Marine Aquarium 3 Comments & Appreciation - Page 40

Angalador · 12-14-2009, 01:49 AM

A friend of mine gave me a computer that had MA2 on it a while back. Loved the screensaver so decided to come see if anything new was around, saw the 3.0 version and bought it sight unseen/untested. Only disappointment is the current inability to darken the lighting. My comp is in my bedroom, and it is usually always running, so having the screen-saver being able to darken the background and foreground lighting like the 2.0+ versions would be wonderful as the current version adds a bit to much light to my bedroom at night.

I read the notes for future patches and look forward to seeing this eventually added. So far, totally loving it other than that one basically small detail. Thanks for producing such a high quality and enjoyable product.

~Sam

Jim Sachs · 12-14-2009, 09:06 AM

Thanks, Sam - and welcome to the Forum!

cjmaddy · 12-14-2009, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Angalador:

...Only disappointment is the current inability to darken the lighting. My comp is in my bedroom, and it is usually always running, so having the screen-saver being able to darken the background and foreground lighting like the 2.0+ versions would be wonderful as the current version adds a bit to much light to my bedroom at night.

I read the notes for future patches and look forward to seeing this eventually added. So far, totally loving it other than that one basically small detail....

~Sam

Some time ago, Jim, "...let us in to a little secret", for making a temporary change to the background colour, - in this thread.....
https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...81&#post112995
A sample of my settings, (BackgroundTopColor ff000080 and BackgroundBottomColor ff113111), can be seen here....
https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...94&#post113094

It might be worth experimenting a little? .... I know this doesn't darken the foreground lighting, - but it might help you get some sleep!

Angalador · 12-14-2009, 08:48 PM

Yup that worked wonderfully. I'll keep it at that setting until the finish for it comes up :-) Thanks again!

~Sam

Eyesuckle · 12-17-2009, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

The fish movement is what I've been working on for several months.

But you are right about the higher equipment requirements. What frame rate are you getting?

Hi Jim,

Sorry about the slow reply. I've been away. Unfortunately, I don't know where I would find my frame rate.

Can anyone tell me?

Thanks,

Eyesuckle

cjmaddy · 12-17-2009, 12:03 PM

After you have pressed the 'S' key to show the stats, use the UP-DOWN arrow keys to decrease/increase the Sleep() time, this will change the frame rate. Slow the fps down to something like 50 to 60. - Anything higher will just overheat your system, and not improve the quality
On my system, Sleep(17) gives about 65 fps.

Eyesuckle · 12-18-2009, 12:25 AM

cjmaddy:

I did as you suggested, and my frame rate was at about 45 fps. So I used the arrow keys to bring it up to about 56 fps, and the Harryhausen effect went away!

Thanks, also, to Jim Sachs for helping me with this problem--and a wonderful program.

ESHIREY · 12-18-2009, 11:24 AM

I'm glad everything worked out for you.

JohnWho · 12-24-2009, 03:44 PM

In keeping with the thread title - "Comments and Appreciation", I've already expressed Appreciation, so now, a comment:

In my opinion, a true "screen saver" changes all of the pixels on the screen every so often. MA3 almost does that, except for some of the background which at this time doesn't change color so unless a fish swims by that section the pixels aren't changed. Also, it doesn't appear to me that the fish make it all the way up to the top of the screen either, so that area is not changing as well.

I know - there is a future change that will vary the background similar to the way it does in ver 2.x. However, until that is completed, there remains this problem.

So - If one notices, the bubble column, when panned all the way right, comes to just a little way to the right of the center of the screen. As it pans left, these bubbles resolve the "screen saver pixel change" just fine.

Therefore, my question is - How difficult would it be to move the bubble column a bit to the right of the elk horn coral thereby allowing it to accomplish the full screen "pixel change" as the screen completes it's left/right scan?

With that change, assuming there are no known bugs, could this not be what is needed to drop the "beta" and then proceed with further enhancements as Version 3.1?

Just throwing this on the wall to see if it sticks. I'll clean up the wall later.

Jim Sachs · 12-24-2009, 04:29 PM

I future versions, I plan to let the user choose the number and locations of bubble columns.

JohnWho · 12-24-2009, 04:35 PM

Cool, I like bubbles, especially in sodas, beer, champagne and similar.

Just offering up a suggestion that might help you remove the "beta" tag while you continue with the other enhancements. Might help with the cash flow, too, since a lot of folks don't want to pay for a "beta".

Otherwise, hope you are having a pleasant Christmas Eve.

Dale · 12-24-2009, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by JohnWho:

In my opinion, a true "screen saver" changes all of the pixels on the screen every so often.

You're correct, of course.

As noted elsewhere in the forum, Jim does not think of MA3 as being a Screen Saver.

Jim Sachs · 12-24-2009, 10:30 PM

The night before I first shipped the Sachs Marine Aquarium simulation program (in 2000), a made a change which would allow the customers to use the program as a screen-blanker. I did this by changing the extension from .exe to .scr. From then on, many people seem to call it a screen-saver.

Angalador · 12-26-2009, 07:13 AM

Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays Everyone. Again Jim, thank you for the great program. I've had neighbors asking where to get it when they see it come up. I point them here. They can't believe it's programming and not video animating the fish. lol.

~A

JohnWho · 12-26-2009, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

The night before I first shipped the Sachs Marine Aquarium simulation program (in 2000), a made a change which would allow the customers to use the program as a screen-blanker. I did this by changing the extension from .exe to .scr. From then on, many people seem to call it a screen-saver.

I understand, Jim, and appreciate both the difference and the capability.

I guess I'm just pointing out that since so many of us use this as a "screen saver", having the entire screen experience a "pixel change" is somewhat desirable.

I know you've said you are working on having the background color change somewhat like it does on V 2.6 which would effect the complete pixel color change. I was only suggesting another possibility. Maybe it is more difficult to move the bubble column, in which case my suggestion isn't viable? I know you've said that ultimately you may provide a setting that allows an end user to place the bubble column in a few places in the aquarium.

We are simply looking at this from two very different perspectives - as programmer and end user. As an end user, I'm very happy with the program (except for the complete pixel change I've noted) as it is knowing that other improvements are in the wings. A lot of programs promise future enhancements or additions, so this is nothing unusual. I'm just expressing an opinion that if a complete pixel change capability was in MA3 beta, I believe you could drop the "beta" label. I also believe that the "beta" label prevents some folks from purchasing the product. Without the "beta", I suspect that cash flow would increase somewhat. I would think you would think that that is a "good thing", or at least a "couldn't hurt" thing.

Please don't take this an being argumentative or derogatory - that is not my intent. If I've stated this correctly I would hope that you recognize that my intent is sincere and offered as a beneficial suggestion not designed to imply any sort of negativity.

I've been in or around some level of the PC industry since 1983, and Marine Aquarium is the first "screen saver" that I've actually paid for - the free ones have worked fine for me - so if this isn't the best endorsement I can make, I don't know what would be. As I've stated in another thread, I've recommended MA3 beta to a lot of folks and show it every month at the local PC User's Group meeting, projected on a "big screen", during our Q & A session.

Sorry to be so long-winded.

Wish you well.

Jim Sachs · 12-26-2009, 09:53 AM

Angalador - Thanks for the kind words.

JohnWho - Thanks for the suggestions.

cjmaddy · 12-26-2009, 11:23 AM

Recent contributors seem to be concerned with the fish movements, background lighting, and the "Beta" tag... etc, etc.
As an old-timer here, (in both senses of the word), for me, fish movements appear slightly better, (ie. smoother), in MA2.6, for a number of reasons....

A, There are fewer fish in MA2.6.
B, The tank size was only one screen wide in MA2.6, - not the 2.5 screens wide as in MA3
C, The environment is only 2D in 2.6, whereas in MA3 the environment is 3D. - Which is far more complicated and demanding.
D, MA2.6 had "calculate Normals", (by pressing the 'N' key), which gave a more fluid lifelike movement. Particularly noticeable around the tail areas.

All will change, however... once Jim succeeds in his efforts to completely rebuild the new MA3 fish models... and then add all the other planned-for features.

Therefore, I think that the fact that the current fish in MA3 are all based on the older fish models from MA2.6, (and not the ones Jim intended for MA3).....Then it is more than reasonable to still call this current 10d version of MA3, 'Beta'.

A read back through a few of the threads here, (or even just this one thread), will show what is planned and has been discussed over the years.

Jim Sachs · 12-26-2009, 11:36 AM

All true.

Dale · 12-26-2009, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by JohnWho:

I guess I'm just pointing out that since so many of us use this as a "screen saver", having the entire screen experience a "pixel change" is somewhat desirable.
.

Could you expound on why this is desirable for you?

JohnWho · 12-26-2009, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

Could you expound on why this is desirable for you?

The original definition, and purpose, of a "screen saver" was to either blank the screen or often "refresh" all of the screen "pixels". So, it is "desirable" now, since it is much more difficult to burn in an image on a modern LCD screen (although still possible) mostly for aesthetically cosmetic reasons.

To me, and possibly others (I can not be sure), refreshing all of the screen simply shows attention to detail. Ver 2.6 can do it. While the program may not be offered primarily as a screen saver, since that capability is afforded, why not make it more "complete"?

Some of the planned features of MA3 will allow this, so in the long term, it's really a non-issue since it will be addressed for whatever reason.

12-14-2009, 09:06 AM	#782
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Thanks, Sam - and welcome to the Forum! Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

12-17-2009, 04:26 AM	#785
Eyesuckle Registered Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3	Frame Rate Originally posted by Jim Sachs: The fish movement is what I've been working on for several months. But you are right about the higher equipment requirements. What frame rate are you getting? Hi Jim, Sorry about the slow reply. I've been away. Unfortunately, I don't know where I would find my frame rate. Can anyone tell me? Thanks, Eyesuckle

12-18-2009, 12:25 AM	#787
Eyesuckle Registered Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3	Thank you! cjmaddy: I did as you suggested, and my frame rate was at about 45 fps. So I used the arrow keys to bring it up to about 56 fps, and the Harryhausen effect went away! Thanks, also, to Jim Sachs for helping me with this problem--and a wonderful program.

12-18-2009, 11:24 AM	#788
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	I'm glad everything worked out for you. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

12-24-2009, 04:29 PM	#790
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	I future versions, I plan to let the user choose the number and locations of bubble columns. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

12-14-2009, 01:49 AM	#781
Angalador Registered Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kihei, Hawaii Posts: 4	A friend of mine gave me a computer that had MA2 on it a while back. Loved the screensaver so decided to come see if anything new was around, saw the 3.0 version and bought it sight unseen/untested. Only disappointment is the current inability to darken the lighting. My comp is in my bedroom, and it is usually always running, so having the screen-saver being able to darken the background and foreground lighting like the 2.0+ versions would be wonderful as the current version adds a bit to much light to my bedroom at night. I read the notes for future patches and look forward to seeing this eventually added. So far, totally loving it other than that one basically small detail. Thanks for producing such a high quality and enjoyable product. ~Sam

12-14-2009, 10:51 AM	#783
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Originally posted by Angalador: ...Only disappointment is the current inability to darken the lighting. My comp is in my bedroom, and it is usually always running, so having the screen-saver being able to darken the background and foreground lighting like the 2.0+ versions would be wonderful as the current version adds a bit to much light to my bedroom at night. I read the notes for future patches and look forward to seeing this eventually added. So far, totally loving it other than that one basically small detail.... ~Sam Some time ago, Jim, "...let us in to a little secret", for making a temporary change to the background colour, - in this thread..... https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...81&#post112995 A sample of my settings, (BackgroundTopColor ff000080 and BackgroundBottomColor ff113111), can be seen here.... https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...94&#post113094 It might be worth experimenting a little? .... I know this doesn't darken the foreground lighting, - but it might help you get some sleep!

12-14-2009, 08:48 PM	#784
Angalador Registered Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kihei, Hawaii Posts: 4	Yup that worked wonderfully. I'll keep it at that setting until the finish for it comes up :-) Thanks again! ~Sam

12-17-2009, 12:03 PM	#786
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	After you have pressed the 'S' key to show the stats, use the UP-DOWN arrow keys to decrease/increase the Sleep() time, this will change the frame rate. Slow the fps down to something like 50 to 60. - Anything higher will just overheat your system, and not improve the quality On my system, Sleep(17) gives about 65 fps.

12-24-2009, 03:44 PM	#789
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	In keeping with the thread title - "Comments and Appreciation", I've already expressed Appreciation, so now, a comment: In my opinion, a true "screen saver" changes all of the pixels on the screen every so often. MA3 almost does that, except for some of the background which at this time doesn't change color so unless a fish swims by that section the pixels aren't changed. Also, it doesn't appear to me that the fish make it all the way up to the top of the screen either, so that area is not changing as well. I know - there is a future change that will vary the background similar to the way it does in ver 2.x. However, until that is completed, there remains this problem. So - If one notices, the bubble column, when panned all the way right, comes to just a little way to the right of the center of the screen. As it pans left, these bubbles resolve the "screen saver pixel change" just fine. Therefore, my question is - How difficult would it be to move the bubble column a bit to the right of the elk horn coral thereby allowing it to accomplish the full screen "pixel change" as the screen completes it's left/right scan? With that change, assuming there are no known bugs, could this not be what is needed to drop the "beta" and then proceed with further enhancements as Version 3.1? Just throwing this on the wall to see if it sticks. I'll clean up the wall later.

12-24-2009, 04:35 PM	#791
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Cool, I like bubbles, especially in sodas, beer, champagne and similar. Just offering up a suggestion that might help you remove the "beta" tag while you continue with the other enhancements. Might help with the cash flow, too, since a lot of folks don't want to pay for a "beta". Otherwise, hope you are having a pleasant Christmas Eve.

12-24-2009, 09:11 PM	#792
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JohnWho: In my opinion, a true "screen saver" changes all of the pixels on the screen every so often. You're correct, of course. As noted elsewhere in the forum, Jim does not think of MA3 as being a Screen Saver.

12-24-2009, 10:30 PM	#793
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	The night before I first shipped the Sachs Marine Aquarium simulation program (in 2000), a made a change which would allow the customers to use the program as a screen-blanker. I did this by changing the extension from .exe to .scr. From then on, many people seem to call it a screen-saver. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

12-26-2009, 07:13 AM	#794
Angalador Registered Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kihei, Hawaii Posts: 4	Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays Everyone. Again Jim, thank you for the great program. I've had neighbors asking where to get it when they see it come up. I point them here. They can't believe it's programming and not video animating the fish. lol. ~A

12-26-2009, 08:47 AM	#795
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: The night before I first shipped the Sachs Marine Aquarium simulation program (in 2000), a made a change which would allow the customers to use the program as a screen-blanker. I did this by changing the extension from .exe to .scr. From then on, many people seem to call it a screen-saver. I understand, Jim, and appreciate both the difference and the capability. I guess I'm just pointing out that since so many of us use this as a "screen saver", having the entire screen experience a "pixel change" is somewhat desirable. I know you've said you are working on having the background color change somewhat like it does on V 2.6 which would effect the complete pixel color change. I was only suggesting another possibility. Maybe it is more difficult to move the bubble column, in which case my suggestion isn't viable? I know you've said that ultimately you may provide a setting that allows an end user to place the bubble column in a few places in the aquarium. We are simply looking at this from two very different perspectives - as programmer and end user. As an end user, I'm very happy with the program (except for the complete pixel change I've noted) as it is knowing that other improvements are in the wings. A lot of programs promise future enhancements or additions, so this is nothing unusual. I'm just expressing an opinion that if a complete pixel change capability was in MA3 beta, I believe you could drop the "beta" label. I also believe that the "beta" label prevents some folks from purchasing the product. Without the "beta", I suspect that cash flow would increase somewhat. I would think you would think that that is a "good thing", or at least a "couldn't hurt" thing. Please don't take this an being argumentative or derogatory - that is not my intent. If I've stated this correctly I would hope that you recognize that my intent is sincere and offered as a beneficial suggestion not designed to imply any sort of negativity. I've been in or around some level of the PC industry since 1983, and Marine Aquarium is the first "screen saver" that I've actually paid for - the free ones have worked fine for me - so if this isn't the best endorsement I can make, I don't know what would be. As I've stated in another thread, I've recommended MA3 beta to a lot of folks and show it every month at the local PC User's Group meeting, projected on a "big screen", during our Q & A session. Sorry to be so long-winded. Wish you well.

12-26-2009, 09:53 AM	#796
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Angalador - Thanks for the kind words. JohnWho - Thanks for the suggestions. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

12-26-2009, 11:23 AM	#797
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Recent contributors seem to be concerned with the fish movements, background lighting, and the "Beta" tag... etc, etc. As an old-timer here, (in both senses of the word), for me, fish movements appear slightly better, (ie. smoother), in MA2.6, for a number of reasons.... A, There are fewer fish in MA2.6. B, The tank size was only one screen wide in MA2.6, - not the 2.5 screens wide as in MA3 C, The environment is only 2D in 2.6, whereas in MA3 the environment is 3D. - Which is far more complicated and demanding. D, MA2.6 had "calculate Normals", (by pressing the 'N' key), which gave a more fluid lifelike movement. Particularly noticeable around the tail areas. All will change, however... once Jim succeeds in his efforts to completely rebuild the new MA3 fish models... and then add all the other planned-for features. Therefore, I think that the fact that the current fish in MA3 are all based on the older fish models from MA2.6, (and not the ones Jim intended for MA3).....Then it is more than reasonable to still call this current 10d version of MA3, 'Beta'. A read back through a few of the threads here, (or even just this one thread), will show what is planned and has been discussed over the years.

12-26-2009, 11:36 AM	#798
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	All true. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

12-26-2009, 12:34 PM	#799
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JohnWho: I guess I'm just pointing out that since so many of us use this as a "screen saver", having the entire screen experience a "pixel change" is somewhat desirable. . Could you expound on why this is desirable for you?

12-26-2009, 05:03 PM	#800
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by Dale: Could you expound on why this is desirable for you? The original definition, and purpose, of a "screen saver" was to either blank the screen or often "refresh" all of the screen "pixels". So, it is "desirable" now, since it is much more difficult to burn in an image on a modern LCD screen (although still possible) mostly for aesthetically cosmetic reasons. To me, and possibly others (I can not be sure), refreshing all of the screen simply shows attention to detail. Ver 2.6 can do it. While the program may not be offered primarily as a screen saver, since that capability is afforded, why not make it more "complete"? Some of the planned features of MA3 will allow this, so in the long term, it's really a non-issue since it will be addressed for whatever reason.