Wishlist for Marine Aquarium 3 and Future - Page 67

Jim Sachs · 11-16-2005, 10:03 AM

Encore asked for two more fish to boost hard-copy sales through the holidays.

No, there won't be any more fish before the 3D background. In fact, I have to re-do all the existing fish using an entirely different modeling scheme.

Morgan asked for the Achilles Tang. I decided on the Clearfin Lionfish because I could use my basic model for the Volitans Lionfish, with its working mouth and gills.

Tiny Turtle · 11-16-2005, 01:35 PM

Bummer. One – nothing to Yodelking (we speculated a bit on the ond fish in a 3D tank).

/Tiny Nothing

toddfish · 11-19-2005, 04:51 PM

hey jim,

I'm very excited to see the new fish swimming in my tank! What do you mean by a 3-D background? does this mean the camera will be moving through the tank with changing perspectives? or does mean that you will use some 3D program to create the still image of the aquarium?

also, why do you have to redo the fish models? they look great the way there are.

Tiny Turtle · 11-19-2005, 05:23 PM

Todd,
As of right now the fish are made up of 3D polygons (107 of them I believe except for the lionfish) and the background is a 2D (i.e. normal) image, cut up to enable fish to swim behind and in front of parts of it. If you press "W" while the program is running (and have "Exit on mouse movement" not selected) you will see how the background is set up.

The problem with this is that collision detection is difficult and the 3D objects (the fish and starfish) cannot interact or climb on the 2D background.

Jim intends to recreate the entire background as 3D objects made up of lots of polygons. The 3D version will also be twice as wide as the current one. This means the camera will (if you want it to) pan left and right and thus enable you to side the coral from slightly different angles. Folloing the 3D background will hopefully be a few "creature packs" with additions to the aquarium in form of special animals like a cleaner shrimp which then can climb on the coral or a Mandarin goby which can dig around in the gravel.

Hope this helps

/Tiny Breakdown

P.S.
Made a typo in the post above – it's supposed to read "...the old fish in the 3D tank)."

johnblommers · 11-19-2005, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Tiny Turtle:

...Jim intends to recreate the entire background as 3D objects made up of lots of polygons. The 3D version will also be twice as wide as the current one. This means the camera will (if you want it to) pan left and right and thus enable you to side the coral from slightly different angles. Folloing the 3D background will hopefully be a few "creature packs" with additions to the aquarium in form of special animals like a cleaner shrimp which then can climb on the coral or a Mandarin goby which can dig around in the gravel

My sense is that constructing a navigable 3D aquarium will be a fun challenge for Jim S. Given that Jim S. is such a perfectionist, it is going to look at least 2x better than anything he's done before.

There IS a free 3D aquarium out there and it's called Fish and its available for Mac OS X

It's not as nice as Jim S's work but it's fun. According to the author:

by Oriol Ferrer Mesià
oriol@oriol.mine.nu

http://oriol.mine.nu

This is my Multimedia Engineering Graduation Project at the Audiovisual
Technologies Department of La Salle School of Engineering, and also my very first contact with Cocoa.

The Shark fish model and animations are taken from the "Atlantis" example included in Xcode. Other models are taken form http://www.toucan.co.jp/ and then made lowpoly.
The Fish icon is taken from xFish, an icon pack made by PixelJerk.

Many thanks to:
my love,
my parents,
my friends,
my cat,
Pixeljerk for the icon,
Marc Monguió for his interesting ideas,
and Apple.

So he's a cat lover too, so he MUST be good people!

Tiny Turtle · 11-19-2005, 07:26 PM

My only comment to that is that Oriol has a LARGE aquarium...

/Tiny Likes Tiny Tanks

feldon34 · 11-20-2005, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by toddfish:

hey jim,

I'm very excited to see the new fish swimming in my tank! What do you mean by a 3-D background? does this mean the camera will be moving through the tank with changing perspectives?

The current background is a composite of several photos. It is 2D in nature, even though the swim seemingly swim in front of and behind it.

The 3D background will look very similar to how it looks now, but it will be fully created in 3D so that crabs and other creatures can crawl over it and hide inside of rocks, etc.

The camera will pan left and right, but you will not be able to change depth or "fly through".

also, why do you have to redo the fish models? they look great the way there are.

The models don't allow the fish to dart off or swim vertically, plus the fish don't "breathe".

Jim Sachs · 11-20-2005, 02:08 PM

One reason the models need to be re-done is the rapid improvement in monitor resolutions. When I first created the Aquarium, most people ran their monitors at about 800x600, so I made the background at a hi-res 1024x768 - unheard of as a background for a 3D program. At that res, many things are not very noticeable, like the fact that the side fins of the fish are separate objects which are not actually attached to the fish. Today's hi-res screens show this quite clearly. The new fish will be all one mesh, so the skin will stretch over the fin joints as they move. Same goes for the eyes.

drfish · 11-21-2005, 04:39 AM

So for the double wide background for high res monitors you're talking what for the new one? 3200x1200? 4096x1536?

Of course Mac fans won't be happy unless you do something based on 2560x1600 for the 30" cinema display...

Jim Sachs · 11-21-2005, 10:23 AM

Probably something like 3200x1200.

drfish · 11-21-2005, 10:43 AM

That should work out really well, all the 1920x1200 folks out there (like yourself come to think of it) should be very pleased and that's by far the most common extreme resolution nowadays.

Tiny Turtle · 11-21-2005, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by drfish:

. . . the most common extreme resolution . . .

Lovely choice of words there, CWW...

drfish · 11-21-2005, 05:58 PM

I could think of none better.

clifdene · 12-05-2005, 12:50 PM

How does one become a beta tester?
Clifdene

Jav400 · 12-05-2005, 01:10 PM

Right now there are no more Beta testers required, but thanks for your interest.

Tonys Fishtank · 12-14-2005, 07:20 AM

Hi all

Has anyone worked out how frequently the random fish change.

Mine don't seem to change hardly at all.

Do they only change each time the screensaver comes on? or will the fish change periodically if the screensaver is left on??

Hope someone can help

Cheers
Tony

Jav400 · 12-14-2005, 07:27 AM

Random fish settings will change fish when the screensaver is restarted.

iMark · 12-14-2005, 07:53 AM

Have the new fish been released yet?

feldon34 · 12-14-2005, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Tonys Fishtank:

Hi all

Has anyone worked out how frequently the random fish change.

Mine don't seem to change hardly at all.

Do they only change each time the screensaver comes on? or will the fish change periodically if the screensaver is left on??

Hope someone can help

Cheers
Tony

A lot of people have asked to have the fish change out after a designated time frame (5-10 minutes) but this feature has yet to appear in the Aquarium. The quickest way to change out the fish is to press the SPACE bar twice.

Jim Sachs · 12-14-2005, 11:36 AM

Regarding the new version, Prolific is putting their efforts into getting the new Goldfish update out the door, then will turn their attention to MA.

11-16-2005, 10:03 AM	#1321
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Encore asked for two more fish to boost hard-copy sales through the holidays. No, there won't be any more fish before the 3D background. In fact, I have to re-do all the existing fish using an entirely different modeling scheme. Morgan asked for the Achilles Tang. I decided on the Clearfin Lionfish because I could use my basic model for the Volitans Lionfish, with its working mouth and gills. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium Last edited by Jim Sachs; 11-16-2005 at 09:57 PM.

11-16-2005, 01:35 PM	#1322
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Bummer. One – nothing to Yodelking (we speculated a bit on the ond fish in a 3D tank). /Tiny Nothing Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

11-19-2005, 05:23 PM	#1324
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Todd, As of right now the fish are made up of 3D polygons (107 of them I believe except for the lionfish) and the background is a 2D (i.e. normal) image, cut up to enable fish to swim behind and in front of parts of it. If you press "W" while the program is running (and have "Exit on mouse movement" not selected) you will see how the background is set up. The problem with this is that collision detection is difficult and the 3D objects (the fish and starfish) cannot interact or climb on the 2D background. Jim intends to recreate the entire background as 3D objects made up of lots of polygons. The 3D version will also be twice as wide as the current one. This means the camera will (if you want it to) pan left and right and thus enable you to side the coral from slightly different angles. Folloing the 3D background will hopefully be a few "creature packs" with additions to the aquarium in form of special animals like a cleaner shrimp which then can climb on the coral or a Mandarin goby which can dig around in the gravel. Hope this helps /Tiny Breakdown P.S. Made a typo in the post above – it's supposed to read "...the old fish in the 3D tank)." Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

11-19-2005, 07:26 PM	#1326
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	My only comment to that is that Oriol has a LARGE aquarium... /Tiny Likes Tiny Tanks Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

11-20-2005, 10:29 AM	#1327
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by toddfish: hey jim, I'm very excited to see the new fish swimming in my tank! What do you mean by a 3-D background? does this mean the camera will be moving through the tank with changing perspectives? The current background is a composite of several photos. It is 2D in nature, even though the swim seemingly swim in front of and behind it. The 3D background will look very similar to how it looks now, but it will be fully created in 3D so that crabs and other creatures can crawl over it and hide inside of rocks, etc. The camera will pan left and right, but you will not be able to change depth or "fly through". also, why do you have to redo the fish models? they look great the way there are. The models don't allow the fish to dart off or swim vertically, plus the fish don't "breathe". "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-19-2005, 04:51 PM	#1323
toddfish Registered Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5	hey jim, I'm very excited to see the new fish swimming in my tank! What do you mean by a 3-D background? does this mean the camera will be moving through the tank with changing perspectives? or does mean that you will use some 3D program to create the still image of the aquarium? also, why do you have to redo the fish models? they look great the way there are.

11-20-2005, 02:08 PM	#1328
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	One reason the models need to be re-done is the rapid improvement in monitor resolutions. When I first created the Aquarium, most people ran their monitors at about 800x600, so I made the background at a hi-res 1024x768 - unheard of as a background for a 3D program. At that res, many things are not very noticeable, like the fact that the side fins of the fish are separate objects which are not actually attached to the fish. Today's hi-res screens show this quite clearly. The new fish will be all one mesh, so the skin will stretch over the fin joints as they move. Same goes for the eyes. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-21-2005, 04:39 AM	#1329
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	So for the double wide background for high res monitors you're talking what for the new one? 3200x1200? 4096x1536? Of course Mac fans won't be happy unless you do something based on 2560x1600 for the 30" cinema display... I don't watch commercials.

11-21-2005, 10:23 AM	#1330
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Probably something like 3200x1200. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-21-2005, 10:43 AM	#1331
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	That should work out really well, all the 1920x1200 folks out there (like yourself come to think of it) should be very pleased and that's by far the most common extreme resolution nowadays. I don't watch commercials.

11-21-2005, 03:03 PM	#1332
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Originally posted by drfish: . . . the most common extreme resolution . . . Lovely choice of words there, CWW... Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

11-21-2005, 05:58 PM	#1333
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	I could think of none better. I don't watch commercials.

12-05-2005, 12:50 PM	#1334
clifdene Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: UK Posts: 168	How does one become a beta tester? Clifdene

12-05-2005, 01:10 PM	#1335
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Right now there are no more Beta testers required, but thanks for your interest. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

12-14-2005, 07:20 AM	#1336
Tonys Fishtank Registered Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sydney Australia/Cornwall UK Posts: 3	Random Effects Hi all Has anyone worked out how frequently the random fish change. Mine don't seem to change hardly at all. Do they only change each time the screensaver comes on? or will the fish change periodically if the screensaver is left on?? Hope someone can help Cheers Tony

12-14-2005, 07:27 AM	#1337
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Random fish settings will change fish when the screensaver is restarted. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

12-14-2005, 07:53 AM	#1338
iMark Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MIssouri Posts: 105	Have the new fish been released yet?

12-14-2005, 08:35 AM	#1339
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Tonys Fishtank: Hi all Has anyone worked out how frequently the random fish change. Mine don't seem to change hardly at all. Do they only change each time the screensaver comes on? or will the fish change periodically if the screensaver is left on?? Hope someone can help Cheers Tony A lot of people have asked to have the fish change out after a designated time frame (5-10 minutes) but this feature has yet to appear in the Aquarium. The quickest way to change out the fish is to press the SPACE bar twice. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

12-14-2005, 11:36 AM	#1340
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Regarding the new version, Prolific is putting their efforts into getting the new Goldfish update out the door, then will turn their attention to MA. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium