Wishlist for Marine Aquarium 3 and Future - Page 65

schneb · 10-04-2005, 04:34 PM

Hey! You know about Pet World! Yes, they have their backs totally coral and rocked out. I love going there with my kids to look around. I know how they keep their frame rates so high--problem is that their hardware is high maintenance.

All good reasons (frame rate and silhouette) to have the solid background, but there is still no choice for those of us who do not use this feature or have the fast video cards. I want my aquarium (bought a 20" Dell just for this purpose) to look like a full coral wall with an aquarium light 24 hours a day. If anyone wants to use MA as-is. They can. But why should that limit my choice?

I do not want to keep harping on this, so I will drop it for now. It is a wishlist, and I am just letting you know my mind on the matter.

Jim Sachs · 10-04-2005, 04:45 PM

Pet World is the closest pet shop to me with saltwater tanks. It's where I did most of the research (staring at fish) for the Aquarium five years ago.

schneb · 10-04-2005, 05:03 PM

I found a way to satisfy my desire--temporarily. On the Mac, under Universal Access, I turned on Zoom. I then zoomed to a certain factor then went to my screensaver hot corner. I now have almost a wall of coral with fish that are almost to size. They still run very smoothly on a 800mhz Mac.

Jim Sachs · 10-04-2005, 05:07 PM

Glad that worked for you.

patscarr · 10-06-2005, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

The version with the 3D background is still several months off.

Wow! I can't believe you all just let this slip by without commenting on it! This is the closest Jim has ever come to giving a release date! Notice it says several months and not several years! Several months could mean less than 1 year! Or two years, tops! If it were more than two years, he would have said several years! Wow! I'm so psyched! Woohoo!

drfish · 10-06-2005, 08:16 AM

You're a riot!

feldon34 · 10-06-2005, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by patscarr:

Wow! I can't believe you all just let this slip by without commenting on it! This is the closest Jim has ever come to giving a release date! Notice it says several months and not several years! Several months could mean less than 1 year! Or two years, tops! If it were more than two years, he would have said several years! Wow! I'm so psyched! Woohoo!

I chose not to take the bait this time around.

IF Jim understood shaders and IF Jim understood how to implement them in DX8 and IF all of the coral and creatures were available for Jim to photograph under ideal conditions THEN the 3D background would be 'several months away'.

johnblommers · 10-06-2005, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by feldon29:

... and IF Jim understood how to implement them in DX8 ....

Oh good, Jim S. does not know the proprietary Direct X 8. Phew!

For a minute there I thought he would go out of his way to implement in proprietary DX8 and limit the product to one platform rather than code in OpenGL and automatically support Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X.

Heart be still, it's going to be all right

Jim Sachs · 10-07-2005, 12:25 AM

OpenGL is Jim O'Connor's arena. I'm strictly DX. The regular version of the Aquarium is in DX6, the PlusPack version is in DX8. Shaders are a whole 'nuther animal.

toddfish · 10-10-2005, 12:13 PM

Out of curiosity, why did you choose to implement both DirectX AND openGL? why wouldn't you just do OpenGL since it works on all platforms?

Tiny Turtle · 10-11-2005, 01:18 AM

I think I can answer that one. (And Jim can fill in should I've gotten it wrong)

Mr. Sachs knows DX (sans shaders then). Thus he created his wonderful aquarium using DX. Later (several years) it was decided to create a Mac version. Since DX doesn't run on Macs, a OpenGL version was developed by Mr. O'Connor and his team. Mr. Sachs still focus his attention on DX and therefore chose not to abandon it to go all in on OpenGL.

/Tiny Both

Jim Sachs · 10-11-2005, 10:15 AM

All true. I had hoped that OpenGL had matured in the 5 years since I wrote the Aquarium, but I just downloaded a few demos, and most don't work properly on my out-of-the-box HP machine. The unfortunate fact of life with open technologies is that there are no "police" to enforce standards. With Microsoft strongarming all video card manufacturers to toe the line regarding DirectX, I am guaranteed that my application will run properly on a wide range of machines. This is vital when customer-service can make or break a company.

So it looks like DirectX for the foreseeable future.

On another subject: The Clearfin Lionfish is nearly done.

ESHIREY · 10-11-2005, 11:07 AM

AWESOME. Can't wait to see him. Or her.

johnblommers · 10-11-2005, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

All true. I had hoped that OpenGL had matured in the 5 years since I wrote the Aquarium, but I just downloaded a few demos, and most don't work properly on my out-of-the-box HP machine. The unfortunate fact of life with open technologies is that there are no "police" to enforce standards. With Microsoft strongarming all video card manufacturers to toe the line regarding DirectX, I am guaranteed that my application will run properly on a wide range of machines. This is vital when customer-service can make or break a company.

Jim, thanks for such a clear, sensible, practical explanation about why you choose DX.

OpenGL on the Mac benefits from Apple's strong-arming as well, so the Mac version of the screen saver benefits accordingly on that platform. I don't presume to speak for Jim O'Conner, who translates from DX to OpenGL, a skill that would be quite marketable I would think.

But the extra cost of paying Jim O. to do DX to OpenGL seems to be worth it to you guys. MA runs well on every Macintosh I have owned, from a 500Mhz G3 Powerbook to my dual CPU 2Ghz G5.

One of these days I have got to try out MA on Linux using Cedega, WINE, et al - make you a proud daddy Jim

memilm · 10-12-2005, 02:32 AM

Jim, could you tell us if The Clearfin Lionfish will replace the actual linfish or will be another fish to select.

To johnblommers:
It will be nice when you can inform us about the whole installations and commandlines you need to start MA2 under linux...

Jav400 · 10-12-2005, 06:44 AM

The clearfin should be an added fish selection.

ESHIREY · 10-12-2005, 07:35 AM

That's what I was going to say. I hope we get them soon.

feldon34 · 10-12-2005, 09:13 AM

Updated the fansite.

johnblommers · 10-12-2005, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by memilm:

To johnblommers:
It will be nice when you can inform us about the whole installations and commandlines you need to start MA2 under linux...

So I need to proceed cautiously here. I have the utmost respect for the copyrights and licensing agreements regarding Marine Aquarium. As an author myself, I understand these issues are important to the content creator. And I think the RIAA and MPAA go too far, since they're acting like racketeers.

So can Jim Sachs give any indication about how he views publishing information about making MA et al work under Linux, assuming it can be done at all? The last thing I want to see is for MA to actually work on only selected Linux distros with specific versions of OpenGL and all. That's a lot of variables to give Jim and company more grey hair

Jim Sachs · 10-12-2005, 12:10 PM

If it can be made to work perfectly, so that it is indistinguishable from the way it would look running in Windows, and as long as the Key Code has not been disabled, I have no problem.

I don't really see how this would be possible, since the whole thing is bound so tightly to DirectX. Linux would have to intercept every one of those calls and redirect them to some other code which does exactly the same thing.

10-04-2005, 04:45 PM	#1282
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	Pet World is the closest pet shop to me with saltwater tanks. It's where I did most of the research (staring at fish) for the Aquarium five years ago. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-04-2005, 05:07 PM	#1284
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	Glad that worked for you. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-06-2005, 08:13 AM	#1285
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: The version with the 3D background is still several months off. Wow! I can't believe you all just let this slip by without commenting on it! This is the closest Jim has ever come to giving a release date! Notice it says several months and not several years! Several months could mean less than 1 year! Or two years, tops! If it were more than two years, he would have said several years! Wow! I'm so psyched! Woohoo! Patrick

10-06-2005, 08:16 AM	#1286
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	You're a riot! I don't watch commercials.

10-06-2005, 10:11 PM	#1287
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by patscarr: Wow! I can't believe you all just let this slip by without commenting on it! This is the closest Jim has ever come to giving a release date! Notice it says several months and not several years! Several months could mean less than 1 year! Or two years, tops! If it were more than two years, he would have said several years! Wow! I'm so psyched! Woohoo! I chose not to take the bait this time around. IF Jim understood shaders and IF Jim understood how to implement them in DX8 and IF all of the coral and creatures were available for Jim to photograph under ideal conditions THEN the 3D background would be 'several months away'. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-04-2005, 04:34 PM	#1281
schneb Registered Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Redlands, CA Posts: 51	Hey! You know about Pet World! Yes, they have their backs totally coral and rocked out. I love going there with my kids to look around. I know how they keep their frame rates so high--problem is that their hardware is high maintenance. All good reasons (frame rate and silhouette) to have the solid background, but there is still no choice for those of us who do not use this feature or have the fast video cards. I want my aquarium (bought a 20" Dell just for this purpose) to look like a full coral wall with an aquarium light 24 hours a day. If anyone wants to use MA as-is. They can. But why should that limit my choice? I do not want to keep harping on this, so I will drop it for now. It is a wishlist, and I am just letting you know my mind on the matter.

10-04-2005, 05:03 PM	#1283
schneb Registered Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Redlands, CA Posts: 51	I found a way to satisfy my desire--temporarily. On the Mac, under Universal Access, I turned on Zoom. I then zoomed to a certain factor then went to my screensaver hot corner. I now have almost a wall of coral with fish that are almost to size. They still run very smoothly on a 800mhz Mac.

10-06-2005, 10:18 PM	#1288
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	Whew! Originally posted by feldon29: ... and IF Jim understood how to implement them in DX8 .... Oh good, Jim S. does not know the proprietary Direct X 8. Phew! For a minute there I thought he would go out of his way to implement in proprietary DX8 and limit the product to one platform rather than code in OpenGL and automatically support Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X. Heart be still, it's going to be all right Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

10-07-2005, 12:25 AM	#1289
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	OpenGL is Jim O'Connor's arena. I'm strictly DX. The regular version of the Aquarium is in DX6, the PlusPack version is in DX8. Shaders are a whole 'nuther animal. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-10-2005, 12:13 PM	#1290
toddfish Registered Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5	Out of curiosity, why did you choose to implement both DirectX AND openGL? why wouldn't you just do OpenGL since it works on all platforms?

10-11-2005, 01:18 AM	#1291
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	I think I can answer that one. (And Jim can fill in should I've gotten it wrong) Mr. Sachs knows DX (sans shaders then). Thus he created his wonderful aquarium using DX. Later (several years) it was decided to create a Mac version. Since DX doesn't run on Macs, a OpenGL version was developed by Mr. O'Connor and his team. Mr. Sachs still focus his attention on DX and therefore chose not to abandon it to go all in on OpenGL. /Tiny Both Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

10-11-2005, 10:15 AM	#1292
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	All true. I had hoped that OpenGL had matured in the 5 years since I wrote the Aquarium, but I just downloaded a few demos, and most don't work properly on my out-of-the-box HP machine. The unfortunate fact of life with open technologies is that there are no "police" to enforce standards. With Microsoft strongarming all video card manufacturers to toe the line regarding DirectX, I am guaranteed that my application will run properly on a wide range of machines. This is vital when customer-service can make or break a company. So it looks like DirectX for the foreseeable future. On another subject: The Clearfin Lionfish is nearly done. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-11-2005, 11:07 AM	#1293
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	AWESOME. Can't wait to see him. Or her. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

10-11-2005, 12:30 PM	#1294
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: All true. I had hoped that OpenGL had matured in the 5 years since I wrote the Aquarium, but I just downloaded a few demos, and most don't work properly on my out-of-the-box HP machine. The unfortunate fact of life with open technologies is that there are no "police" to enforce standards. With Microsoft strongarming all video card manufacturers to toe the line regarding DirectX, I am guaranteed that my application will run properly on a wide range of machines. This is vital when customer-service can make or break a company. Jim, thanks for such a clear, sensible, practical explanation about why you choose DX. OpenGL on the Mac benefits from Apple's strong-arming as well, so the Mac version of the screen saver benefits accordingly on that platform. I don't presume to speak for Jim O'Conner, who translates from DX to OpenGL, a skill that would be quite marketable I would think. But the extra cost of paying Jim O. to do DX to OpenGL seems to be worth it to you guys. MA runs well on every Macintosh I have owned, from a 500Mhz G3 Powerbook to my dual CPU 2Ghz G5. One of these days I have got to try out MA on Linux using Cedega, WINE, et al - make you a proud daddy Jim Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

10-12-2005, 02:32 AM	#1295
memilm Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: germany Posts: 259	Jim, could you tell us if The Clearfin Lionfish will replace the actual linfish or will be another fish to select. To johnblommers: It will be nice when you can inform us about the whole installations and commandlines you need to start MA2 under linux...

10-12-2005, 06:44 AM	#1296
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	The clearfin should be an added fish selection. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-12-2005, 07:35 AM	#1297
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	That's what I was going to say. I hope we get them soon. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

10-12-2005, 09:13 AM	#1298
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Updated the fansite. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-12-2005, 12:02 PM	#1299
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	Originally posted by memilm: To johnblommers: It will be nice when you can inform us about the whole installations and commandlines you need to start MA2 under linux... So I need to proceed cautiously here. I have the utmost respect for the copyrights and licensing agreements regarding Marine Aquarium. As an author myself, I understand these issues are important to the content creator. And I think the RIAA and MPAA go too far, since they're acting like racketeers. So can Jim Sachs give any indication about how he views publishing information about making MA et al work under Linux, assuming it can be done at all? The last thing I want to see is for MA to actually work on only selected Linux distros with specific versions of OpenGL and all. That's a lot of variables to give Jim and company more grey hair Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

10-12-2005, 12:10 PM	#1300
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,788	If it can be made to work perfectly, so that it is indistinguishable from the way it would look running in Windows, and as long as the Key Code has not been disabled, I have no problem. I don't really see how this would be possible, since the whole thing is bound so tightly to DirectX. Linux would have to intercept every one of those calls and redirect them to some other code which does exactly the same thing. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium