumption – implicit or not – was that the posting of the picture represented something of an opinion that this was an acceptable action to take. Hopefully it wasn't and further pictures with similar content should IMO be added to the list of things not wanted to be seen by "moms and ten-year-olds" on this forum.

/Until Tomorrow – Gotta go

Jim Sachs · 03-30-2004, 11:03 AM

Tiny - Feeling sorry for people is America's stock-in-trade. We are the Kings of Sorry. Never in the history of the world has a nation felt SO sorry for practically everyone. We spend unimaginable amounts of money developing weapons which cause the least amount of innocent casualties, when we could easily press one button and vaporize the whole problem. We endlessly debate the morality of every action, until the very concept of right and wrong loses all meaning. We go bankrupt feeding, housing, clothing, healing (and even arming) those who would destroy us. Then we mortgage our children's future, and do it some more. Sorry has achieved nothing. Sorry has made us the most hated nation on Earth, and we're sick of it. If Russia or Germany or Sweden want the job of World Cop, they are welcome to it. We'll leave the keys to the Police Cruiser at the doughnut shop.

Reichart · 03-30-2004, 11:07 AM

LOL....and sooooooooooooooooo true.

Marian Nichols · 03-30-2004, 11:16 AM

Truer words were never spoken.
Cheers and a standing ovation, I nominate Jim Sachs for president.

drfish · 03-30-2004, 11:22 AM

Well said Jim.

Edit: You edited your post while I was typing mine, Marian... After saying what he just said, do you think he'd want the job???

Jim Sachs · 03-30-2004, 11:47 AM

I respectfully decline the nomination

drfish · 03-30-2004, 11:59 AM

...that is why it must be you.
/Gladiator

Jim Sachs · 03-30-2004, 12:45 PM

You do realize that being President would greatly slow down my work on the Aquarium.

Jav400 · 03-30-2004, 01:15 PM

Delegate Jim, Delegate.

Jim Sachs · 03-30-2004, 01:16 PM

OK, I'll delegate - You be President and I'll work on the Aquarium.

drfish · 03-30-2004, 01:22 PM

But you'd have minions Jim, minions... Think about it... You could work on the aquarium and they could do all that other stuff...

Jim Sachs · 03-30-2004, 01:30 PM

Ah, minions. I've always wanted minions. I hear they're great with truffle sauce.

cjmaddy · 03-30-2004, 02:26 PM

This could be drawing to a close, (lets hope!), so I promise this is MY last comment on the subject.

A few quotes from this - "debate".

In the grand scale of things, flags separate people, far more than they bring them together.

Very true!

But don't burn the symbol of the country that so many have died for.

Emotions, getting way out of control.

Sorry has achieved nothing. Sorry has made us the most hated nation on Earth.

Definitely NOT true, - but understandable to a point.

It is difficult to see yourself as others see you, but believe me, if more people came across as Jim's comment does, (with a few amendments), America (USA), would not be the hated nation it is fast becoming.

Some of the great problems of this world, Politics, Religion, Patriotism, and most importantly, - greed, will never be overcome until people listen to each other, and see each other's point of view. ..... We have to do it. - We have to talk and listen!

We in the UK have a problem that has been going on for a lot longer, - Northern Ireland!!!

The bottom line is, - the two sides have to decide, if they want to return to self-government, - more than they want to hate each other!

At the end of the day, both sides have to compromise, it has to happen, - and will ......... EVENTUALLY.

I will now be

03-30-2004, 02:51 PM

Wow, I ignore a thread just because I don't have the screensaver and I miss out on all this lovely political debate!

Jim, only someone who absolutely doesn't want the job should be President. If you got the job, could you please send ALL the Senators and such to Mars?
As for the help we've been in changing Islamic society while bombing the crap out of Afganistan and Iraq, remember that until we were unable to capture Osama or Saddam or find WMDs, those were the ostensible reasons we were there. Then suddenly the reason became "liberating the Iraqi people." Just like it is now being touted that we went not because there were actual WMDs but because there was a "weapons program." I still maintain that the real reason is oil, though I'm sure many will disagree. It seems that Bush had his eye on Middle Eastern oil for a long time, and 9/11 became a handy excuse to invade that part of the world. Yeah, something had to be done. My thought is, why not actually show some restraint and catch the terrorist groups and their leaders and try them in world court instead of going the old "eye for an eye" route and killing thousands of innocents in the process? I also find it rather convenient that Saddam Hussein was "captured" at the beginning of an election year. Call me a cynic.
Oh, by the way, what ever happened to Manuel Noreiga?

Marian Nichols · 03-30-2004, 02:57 PM

This is a religious point of view. Please do not read if it will offend you. I would block it out if I knew how.

There is only one solution to Earth problems. Man can not solve the problems of this world, only a one government rule of the entire Earth will do it; a government with Jesus Christ sitting on the throne, abiding by the Ten Commandants and the strict enforcement of same.

I know this view will get me ridicule, care not I, it is the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.

03-30-2004, 04:51 AM	#62
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Jim, I'm not being ironic, but I didn't get that. Could you rephrase it a little? Pat, I dunno, kill two other Norwegians and wait for 'em to retaliate in turn? Look, I know there wasn't that many options left for GWB and his boys but to charge after Osama with everything they had. It's a Devil's alternative – You got to act, but if you do, people will get hurt. I just want everybody to lay off the "Everything we do is right and it serves those idiots right to live in caves because we got our skyscraper and 2000 people blown to bits". Never mind that Ali bin Afghan hadn't even heard of the U.S. of A. before his wife got killed. Perhaps it was what had to be done, but at least have the common decency to feel sorry for those, just as innocent, victims as well as your own instead of pissing on their flag! /Tiny Dragon's Teeth Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

03-30-2004, 09:42 AM	#64
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Anyone else notice the link to the picture has been removed? Does that mean we have to stop now? I don't watch commercials.

03-30-2004, 09:58 AM	#65
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	Ralph, without directly answering your question about who is more free, I do love that you equate paying taxes with a loss of freedom, but am truly bewildered by equating a “free market” with this loss. In every single thing you listed, those “are” my examples of freedoms. Taxes/Insurance: a system where we attempt to work as a team to free up local resources and incurred costs, and spread them across the entire family/clan/city/state/country. Just the idea of a country without taxes makes my skin crawl. Addy: ps, - Would it be alright to burn the bloody screensaver? A: In what cause would you burn it in? the problem is, the screen saver is designed to stop burn in! I suggest Burning it to a CD, and then burning the CD. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-30-2004, 11:03 AM	#67
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,789	Tiny - Feeling sorry for people is America's stock-in-trade. We are the Kings of Sorry. Never in the history of the world has a nation felt SO sorry for practically everyone. We spend unimaginable amounts of money developing weapons which cause the least amount of innocent casualties, when we could easily press one button and vaporize the whole problem. We endlessly debate the morality of every action, until the very concept of right and wrong loses all meaning. We go bankrupt feeding, housing, clothing, healing (and even arming) those who would destroy us. Then we mortgage our children's future, and do it some more. Sorry has achieved nothing. Sorry has made us the most hated nation on Earth, and we're sick of it. If Russia or Germany or Sweden want the job of World Cop, they are welcome to it. We'll leave the keys to the Police Cruiser at the doughnut shop. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-30-2004, 11:07 AM	#68
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	LOL....and sooooooooooooooooo true. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-30-2004, 04:48 AM	#61
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	You've jumped right in there with both feet Patrick! ..... IIMSS! Why answer a question with a question? - Why not try an answer? I repeat, (ie, please read!) ....... the proponents focus can become blinkered, objectivism goes out the window! Listen to each other! .......... talk! ........... don't just go out there and kill! ps, - If burning the bloody screensaver would stop all this crap, - I'd do it immediately!

03-30-2004, 09:35 AM	#63
Michael Babin Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rowlett, Texas Posts: 199	Originally posted by Tiny Turtle Perhaps it was what had to be done, but at least have the common decency to feel sorry for those, just as innocent, victims as well as your own instead of pissing on their flag! Your implicit assumption is that this picture is somehow contemporary, reflecting the current geopolitical realities, and indicates a continuing resentment toward Afghanistan in general. What if the picture had been taken right after 9/11, before any action had been taken against the Taliban government of Afghanistan? Would that make the sentiment (antagonism toward Afghanistan) more understandable, if still inappropriately expressed? I am indeed sorry for all the victims of that (ongoing) struggle in Afghanistan. In this particular case, at least an attempt has been made to change the situation (hopefully for the better) in that country, as opposed to lobbing bombs/missiles at the country in "retaliation" (your "kill two Norwegians" approach). The latter approach was tried by "WJC and his boys" (Bill Clinton, for those following along at home), to use your turn of phrase, without much success.

03-30-2004, 10:20 AM	#66
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Michael (B), "My Kill two Norwegians approach" was written with irony. The thought was that Pat would see that then they would kill three Swedes and we would kill four of them until we had an outright war which I can't imagine was to his liking. Let's assume the picture was taken right after 9-11 (which I think/hope too). – My assumption – implicit or not – was that the posting of the picture represented something of an opinion that this was an acceptable action to take. Hopefully it wasn't and further pictures with similar content should IMO be added to the list of things not wanted to be seen by "moms and ten-year-olds" on this forum. /Until Tomorrow – Gotta go

03-30-2004, 11:16 AM	#69
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Truer words were never spoken. Cheers and a standing ovation, I nominate Jim Sachs for president.

03-30-2004, 11:22 AM	#70
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Well said Jim. Edit: You edited your post while I was typing mine, Marian... After saying what he just said, do you think he'd want the job??? I don't watch commercials.

03-30-2004, 11:47 AM	#71
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,789	I respectfully decline the nomination Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-30-2004, 11:59 AM	#72
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	...that is why it must be you. /Gladiator I don't watch commercials.

03-30-2004, 12:45 PM	#73
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,789	You do realize that being President would greatly slow down my work on the Aquarium. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-30-2004, 01:15 PM	#74
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Delegate Jim, Delegate. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

03-30-2004, 01:16 PM	#75
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,789	OK, I'll delegate - You be President and I'll work on the Aquarium. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-30-2004, 01:22 PM	#76
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	But you'd have minions Jim, minions... Think about it... You could work on the aquarium and they could do all that other stuff... I don't watch commercials.

03-30-2004, 01:30 PM	#77
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,789	Ah, minions. I've always wanted minions. I hear they're great with truffle sauce. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-30-2004, 02:26 PM	#78
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	This could be drawing to a close, (lets hope!), so I promise this is MY last comment on the subject. A few quotes from this - "debate". In the grand scale of things, flags separate people, far more than they bring them together. Very true! But don't burn the symbol of the country that so many have died for. Emotions, getting way out of control. Sorry has achieved nothing. Sorry has made us the most hated nation on Earth. Definitely NOT true, - but understandable to a point. It is difficult to see yourself as others see you, but believe me, if more people came across as Jim's comment does, (with a few amendments), America (USA), would not be the hated nation it is fast becoming. Some of the great problems of this world, Politics, Religion, Patriotism, and most importantly, - greed, will never be overcome until people listen to each other, and see each other's point of view. ..... We have to do it. - We have to talk and listen! We in the UK have a problem that has been going on for a lot longer, - Northern Ireland!!! The bottom line is, - the two sides have to decide, if they want to return to self-government, - more than they want to hate each other! At the end of the day, both sides have to compromise, it has to happen, - and will ......... EVENTUALLY. I will now be

03-30-2004, 02:51 PM	#79
klyntun Guest Posts: n/a	Wow, I ignore a thread just because I don't have the screensaver and I miss out on all this lovely political debate! Jim, only someone who absolutely doesn't want the job should be President. If you got the job, could you please send ALL the Senators and such to Mars? As for the help we've been in changing Islamic society while bombing the crap out of Afganistan and Iraq, remember that until we were unable to capture Osama or Saddam or find WMDs, those were the ostensible reasons we were there. Then suddenly the reason became "liberating the Iraqi people." Just like it is now being touted that we went not because there were actual WMDs but because there was a "weapons program." I still maintain that the real reason is oil, though I'm sure many will disagree. It seems that Bush had his eye on Middle Eastern oil for a long time, and 9/11 became a handy excuse to invade that part of the world. Yeah, something had to be done. My thought is, why not actually show some restraint and catch the terrorist groups and their leaders and try them in world court instead of going the old "eye for an eye" route and killing thousands of innocents in the process? I also find it rather convenient that Saddam Hussein was "captured" at the beginning of an election year. Call me a cynic. Oh, by the way, what ever happened to Manuel Noreiga?

03-30-2004, 02:57 PM	#80
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	This is a religious point of view. Please do not read if it will offend you. I would block it out if I knew how. There is only one solution to Earth problems. Man can not solve the problems of this world, only a one government rule of the entire Earth will do it; a government with Jesus Christ sitting on the throne, abiding by the Ten Commandants and the strict enforcement of same. I know this view will get me ridicule, care not I, it is the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.