Marine Aquarium 3 Rumors and Speculation

[drfish]

Originally posted by Tiny Turtle:

...it would look about as relistic as if the lionfish had Homer Simpson's face...  

You know that game is getting sequel?

[Jav400]

Tiny,

I disagree. After all, the Mandarin Goby or a cuttlefish isn't your usual inclusion either.

But don't you think that choice should be left to Jim?

[nicksteel]

I still feel a lot of people have an interest in creatures. Given that we appreciate MA, Sharks, DA, etc for the high quality of the fish and settings, notice how many people responded to the starfish in MA and the crab in DA. There are many aquarium screensavers, many fish, few well done creatures. I seem to watch the crab in DA more than the fish.

[Jav400]

Thats what this is for. I'm still hopeing for the zebra moray. Jim said years ago he would try to include one for me. That one on the creatures list is actually one from my own aquarium long ago.

[nicksteel]

Originally posted by Jav400:

Thats what this is for. I'm still hopeing for the zebra moray. Jim said years ago he would try to include one for me. That one on the creatures list is actually one from my own aquarium long ago.  

I know. I was just stressing the general appeal of creatures.

[Jav400]

And I agree. I think you are doing the exact right thing nick. Thats what the page is for, if you find any photos you want to submit for consideration no matter what they are email them to me and I will add them to the page.

[Jim Sachs]

Tiny is right - what I include in the Aquarium is limited by a "weirdness factor". My wife and I were in an aquarium store yesterday when she spotted a very strange green fish that looked like a ragged piece of floating seaweed. The first thing she said was that I could never include something like that in the Aquarium because people just wouldn't believe it.

[Tiny Turtle]

I am not contesting the existance of that page, nor do I believe there shouldn't be a Mandarin goby or a cuttlefish (though the latter is far from the top of my wishlist).

As for the originality quaestion, you're missing the point. In real life you don't need to question if it's real or not. Unless you're seeing dinosaurs like in Jurassic Park or something like that, you don't have to think it's impossible. If you can see it it's real. In a SS like this nothing is impossible. Fish could start swimming backwards, morph into a different species or whatnot. If Jim was to create a creature that looked or behaved supernaturally (even if it actually was realistic) the illusion of reality would be lost as people would think it was made up. We had this discussion a long while back when there was talk aboutthe small octopus which mimicked other animals as a defense strategy and if I recall correctly Jim said somethng about if he made a computer generated sky, the clouds absolutely couldn't remind you of anything (though real clouds sometimes do) as everybody would think it was made like that intentionally.

Tiny Realism First

P.S.
Just to make sure here: The level of "supernaturalness" I'm talking of isn't along the lines of cuttlefish, gobys or starfish. Very few people see starfish and immediately say "that creature can't be for real". Having a octopus mimick a crab or a flounder would do that just like some of those scorpionfish which look exactly like a rock. People would just think Jim had put it in as a joke regardless of that the real thing can blend in almost perfectly.

Edit: Looks like Jim beat me to it.

[nicksteel]

All I meant was that creatures are appreciated as much, or more, as fish by some of us. The starfish added more to MA than any single fish. The crab added more to DA than any single fish. Both served to give "personality" to the tanks.

Aquariums and nature involve much more than fish and the coexisting creatures are often more interesting to look at. I didn't mean to add "freaks" to the tanks, just proper non-fish entities.

I still say that there are many virtual aquariums, few decent critters. Adding creatures would definitely appeal to some potential purchasers (as well as being very welcomed by present ones).

[drfish]

Originally posted by Tiny Turtle:

Fish could start swimming backwards, morph into a different species or whatnot.  

Oh cool, an Escher aquarium! I want!

Edit: A cuttlefish is enough material to be the subject of it's own screen saver. You wouldn't just be talking about programing interesting behavior, you'd have to give it some kind of AI, those little guys are smart. I was pretty amazed by how they hunted together when I saw a couple in Belize.

[Jav400]

Tiny,

I can go along with the realism idea, but, what I was saying was you were telling someone that something probably wouldn't be included when we haven't even seen a photo of it yet or how it acts. Not to mention that what goes in and what doesn't is Jim's call.

I would hope that the reaction would be "sounds cool", lets see one and give Jim the option.

[Tiny Turtle]

Originally posted by NickSteel:

All I meant was that creatures are appreciated as much, or more, as fish by some of us. The starfish added more to MA than any single fish. The crab added more to DA than any single fish. Both served to give "personality" to the tanks.  

That's fine, I have no problem with that. What I object to is the thought that really odd (and by odd I mean stuff WAY more obscure than a starfish) creatures automatically make for a cooler tank - it doesn't. A well-made shrimp will look so much better in the SS than a just as well-made praying mantis shrimp.

Oh, and I'd take a tank full of Yellow Tangs over one full of starfish any day of the week - the starfish is a highlight touch - not a standalone.

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

. . . what I include in the Aquarium is limited by a "weirdness factor". . .  

Mike,
Of course it's Jim's call. Since it isn't "cool" for me as a possible future SS inclusion, I have no intent of saying so.

Personally I think it won't be included as it is a bit too "weird" and also there are only so many hours in Jim's days and there's quite a bit of stuff to do there.

[Surferminn]

My 2 cents. I been watching this little Mandarin Goby and am just amazed at what a complicated design it is especially the way it moves and the way it uses it's fins. It seems almost to be treading water constantly with the side fins. Here's a video of it with the mast (dorsal fin) up and then down, of more particular interest and note was the breathing gills at the shoulder which you can see them opening and closing here. I wouldn't blame Jim if he didn't include Goby in his tank as it seems it would be a lot of work. I don't think it would look too much out of place as there were a whole bunch of "regular" fishes in this tank with this Goby, but it certainly is distinguished.

PS. For some reason your link went wonky minn and I fixed it, Jav.


edit - Thanks Michael - See, told ya!

[Jav400]

The Mandarin is on the special creatures list. That one is being planned for a creature pack.

PS. Nice shot by the way.

[Jim Sachs]

Minn - Great video. If anyone else has a link to videos of this quality showing the behavior of any planned critters, please post them.

[Surferminn]

Where's the "planned critters" list so I can keep an eye out...

[Jav400]

Minnie,

I edited your earlier post and made a note. For some reason the link went haywire and wasn't there.

As for a list, officially there isn't one other than in Jim's head. The basic list so far, which could change is as follows:

The more difficult fish include a Mandarin Gobi, Pufferfish, Cleaner Wrasse, and Lionfish. The invertebrates include a Starfish, Banded Coral Shrimp, Sea Anemone w/ Clownfish, Zebra Moray Eel, Jellyfish, Crab, Lobster, Shark, Nudibranchs (sea slugs), and finally an Octopus.

[Jim Sachs]

Tentative list (will be reduced to 20):
Seahorse
Squid (Cuttlefish)
Sea Slug (nudibranch)
Crab
Hermit Crab
Coral Shrimp
Lobster
Eel
Shark
Bat ray
Flounder
Dogfish
Moorish Idol
Horseshoe crab
Cardinal fish
Mandarin Goby
Blue or Green Chromis
Puffer fish
Spanish Hogfish
Asfur Angel
Batfish
Harlequin Tuskfish
Lemonpeel Angel
Saddleback Butterflyfish
Sea Apple
Sea Urchin
Octopus
Chambered Nautilus
Jellyfish
Sea Turtle

[Jav400]

Thanks Jim.

OH WOW!!!! If thats a Tierra Bat like I had before and requested I may just faint dead away for joy. That fish is awesome. Before when it was discussed I know the routines to get the fins moving properly were a major hinderance.

[Jim Sachs]

Yeah, but compared to how hard everything else I have to do is, those fins are trivial now