What's it look like? (Snapshot of Goldfish Aquarium) - Page 5

Digital Lungfish · 03-24-2003, 03:09 PM

Finally, some fish that don't look like they've gone to Jenny Craig when they turn to face the screen.

(must resist the Ally McBeal jokes, must resist...)

top_Cat · 03-24-2003, 03:17 PM

Reichart: thanks for the closer picture, it really does look fantastic. Any more pictures on offer?

Vish · 03-24-2003, 03:56 PM

That fish looks so real ! !
I am not sure about the background though...as it is not clear...

top_Cat · 03-24-2003, 06:59 PM

..... oh I want it now! it looks so good, I can't wait to see the other fish all swimming about together.

Any word on a release date yet?

Also if this version written in DirectX 9 does it take advantage of any of the advanced features of newer graphics cards? I am just thinking about the 3DMark2001SE benchmark (advanced pixel shaders) with the swimming fish, that looked good. Be interesting to know

cheerz

Reichart · 03-24-2003, 07:02 PM

Goldfish supports DX 7. Says it all.

feldon34 · 03-24-2003, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by top_Cat
I am just thinking about the 3DMark2001SE benchmark (advanced pixel shaders) with the swimming fish, that looked good. Be interesting to know

SereneScreen and Prolific's 3D products are their own benchmarks.

Seriously, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

top_Cat · 03-24-2003, 07:55 PM

Thanks for the reply,

Any plans to allowed end-users to add custom content (that they have built) into Goldfish?

A lot of software makers seem to be allowing end-user to design and add more content (take quake, Neverwinter Nights, Unreal etc...). I know it would allow for very interesting developments and also make people more willing to buy Goldfish. You can never get to many 'objects' to choose from.

Thanks

Tiny Turtle · 03-25-2003, 04:17 AM

Top,
Check around a bit on the forum. This has been up on *several* occasions and so far the chances of this being implemented are somewhere between none and, um... none.

/Tiny Chance

top_Cat · 03-25-2003, 04:54 AM

Thanks for the update, I thought it probably would be but I think that they are missing out in the long term. Allowing users to create content will make there product more desirable AND people do it for FREE!

drfish · 03-25-2003, 05:37 AM

Wow! That looks so great!

Jennifer better let me upgrade her video card now!

So what kind of machine is it going to take to run that thing at, say, 1600x1200 32bit and 60+fps??? Are my Athlon 800 and Radeon 8500 going to make the cut? Jennifer's got a 700Mhz Celeron, if I stuck a PCI Radeon 7500 in there could I do 1152x864/32bit/60+fps?

Reichart · 03-25-2003, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by top_Cat
Thanks for the update, I thought it probably would be but I think that they are missing out in the long term. Allowing users to create content will make there product more desirable AND people do it for FREE!

That is one view. Having been in this for the “long term,” and being the best selling screen art program in the world, I would like to humbly go on the record as disagreeing with you. I’m truly not trying to be cocky; but here is the cool thing, there “are” product that let you do this (modify the tanks). Find one, and improve it, and you have the best of both worlds.

I had a funny conversation (in reverse once) with a friend of mine, who created a video game called Command & Conquer. He had told me that he was heavily influenced by a game I had designed years before called Return Fire. At that point they had already sold about 3.5 million units. And he says “I wish I had made it even more like RF, we gave the game to many features. I said, “But you have already sold the most of any game in history in its genre.” But he was still not satisfied. They went on to double their sales after simplifying the product (and then sold themselves to EA). They did this by making their next version simpler.

I tend to believe in keeping things simple, and tightly controlling things. But I believe the opposite for utilities and productivity products. This on the other hand is entertainment.

top_Cat · 03-25-2003, 07:41 AM

Although I do agree with some of the points you make, I think if you look at the most successful entertainment products (specifically games) they allow the end-user to add more content that is designed by other user. As I mentions before take Quake, Neverwinter Nights, Unreal. The newest of these is Neverwinter Nights which has created a MASSIVE loyal user based (in a relatively short time) because of this fact.

I agree that simplifying things is very much the best idea. I don't think the average user wants to install 3D Studio Max and make a model. Although allowing the possibility for this means that the "enthusiasts" who want to spend months of their free time to “improve” your product can. You then cover all your options are the "enthusiasts" will be happy as they WANT to give there time to you for free and the average user will also be happy as they can get lots of things to add to their fish tank.

Once the object has been completed user can import a new object. Making the importing of new objects easy should, in my opinion, be focused on. As long as “Joe public” can import them simply then you will not have a problem.

This I believe generates loyalty to your product and means more people will recommend it to friends (and everyone know that positive word of mouth is the best selling tool there is).

I am sure that most people here would agree that allowing for the “possibility” of created end-user objects would be fantastic, and they are your dedicated customers after all.

Thanks
Top Cat

Reichart · 03-25-2003, 08:02 AM

In other products (Quake, Neverwinter Nights, Unreal), the fish look like.....................crap.

Even the custom made ones.

P.S. Not trying to argue with you here, but the economics behind all three put together don’t compare to games made with hardware dongles like Pokemon, and Mario.

Our most loyal customers, "are" because we slave day and night to produce the most realistic experience in the smallest space that works on the largest array of computers. Anything less, and so is their loyalty. But that aside…

top_Cat · 03-25-2003, 08:12 AM

LOL, yeah the fish never look that great in Quake (your goldfish are much nicer)

I would have to say that it seems a bit odd to try to compare different platforms, we all know that Playstation games have sold loads but the platform does not allow for customisable content (not seen 3D Max released for N64 yet! lol) so that really isn't a very sound statement.

If look at the platform that does allow end-user content to be added (PC) then it is clear that a major part of Quakes, Unreal etc.... success could be put down to new content available from other users.

Remember that the end-user wants to do it for you, wants to help, wants to try to improve things, wants to provide feedback! and all this for free. - I think if you ignore this avenue you are not getting the full potential out of your product.

Tom

Reichart · 03-25-2003, 08:55 AM

1. Q: … so that really isn't a very sound statement.
A: Oops, you just changed the playing field in this debate. As a point of order I call a point of privilege and attention to the fundamental erroneous comparative of the abstract symbolic representation of an almost comic nature in video games to that of the fine art presented in our product with the statement “it seems a bit odd to try to compare different platforms.”

Let me be more direct. Although I consider your original proposition and supporting example to have already been sophistic in nature , even the Louvre does not offer a paint by number kit with each original print of the Mona Lisa. Although I’m sure there is a company that does.

So, again I suggest, our loyalty is ensured by producing the highest quality of product for our customers. But the feature you suggest is a great one, and luckily there are several outlets that offer “make you own beer kits” out there for the finer connoisseurs among us.

I will leave this as it stands, and for others here to cast their views.

top_Cat · 03-25-2003, 09:17 AM

I believe previously you were placing PC Games and Goldfish under the same umbrella as "This on the other hand is entertainment." but if you want to make a separation now then that is fine. I don't completely agree with it, I would stand by the original statement that they are both "entertainment".

I would agree that people will be VERY happy with the product that you will produce (I have seen the screenshots and it looks fantastic…. “fine art” would be a good comparison). I just hold the view that to get the maximum out of your product allowing end-users to participate in its growth would be a wiser course of action. By building a network of “enthusiasts” that are continually adding more choices and content (free) for your users, you will be in a position where none of your competitors will be able to match you.

Again the choices are always up to you, I appreciate the forum and you taking the time to answer some of the questions. Probably a best time to end this debate before it takes over the whole thread

Thanks
Top Cat

Jav400 · 03-25-2003, 10:33 AM

One thing that I think has been left out of this debate, ironic as it is, is the fact that this forum does exist. You are talking directly to the people who are doing the work and receiving answers promptly and concise in nature. You can offer your suggestions for fish/creatures to be made and included, ( holding the same high standards as previous fish ), and request settings options and program options which are included primarily because of suggestions that came from users posting here.

I would suggest that this whole endevour is somewhere between the 2 examples given, and is the most beneficial option of including user ideas, and maintaining a high standard product, which is what Serene Screen is known for.

Jim Sachs · 03-25-2003, 10:51 AM

Top_Cat -

Bear in mind that the "Never!!!" position that I have always taken with my line of products (SereneScreen) does not necessarily apply to Prolific's products, like the Goldfish Tank. Reichart has always been much more open-minded than me about such things.

feldon34 · 03-25-2003, 11:04 AM

Again, if you think you've got what it takes to make fish or otherwise contribute in some way to these products, e-mail Prolific.

Reichart · 03-25-2003, 11:53 AM

[i]I would suggest that this whole endevour is somewhere between the 2 examples given, and is the most beneficial option of including user ideas, and maintaining a high standard product, which is what Serene Screen is known for.

[/b]

Well said Mike, now...there is no space between Serene and Screen.

Quality police

03-24-2003, 03:09 PM	#81
Digital Lungfish Obey the toad! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,557	Finally, some fish that don't look like they've gone to Jenny Craig when they turn to face the screen. (must resist the Ally McBeal jokes, must resist...) Steve www.tron-sector.com - www.badcartridge.com - www.classicgaming.com - www.dinofish.com Today is the tomorrow you were worried about yesterday...

03-24-2003, 03:56 PM	#83
Vish Registered Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: California Posts: 103	That fish looks so real ! ! I am not sure about the background though...as it is not clear... --Vish

03-24-2003, 07:02 PM	#85
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	Support Goldfish supports DX 7. Says it all. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-24-2003, 07:37 PM	#86
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by top_Cat I am just thinking about the 3DMark2001SE benchmark (advanced pixel shaders) with the swimming fish, that looked good. Be interesting to know SereneScreen and Prolific's 3D products are their own benchmarks. Seriously, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-25-2003, 04:17 AM	#88
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Top, Check around a bit on the forum. This has been up on several occasions and so far the chances of this being implemented are somewhere between none and, um... none. /Tiny Chance Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

03-24-2003, 03:17 PM	#82
top_Cat Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 23	Reichart: thanks for the closer picture, it really does look fantastic. Any more pictures on offer?

03-24-2003, 06:59 PM	#84
top_Cat Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 23	..... oh I want it now! it looks so good, I can't wait to see the other fish all swimming about together. Any word on a release date yet? Also if this version written in DirectX 9 does it take advantage of any of the advanced features of newer graphics cards? I am just thinking about the 3DMark2001SE benchmark (advanced pixel shaders) with the swimming fish, that looked good. Be interesting to know cheerz

03-24-2003, 07:55 PM	#87
top_Cat Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 23	Thanks for the reply, Any plans to allowed end-users to add custom content (that they have built) into Goldfish? A lot of software makers seem to be allowing end-user to design and add more content (take quake, Neverwinter Nights, Unreal etc...). I know it would allow for very interesting developments and also make people more willing to buy Goldfish. You can never get to many 'objects' to choose from. Thanks

03-25-2003, 04:54 AM	#89
top_Cat Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 23	Thanks for the update, I thought it probably would be but I think that they are missing out in the long term. Allowing users to create content will make there product more desirable AND people do it for FREE!

03-25-2003, 05:37 AM	#90
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Wow! That looks so great! Jennifer better let me upgrade her video card now! So what kind of machine is it going to take to run that thing at, say, 1600x1200 32bit and 60+fps??? Are my Athlon 800 and Radeon 8500 going to make the cut? Jennifer's got a 700Mhz Celeron, if I stuck a PCI Radeon 7500 in there could I do 1152x864/32bit/60+fps? I don't watch commercials.

03-25-2003, 07:20 AM	#91
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	Change Originally posted by top_Cat Thanks for the update, I thought it probably would be but I think that they are missing out in the long term. Allowing users to create content will make there product more desirable AND people do it for FREE! That is one view. Having been in this for the “long term,” and being the best selling screen art program in the world, I would like to humbly go on the record as disagreeing with you. I’m truly not trying to be cocky; but here is the cool thing, there “are” product that let you do this (modify the tanks). Find one, and improve it, and you have the best of both worlds. I had a funny conversation (in reverse once) with a friend of mine, who created a video game called Command & Conquer. He had told me that he was heavily influenced by a game I had designed years before called Return Fire. At that point they had already sold about 3.5 million units. And he says “I wish I had made it even more like RF, we gave the game to many features. I said, “But you have already sold the most of any game in history in its genre.” But he was still not satisfied. They went on to double their sales after simplifying the product (and then sold themselves to EA). They did this by making their next version simpler. I tend to believe in keeping things simple, and tightly controlling things. But I believe the opposite for utilities and productivity products. This on the other hand is entertainment. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-25-2003, 07:41 AM	#92
top_Cat Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 23	Although I do agree with some of the points you make, I think if you look at the most successful entertainment products (specifically games) they allow the end-user to add more content that is designed by other user. As I mentions before take Quake, Neverwinter Nights, Unreal. The newest of these is Neverwinter Nights which has created a MASSIVE loyal user based (in a relatively short time) because of this fact. I agree that simplifying things is very much the best idea. I don't think the average user wants to install 3D Studio Max and make a model. Although allowing the possibility for this means that the "enthusiasts" who want to spend months of their free time to “improve” your product can. You then cover all your options are the "enthusiasts" will be happy as they WANT to give there time to you for free and the average user will also be happy as they can get lots of things to add to their fish tank. Once the object has been completed user can import a new object. Making the importing of new objects easy should, in my opinion, be focused on. As long as “Joe public” can import them simply then you will not have a problem. This I believe generates loyalty to your product and means more people will recommend it to friends (and everyone know that positive word of mouth is the best selling tool there is). I am sure that most people here would agree that allowing for the “possibility” of created end-user objects would be fantastic, and they are your dedicated customers after all. Thanks Top Cat

03-25-2003, 08:02 AM	#93
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	Low polycarb. In other products (Quake, Neverwinter Nights, Unreal), the fish look like.....................crap. Even the custom made ones. P.S. Not trying to argue with you here, but the economics behind all three put together don’t compare to games made with hardware dongles like Pokemon, and Mario. Our most loyal customers, "are" because we slave day and night to produce the most realistic experience in the smallest space that works on the largest array of computers. Anything less, and so is their loyalty. But that aside… *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-25-2003, 08:12 AM	#94
top_Cat Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 23	LOL, yeah the fish never look that great in Quake (your goldfish are much nicer) I would have to say that it seems a bit odd to try to compare different platforms, we all know that Playstation games have sold loads but the platform does not allow for customisable content (not seen 3D Max released for N64 yet! lol) so that really isn't a very sound statement. If look at the platform that does allow end-user content to be added (PC) then it is clear that a major part of Quakes, Unreal etc.... success could be put down to new content available from other users. Remember that the end-user wants to do it for you, wants to help, wants to try to improve things, wants to provide feedback! and all this for free. - I think if you ignore this avenue you are not getting the full potential out of your product. Tom

03-25-2003, 08:55 AM	#95
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	Rules of enagement. 1. Q: … so that really isn't a very sound statement. A: Oops, you just changed the playing field in this debate. As a point of order I call a point of privilege and attention to the fundamental erroneous comparative of the abstract symbolic representation of an almost comic nature in video games to that of the fine art presented in our product with the statement “it seems a bit odd to try to compare different platforms.” Let me be more direct. Although I consider your original proposition and supporting example to have already been sophistic in nature , even the Louvre does not offer a paint by number kit with each original print of the Mona Lisa. Although I’m sure there is a company that does. So, again I suggest, our loyalty is ensured by producing the highest quality of product for our customers. But the feature you suggest is a great one, and luckily there are several outlets that offer “make you own beer kits” out there for the finer connoisseurs among us. I will leave this as it stands, and for others here to cast their views. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-25-2003, 09:17 AM	#96
top_Cat Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 23	I believe previously you were placing PC Games and Goldfish under the same umbrella as "This on the other hand is entertainment." but if you want to make a separation now then that is fine. I don't completely agree with it, I would stand by the original statement that they are both "entertainment". I would agree that people will be VERY happy with the product that you will produce (I have seen the screenshots and it looks fantastic…. “fine art” would be a good comparison). I just hold the view that to get the maximum out of your product allowing end-users to participate in its growth would be a wiser course of action. By building a network of “enthusiasts” that are continually adding more choices and content (free) for your users, you will be in a position where none of your competitors will be able to match you. Again the choices are always up to you, I appreciate the forum and you taking the time to answer some of the questions. Probably a best time to end this debate before it takes over the whole thread Thanks Top Cat

03-25-2003, 10:33 AM	#97
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	One thing that I think has been left out of this debate, ironic as it is, is the fact that this forum does exist. You are talking directly to the people who are doing the work and receiving answers promptly and concise in nature. You can offer your suggestions for fish/creatures to be made and included, ( holding the same high standards as previous fish ), and request settings options and program options which are included primarily because of suggestions that came from users posting here. I would suggest that this whole endevour is somewhere between the 2 examples given, and is the most beneficial option of including user ideas, and maintaining a high standard product, which is what Serene Screen is known for. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

03-25-2003, 10:51 AM	#98
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Top_Cat - Bear in mind that the "Never!!!" position that I have always taken with my line of products (SereneScreen) does not necessarily apply to Prolific's products, like the Goldfish Tank. Reichart has always been much more open-minded than me about such things. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-25-2003, 11:04 AM	#99
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Again, if you think you've got what it takes to make fish or otherwise contribute in some way to these products, e-mail Prolific. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-25-2003, 11:53 AM	#100
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	Quality [i]I would suggest that this whole endevour is somewhere between the 2 examples given, and is the most beneficial option of including user ideas, and maintaining a high standard product, which is what Serene Screen is known for. [/b] Well said Mike, now...there is no space between Serene and Screen. Quality police *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.