Flag Burning (Political Commentary) - Page 5

03-30-2004, 03:02 PM

Dang! Politics and religion in the same thread. Good job, Marian. I'm calling my Senator (no, wait, he's on Mars).

Marian Nichols · 03-30-2004, 03:31 PM

He and Eydasi are having a go at us.

Jim Sachs · 03-30-2004, 04:40 PM

Now, Marian - The Islamists would say exactly the same thing, only it would be their religion in charge.

Religion has no place in Government. Our founding fathers were wise in separating Church and State. That's the only way it can possibly work as long as there are people who are sure that their beliefs, superstitions, customs, etc., are Right and others are Wrong. It's the government's job to remain unbiased, only stepping in when one group is infringing on the rights of others.

Personally, I have no interest in religion, but would never try to sway anyone from their beliefs. If it works for them, more power to them. I enjoy multi-cultural neighborhoods with many different belief systems co-existing in harmony. Makes for an interesting mix of restaurants.

Reichart · 03-30-2004, 04:52 PM

Sachs is kicking up political dust.....
Addy agreed with me............

What the hell happened?

If it is going to be like this, I'm out of here.

Wizwad · 03-30-2004, 05:05 PM

Even if you DID send all the senators to Mars, could you, even then, guarantee that thre was intelligent life there?

Reichart, I agree with you too!

As to the US feeling spending thousands on feeling sorry for people, how much of that is "We'll help you IF... you do as we tell you, believe what we tell you, and act like the good little puppies we want you to be?"

/I didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the world's been turning... (apologies to Billy Joel)

drfish · 03-30-2004, 05:21 PM

Gah! What happened??? When I left work we were joking about Jim-inions!!! You guys are impossible, don't you know when to call it quits?

I don't even TRY to talk about anything political/religious/controversial anymore, I've given up (yes, and all that implies). I like an intelligent discussion as well as any of you but I'm sick of the same old rehashed arguments/propaganda/excuses/whatever and people who can't form their own opinion. Not that I don't believe that people shouldn't be allowed to say whatever they want, but there are too many different perspectives for them to EVER form one cohesive viewpoint, and people need to realize that...

This is getting too long, and it's already not what I want to say... There is WAY to much to talk about to even hope to come close to explaining it/ourselves fully... Anyone trying to summarize their position on a topic like this one will never be able to cover all their bases, especially not in a setting like this and especially when they're not fully informed, which, believe it or not, NONE of us are (FOX, ABC, NBC, BBC, etc don't count people).

I (as in me, myself and) don't think this is the place for this discussion. I feel like a *insert derogatory name of your choice here* for saying that, and I know I did a poor job of it at that, but I've never been good at writing things I really want to say, so I'll call it good enough and wait...

Edit: Morgan, should this been moved into some kind of "smokey back room" thread where stuff like this can be "freely" talked about? Also, just so everyone knows, Reichart posted while I was in mid-stealth-edit, at the point of his reply the only thing I had posted was the first line at the top of this post...

Reichart · 03-30-2004, 05:22 PM

Quit!?!?

If you had a flag...I would, er, burn it just to show you we are not quiters.

Marian Nichols · 03-30-2004, 05:55 PM

Of course Jim you are right, I do not believe in mixing government and religion, I believe in the separation of church and state; yes, it does not, nor will it ever work, in today’s World.

I know we can not give up on governing our own countries, Man has come a long way since the days of the caveman and he will do a lot more before the return of Christ. It does not matter that any one believes this, it still will happen. You can even have no beliefs at all, and the God I believe in, is slow to anger, but Man has turned his face from his creator and God temper grows short … and Man can not endured without him.

Islam is part of Christianity, they descend from the first son of Abraham, they will reunite with their sibling.

End of Sermon. Just letting you know there still is hope, there can be peace, and there always will be love.

Jim Sachs · 03-30-2004, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Wizwad

As to the US feeling spending thousands on feeling sorry for people, how much of that is "We'll help you IF... you do as we tell you, believe what we tell you, and act like the good little puppies we want you to be?"

You're wrong about that, Mark. The preservation of local cultures is yet another of the things we agonize endlessly over. "Are you guys all set, now? Do you have everything you need for your Death-To-America Day celebration?"

03-30-2004, 08:08 PM

Whoee! Let the games begin! (or end, as I think this thread will soon be closed). I jumped in in the midst of things (into the fire, or the line of fire, so to speak), so perhaps I should have just kept my mouth shut (impossible, you say). No need to get riled, Reichart (handsome avatar, by the way) or Doc Fish. None of us has his or her finger on the button, none of us sets the policies or starts or stops the wars (read: atrocities). We're just Marine and Goldfish lovers (now there's a couple of perjoratives for you) that have a heck of a lot of opinions. Glad I could express mine, no matter how naieve or uninformed they are. I'm sure if I'm way off base, someone her will elucidate me (where's a lightbulb smilie when you need one?). I've had one after-work screwdriver, and probably shouldn't post when I'm tipsy, but hey, I hope we're all [still] friends here. This has actually seemed rather mild compared to some of the political diatribe I've seen flare up and smoulder and then go out on this forum. One thing it has done is pique my interest in Flags of the World. Can I put a picture of myself on a flag, then set it on fire? Flame on, ya'll (no offense Liath, but I like that better than y'all).

patscarr · 03-30-2004, 10:52 PM

You know, this thread isn't so bad at all and doesn't need to be closed just yet. What I like best about it is that everyone is giving their own opinions with hardly any flaming involved.

Tiny Turtle · 03-31-2004, 12:37 AM

So, anybody want a new avatar?

Jim Sachs · 03-31-2004, 12:47 AM

Ha, ha - TT to the rescue with some comic relief

drfish · 03-31-2004, 04:43 AM

Hey, did moving this thread effect post count for anyone? I normally don't even pay attention to it, but I remember passing 666 a day or two ago and I was well into the mid 670s... Now I'm back to 670 (well, 668 before I posted a couple things this morning)? I don't care much, but what's up?

Edit: I guess my minions humor attempt was a failed one... I was going to throw everyone off by saying that Jennifer noticed Reichart's avatar yesterday and called him "pretty sexy." ...oops...

Marian Nichols · 03-31-2004, 05:12 AM

A thought on the flags of nations undergoing political change, if I was a citizen of one theses countries, I would vote for a flag re-design. When a symbol becomes associated with anything, be it good or bad, then in people’s minds it is always associated with it.
Think of certain symbols, the swastika, the cross, the flag of the confederacy of the US, the fish, the Star of David, all of these immediately bring to mind a religious, a race of people, a government.. You understand my meaning and you will never be able to think of anything else associated with that symbol or that flag.

Tiny Turtle · 03-31-2004, 05:47 AM

Most countries flags had already been around for quite some time when such a political problem came up.

In some cases there have been changes made, Romania is a good example with their removal of the communist arms, following the fall of the Ceaucescu regime (in '89, was it?)

How about if everybody put a picture of J. Christ Almighty on their flag? After all that's the only solution, right?

I just have to ask if Buddhism too is part of Christianity? Or Hinduism?

Doc,
...Jennifer on Reichart, – now that's humor!

Marian Nichols · 03-31-2004, 06:54 AM

Sorry for my remark of earlier, TT. It was way off subject and I really would like to just let that one lie, if you don't mind.

But to the subject of flag re-design, the US flag has undergone many changes whenever we would add a new state.

Tiny Turtle · 03-31-2004, 07:36 AM

OK, cool with me.

I like the original thirteen-state version with the stars in a circle.

/Tiny Roundabout

drfish · 03-31-2004, 07:40 AM

Heh... That's the one my dad currently flies...

Jav400 · 03-31-2004, 09:54 AM

Tiny,

In response to your comment about the different religions. No, they are all different on the basic premise. Thats about as far as I will go concerning political or religious discussions. They usually end badly, and I don't think its my right to comment since we try and avoid those discussions here.

03-30-2004, 04:40 PM	#83
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Now, Marian - The Islamists would say exactly the same thing, only it would be their religion in charge. Religion has no place in Government. Our founding fathers were wise in separating Church and State. That's the only way it can possibly work as long as there are people who are sure that their beliefs, superstitions, customs, etc., are Right and others are Wrong. It's the government's job to remain unbiased, only stepping in when one group is infringing on the rights of others. Personally, I have no interest in religion, but would never try to sway anyone from their beliefs. If it works for them, more power to them. I enjoy multi-cultural neighborhoods with many different belief systems co-existing in harmony. Makes for an interesting mix of restaurants. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-30-2004, 04:52 PM	#84
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	Sachs is kicking up political dust..... Addy agreed with me............ What the hell happened? If it is going to be like this, I'm out of here. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-30-2004, 05:05 PM	#85
Wizwad Only me... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 2,584	Even if you DID send all the senators to Mars, could you, even then, guarantee that thre was intelligent life there? Reichart, I agree with you too! As to the US feeling spending thousands on feeling sorry for people, how much of that is "We'll help you IF... you do as we tell you, believe what we tell you, and act like the good little puppies we want you to be?" /I didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the world's been turning... (apologies to Billy Joel) Mark ----------- Intel i7 12700K \| Aorus Z690 Pro \| Corsair DDR5 5600 32GB \| Asus Dual RTX3060ti 6GB v2 Mini OC \| Corsair RM850 Gold PSU \| 1TB NVMe M.2 WD Black SN850 \| 4TB Seagate BarraCuda HDD \| Corsair Airflow 5000D Case \| HP 32QHD 4K Monitor \| Windows 11 x64 Professional

03-30-2004, 05:21 PM	#86
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Gah! What happened??? When I left work we were joking about Jim-inions!!! You guys are impossible, don't you know when to call it quits? I don't even TRY to talk about anything political/religious/controversial anymore, I've given up (yes, and all that implies). I like an intelligent discussion as well as any of you but I'm sick of the same old rehashed arguments/propaganda/excuses/whatever and people who can't form their own opinion. Not that I don't believe that people shouldn't be allowed to say whatever they want, but there are too many different perspectives for them to EVER form one cohesive viewpoint, and people need to realize that... This is getting too long, and it's already not what I want to say... There is WAY to much to talk about to even hope to come close to explaining it/ourselves fully... Anyone trying to summarize their position on a topic like this one will never be able to cover all their bases, especially not in a setting like this and especially when they're not fully informed, which, believe it or not, NONE of us are (FOX, ABC, NBC, BBC, etc don't count people). I (as in me, myself and) don't think this is the place for this discussion. I feel like a insert derogatory name of your choice here for saying that, and I know I did a poor job of it at that, but I've never been good at writing things I really want to say, so I'll call it good enough and wait... Edit: Morgan, should this been moved into some kind of "smokey back room" thread where stuff like this can be "freely" talked about? Also, just so everyone knows, Reichart posted while I was in mid-stealth-edit, at the point of his reply the only thing I had posted was the first line at the top of this post... I don't watch commercials. Last edited by drfish; 03-30-2004 at 05:54 PM.

03-30-2004, 05:22 PM	#87
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	Quit!?!? If you had a flag...I would, er, burn it just to show you we are not quiters. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-30-2004, 03:02 PM	#81
klyntun Guest Posts: n/a	Dang! Politics and religion in the same thread. Good job, Marian. I'm calling my Senator (no, wait, he's on Mars).

03-30-2004, 03:31 PM	#82
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	He and Eydasi are having a go at us.

03-30-2004, 05:55 PM	#88
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Of course Jim you are right, I do not believe in mixing government and religion, I believe in the separation of church and state; yes, it does not, nor will it ever work, in today’s World. I know we can not give up on governing our own countries, Man has come a long way since the days of the caveman and he will do a lot more before the return of Christ. It does not matter that any one believes this, it still will happen. You can even have no beliefs at all, and the God I believe in, is slow to anger, but Man has turned his face from his creator and God temper grows short … and Man can not endured without him. Islam is part of Christianity, they descend from the first son of Abraham, they will reunite with their sibling. End of Sermon. Just letting you know there still is hope, there can be peace, and there always will be love.

03-30-2004, 07:23 PM	#89
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Originally posted by Wizwad As to the US feeling spending thousands on feeling sorry for people, how much of that is "We'll help you IF... you do as we tell you, believe what we tell you, and act like the good little puppies we want you to be?" You're wrong about that, Mark. The preservation of local cultures is yet another of the things we agonize endlessly over. "Are you guys all set, now? Do you have everything you need for your Death-To-America Day celebration?" Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-30-2004, 08:08 PM	#90
klyntun Guest Posts: n/a	Whoee! Let the games begin! (or end, as I think this thread will soon be closed). I jumped in in the midst of things (into the fire, or the line of fire, so to speak), so perhaps I should have just kept my mouth shut (impossible, you say). No need to get riled, Reichart (handsome avatar, by the way) or Doc Fish. None of us has his or her finger on the button, none of us sets the policies or starts or stops the wars (read: atrocities). We're just Marine and Goldfish lovers (now there's a couple of perjoratives for you) that have a heck of a lot of opinions. Glad I could express mine, no matter how naieve or uninformed they are. I'm sure if I'm way off base, someone her will elucidate me (where's a lightbulb smilie when you need one?). I've had one after-work screwdriver, and probably shouldn't post when I'm tipsy, but hey, I hope we're all [still] friends here. This has actually seemed rather mild compared to some of the political diatribe I've seen flare up and smoulder and then go out on this forum. One thing it has done is pique my interest in Flags of the World. Can I put a picture of myself on a flag, then set it on fire? Flame on, ya'll (no offense Liath, but I like that better than y'all).

03-30-2004, 10:52 PM	#91
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	You know, this thread isn't so bad at all and doesn't need to be closed just yet. What I like best about it is that everyone is giving their own opinions with hardly any flaming involved. Patrick

03-31-2004, 12:37 AM	#92
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	So, anybody want a new avatar? Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

03-31-2004, 12:47 AM	#93
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	Ha, ha - TT to the rescue with some comic relief Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-31-2004, 04:43 AM	#94
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Hey, did moving this thread effect post count for anyone? I normally don't even pay attention to it, but I remember passing 666 a day or two ago and I was well into the mid 670s... Now I'm back to 670 (well, 668 before I posted a couple things this morning)? I don't care much, but what's up? Edit: I guess my minions humor attempt was a failed one... I was going to throw everyone off by saying that Jennifer noticed Reichart's avatar yesterday and called him "pretty sexy." ...oops... I don't watch commercials.

03-31-2004, 05:12 AM	#95
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	A thought on the flags of nations undergoing political change, if I was a citizen of one theses countries, I would vote for a flag re-design. When a symbol becomes associated with anything, be it good or bad, then in people’s minds it is always associated with it. Think of certain symbols, the swastika, the cross, the flag of the confederacy of the US, the fish, the Star of David, all of these immediately bring to mind a religious, a race of people, a government.. You understand my meaning and you will never be able to think of anything else associated with that symbol or that flag.

03-31-2004, 05:47 AM	#96
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Most countries flags had already been around for quite some time when such a political problem came up. In some cases there have been changes made, Romania is a good example with their removal of the communist arms, following the fall of the Ceaucescu regime (in '89, was it?) How about if everybody put a picture of J. Christ Almighty on their flag? After all that's the only solution, right? I just have to ask if Buddhism too is part of Christianity? Or Hinduism? Doc, ...Jennifer on Reichart, – now that's humor! Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

03-31-2004, 06:54 AM	#97
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Sorry for my remark of earlier, TT. It was way off subject and I really would like to just let that one lie, if you don't mind. But to the subject of flag re-design, the US flag has undergone many changes whenever we would add a new state.

03-31-2004, 07:36 AM	#98
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	OK, cool with me. I like the original thirteen-state version with the stars in a circle. /Tiny Roundabout Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

03-31-2004, 07:40 AM	#99
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Heh... That's the one my dad currently flies... I don't watch commercials.

03-31-2004, 09:54 AM	#100
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Tiny, In response to your comment about the different religions. No, they are all different on the basic premise. Thats about as far as I will go concerning political or religious discussions. They usually end badly, and I don't think its my right to comment since we try and avoid those discussions here. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection