*** MA3 Beta 11e Comments, Problems, Discussion ***

[cjmaddy]

Originally posted by Nicki:

Edit: Yes, that is what caused it. Everything was fine until I right clicked and chose install. Then the playlist disappeared when I went to screensaver properties.  

The playlist bug with the contents disappearing, was when Right-click/Configure was used outside of MA3 to access the MA3 Settings, - as opposed to accessing the settings from 'within' MA3..... That bug was fixed with 11d.

Conversely, as I see it, - Right-click/Install will "Install" a new version of MA3 in the Display Properties/Screensaver list, (replacing any existing MA3), and because it is a new installation, not surprisingly it only has the default music, ie, the playlist will be empty.
But if you then re-add to the playlist, the re-introduced contents will not be lost when re-entering the MA3 Settings either from within or via Right-click/Configure. - But they will be lost if you Right-click/Install, because you are replacing an existing version with a new installation.

That's how it works for me on my Win2kPro system.... and I'm quite satisfied with it. - That's how I think it should work.

[Ralph]

Testing the "install" feature I think is a bit premature.. as it is with the beta 11e it will only install "IF" there is no pre existing copy in the system32 folder. This is how Jim circumvented the replacing of the play list... (I think).
I installed the 11e copy but noticed that when I went to settings (Windows) I had the old style dialog box.. and the play list was empty... but running directly 11e it still played just fine. Then, leaving MA3 as the default SS it came on but.. with 11d.
I then removed the copy in System32 and installed again 11e... NOW it starts as the default SS with only the default play list.
See attached image.. showing the dialog box of 11d .. and that of 11e... and now no play list as well.

Edit.. and because there is no "official install" it does not show in the "add remove" settings section

[JohnWho]

If it hasn't been done somewhere in this Forum, then I would suggest that the instructions for "installing" the "SCR" only update be added to the appropriate thread h e r e.

This would certainly help avoid problems during this beta testing with incorrect installation of the test file.

[Jim Sachs]

I'll take another run at clearing this up.

The Windows "Install" feature which comes up when you right-click any .scr file does 3 things (on XP, anyway):

1. It copies the filename and path to the list of screensavers.
2. It makes it the current screensaver choice.
3. It brings up the Display Properties box.
4. I runs the screensaver in -p mode (tiny preview window).

I think the confusion is caused by what this feature does NOT do:
1. It does NOT permanently add the filename and path to any saved list of screensavers, even if one existed.
2. It does NOT copy the file anywhere. It simply runs it from wherever it happens to be.

So, what does this mean when testing MA3?
1. If you right-click-Install the file, that copy will become your current screensaver.
2. If you bring up the Display Properties again, Windows will build a list of available screensavers from those residing in your sys32 drawer. If you see MA3 on the list, it will be an earlier version that you put in that directory, UNLESS you copied the new version into sys32.
3. When in doubt as to which version is running, just hit "s". The version number will be displayed.

Ralph - the fix to the playlist had to do with the fact that some ways of bringing up the program bypassed a lot of initialization. The DirectMusic interface and DLLs have to be running in order to access the Playlist, so now I fire up the whole engine even if just using Settings.

[Dale]

Originally posted by Nicki:

Okay I've done some checking and going by the right click install method, Marine Aquarium 3 is not entered into the system 32 folder, whereas you replaced the 10d version in system 32 with 11e before you ran the program for the first time. So you only had 11e on your systems whereas I had 10d in System 32 and 11e on the desktop. Jim has stated that they should both coexist peacefully together, but the way I did things caused a conflict. I will try reinstalling 10d and not right clicking on 11e and choosing install. See if that is what caused it.

Edit: Yes, that is what caused it. Everything was fine until I right clicked and chose install. Then the playlist disappeared when I went to screensaver properties.  

Oh - it's the old "step by step explanation" thing.

Yes, as you said, the "right-click install" procedure does not move (or copy) the file to anywhere. As far as I can tell, for screensavers, it just puts an entry in some table of "known screensavers".

In fact, if you just delete the associated .scr file, the entry will still be in the table. But if you try to select it for use, you'll get a "can't find this file - would you like to remove it from the list" message (or something like that).

[JohnWho]

@ Jim -

That is why I'm suggesting that with these "SCR" beta test downloads, it be explained that they should be "copied over" one's current MarineAquarium.scr file, if that is indeed the preferred method.

That would help avoid some of the problems that have been discussed here that would not be problems (hopefully) if folks had done the "copy over" or "replace" method.

[Jim Sachs]

OK, I've put a little explanation of how to download and test the program on the main download announcement page.

The safest policy regarding right-click-install is Just Say No.

[Dale]

Originally posted by Ralph:

Testing the "install" feature I think is a bit premature.. as it is with the beta 11e it will only install "IF" there is no pre existing copy in the system32 folder. This is how Jim circumvented the replacing of the play list... (I think).  

Not that it matters, but I don't think that is accurate.

Installers install, even if there is a pre-existing copy (it's called "updating").

And most installers (including the one that installs MA3 10d) do not replace existing files, like C:\Users\YOU\AppData\Roaming\Marine Aquarium 3\MA3Playlist.lst and MA3Logolist.lst, if they already exist (unless a file format change is necessary).

I understand Jim's reason for not doing it. I just note that the installer version would have eliminated the confusion between "how Nicki did it" and "how I did it", and why there were differing results. And the few hours that Nicki and I spent unnecessarily.

[Dale]

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

....

I think the confusion is caused by what this feature does NOT do:
1. It does NOT permanently add the filename and path to any saved list of screensavers, even if one existed.
....

So, what does this mean when testing MA3?
....
2. If you bring up the Display Properties again, Windows will build a list of available screensavers from those residing in your sys32 drawer. .  

Again, not that it matters, but that is not accurate - at least with Windows 7.

The list of available screensavers (in Display Properties, on my system) contains:

A. Screensavers that are not located in System32, but that I "right-click installed". (for instance, the E:\Screen Savers\Flying Toasters Retro\FlyingToasters.scr).

B. Screensavers that are apparently left over from an upgrade, and they don't work, and I don't know if there ever was a .scr file, and I don't know how to get them off the list. Such as "Windows XP" Screensaver.

However, although the list seems to contain almost all of the .scr files that are in System 32, some of them are not in the list - such as logon.scr, and MarineAquarium3_10d.scr (which is obviously how I renamed the previous version).

[Jim Sachs]

Anyone who wants to demonstrate the temporary nature of the right-click/install feature (with XP at any rate) can do this: Put a copy of MA3 anywhere EXCEPT system32. Rename it MA3X.scr. Hit right-click/install. When the Display Properties comes up, hit Apply, to make this copy your screensaver. It will appear in the list of available screensavers. You can exit Display Properties, and go back into it, and the name will still be on the list.

Now choose any other screensaver from the list, and hit Apply. The next time you bring up Display Properties, MA3X.scr will not be on the list. That's beacuse it was never copied to System32, so Windows can't find it. If it's not in the proper directory, it can only be found if it's the CURRENT screensaver (because the entire path to the current screensaver is in the Registry).

Now, if you had a copy of MA3 in System32, then right-click/install another copy, the second copy would be the one used, even though there's one in System32. Until you switch away from it, of course, then the System32 copy is the only one on the list again. Confusing, right? Just Say No to right-click/install.

[Dale]

I don't dispute that's the way it works in XP. I didn't test XP's behavior.

It seems to work differently in Windows 7. My selected screensaver is MA3, but I still see Flying Toasters in the selection list. Along with stuff that doesn't exist, but not some stuff that does reside in system32.

I have no idea now it works in Vista.

I certainly agree that, to avoid confusion, in XP, "Just Say No to right-click/install."

Footnote: "Rename it MA3X.scr....., etc." - in Windows 7, the name that appears in the selection list would not be MA3X - it would be the internal name of the screensaver ("SereneScreen Marine Aquarium 3"). Which doesn't have to have anything to do with the filename of the .scr file. I find that rather nice.

[cjmaddy]

If my above post caused any added confusion, let me just say this....

That is what it does, (in Win2k), I accept it, it's not a problem. - Why would I need/want to Right-click/Install when MA3 is already present in the Display Properties/Screensaver list. - Just download 11e from Jim's link, create a desktop icon, and double-click on it... Job done! - (That's what I've done with every update beta there has ever been, - why should I try to "Install" it - when I have MA3 already installed.? )

[Dale]

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

Just download 11e from Jim's link, create a desktop icon, and double-click on it... Job done! -  

Well, now I'm confused. Where do you put the .scr file that you download?

And in particular, why do you have to create a desktop icon when you already have one?

[cjmaddy]

Originally posted by Dale:

Well, now I'm confused. Where do you put the .scr file that you download?  

With the .zip file that I've just downloaded. (In a MA3 download-folder/sub-folder 11e.)

Originally posted by Dale:

And in particular, why do you have to create a desktop icon when you already have one?  

At that point, I don't have a desktop icon for 11e. - Hence, I right-click/drag the 11e .scr to the desktop, and 'Create Shortcut Here'.

[feldon34]

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

I right-click/drag the 11e .scr to the desktop, and 'Create Shortcut Here'.  

So you have two icons in the same place that take you to the same place?

Call me crazy, but I put screen savers where Microsoft designed them to go.

C:\Windows\system32\

[cjmaddy]

You are crazy....
Why would I have two icons in the same place that take me to the same place? - Extracting the .scr from the zip file doesn't create an icon.

[Wizwad]

You three are being deliberately obtuse for the entertainment of the viewing public, aren't you!

I'll pull up a chair to watch and if someone wants to pass the popcorn the show can continue.

I especially love Morgan's comment about "Putting them where Microsoft designed them to go". So that'll be C:\Windows\ then? Or C:\Windows\System64\? Or C:\Windows\SystemWow\ or ..\User\SysWow\ or whatever? How many different MS designated file destinations have we had now? I've lost track.

[cjmaddy]

Did you like the Mae West comment?

[Jim Sachs]

Cliff - yes.

Meanwhile...I got bogged down when I noticed some missing polygons when scrolling to the far left. Just above and to the right of the conch shell, a reddish-brown coral is supposed to be holding up the green coral, but it's missing. I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out why, then gave up on that and just started rebuilding that section. Guess I'll never know.

[Dale]

Originally posted by Wizwad:

You three are being deliberately obtuse for the entertainment of the viewing public, aren't you!  

Hey, don't include me with that - I just asked for a clarification, and I was quite satisfied with cjmaddy's answer.