Wishlist for Marine Aquarium 3 and Future - Page 88

patscarr · 03-19-2010, 01:58 PM

pwaitzman · 03-21-2010, 06:04 AM

hello

i'm new to the forum but have been a huge ma fan since the beginning - i gladly purchased ma3 beta as soon as i found it available and love it.

i'm wondering if the distance to the back of the tank could be user adjustable - allowing the fish to swim farther into the background.

johnblommers · 03-21-2010, 12:46 PM

Welcome to the forum, pwaitzman. Our good Jim Sachs gets plenty of suggestions for MA3. I mean it started as a 2D still tank, has evolved to a 3D moving aquarium, and now people are asking for an ocean filled with turtle, seahorses, and so forth. It's a nice problem to have!

Jim Sachs · 03-21-2010, 01:28 PM

pwaltzman - Welcome to the Forum. Regarding your request - sorry, but that won't be possible. It took over a year to create the 3D background, and the positions are highly critical. If anything moves even a small amount, holes open up in the scenery from certain camera angles.

Ralph · 03-21-2010, 04:33 PM

One would get the same illusion if the fish size was determined by how close they were to the "front".. or one could mimic the effect by changing the transparency of the water. Making a fish semi disappear when in the back..
All major headaches to code I am sure..

harris · 03-21-2010, 09:07 PM

Jim,

A while ago there was a discussion about the intensity/strobe effect of the light reflections. Some people thought it was great as it is, and others thought it was too much. Personally, I thought it was perfect in MA2.

A suggestion would be to include a slider adjustment for this within the background color adjustment tab your working on now. What are your thoughts about this?

Jim Sachs · 03-21-2010, 10:18 PM

Ralph - Could you clarify what you mean by the size being determined by the distance from the camera? Because that's exactly what has always happened since MA1. The fish are 3D objects, so they get smaller as they recede from the camera. Here's a random shot of two fish at differing distances, showing a tremendous size difference.

Please let me know if this is not what you are talking about, because this has been mentioned so many times over the years that I really wonder what people expect to see.

Jav400 · 03-22-2010, 06:06 AM

Jim if you didn't move the coral, but made a distance adjustment where it just allowed greater depth in the open space above the coral where the fish got even smaller like above would that mess up anything?

Ralph · 03-22-2010, 06:31 AM

Jim.. yes that was what I was talking about.. Making the fish smaller as they recede from the camera... I was not aware this was already taking place

The process just looked very natural to me without being aware why.

Jav400 · 03-22-2010, 06:57 AM

Personally I'm not sure what the benefit would be, but maybe it could be done.

Overall what Jim does is like a magician. They entice you into watching one hand while the other one does what they want it too to fulfill and create the illusion.

That's what Jim does as well. The positioning and look of the tank is all illusion. Move one object, even slightly and it's ruined.

Overall I'm not sure what deepening the tank would accomplish. Basically there might be something there just because of the fact that farther away means smaller and less detail, which equals "easier" as far as slight of hand so to speak. The question's are -

1) Is there anything Jim wants to accomplish that would be made easier by doing it back there?

2) Is anything going to get broken by doing it?

JohnWho · 03-22-2010, 06:57 AM

Let's remember - it's called "Marine AQUARIUM", not "Marine Ocean".

Aquariums, at least the commercial, decorative type, aren't very deep. Certainly not deep enough for a fish to swim toward the back and disappear into the murky depths. While we can't see the back of MA3, visually it appears that there is about as much space between the back of the coral and the back of the aquarium as there is in the front. That being the case, I suspect that the size difference that we see between a fish in the front and then in the back is what the developer has determined through actual observation, or maybe slightly increased for effect.

When you add this to the "3D effect" of the panning viewpoint you get a reasonably realistic feeling of depth.

I give it two

, mainly because that's all the thumbs I've got.

Jav400 · 03-22-2010, 07:13 AM

Unless it's a custom tank, the most depth you usually see is 24 inches, in rare occasions on very large tanks it might go up to 30".

Jim Sachs · 03-22-2010, 08:39 AM

Jav and JohnWho are totally correct in their assessments - It's an aquarium 24 inches deep, and that's how far the fish can go.

cjmaddy · 03-22-2010, 09:00 AM

IMHO.... The very simple addition of a darker background is all that's required to give just that little extra impression of depth.

.... And we will very soon all have that option! ...

Tarkus · 03-23-2010, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

IMHO.... The very simple addition of a darker background is all that's required to give just that little extra impression of depth.

A mirrored background does that even better, though I'm not suggesting Jim add that.

spetro · 03-23-2010, 04:52 PM

I left 2.6 on my vista laptop. Love how night and day interacts.. Underwater backgrounds are tough because in the ocean the background just fades out. With tropical fish the scene is more direct then real life landscape, if that makes any sense. Just like the background of my puffer avatar.

I think the background is good now....maybe some higher gravel fading out away from the main scene, or taller swaying plants. If the starfish gets reintroduced....that would be great. I know it has to do with the light transition in the older version.

harris · 03-23-2010, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by harris:

Jim,

A while ago there was a discussion about the intensity/strobe effect of the light reflections. Some people thought it was great as it is, and others thought it was too much. Personally, I thought it was perfect in MA2.

A suggestion would be to include a slider adjustment for this within the background color adjustment tab your working on now. What are your thoughts about this?

What! not a single comment from Jim, or anyone else.

OK, I understand - silence is worth a thousand words.

I'll delete this post and the original suggestion in the morning.

Ralph · 03-23-2010, 08:47 PM

Pirates chest and other trinkets have been discussed years ago.. Jim was "strongly" opposed I seem to recall.

Jim Sachs · 03-23-2010, 09:13 PM

harris - Sorry, you are not being intentionally ignored, I just avoid this thread unless absolutely necessary. I'll see how much trouble it would be to change the lightplay intensity.

JohnWho - The treasure chest is in the Freshwater Aquarium. People involved with saltwater tanks are generally purists who don't want any toys in the tank. Things are a little looser in the freshwater community, and the bubbling tresure chest is almost a must-have.

Nicki · 03-23-2010, 09:27 PM

Actually I think I would like to see an option for slower gentler lightplay in the tank. Never thought about it until harris' suggestion but yes. It would be a nice new wrinkle and maybe help with the illusion of depth that has been discussed.

03-19-2010, 01:58 PM	#1741
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	Patrick

03-21-2010, 12:46 PM	#1743
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	Welcome to the forum, pwaitzman. Our good Jim Sachs gets plenty of suggestions for MA3. I mean it started as a 2D still tank, has evolved to a 3D moving aquarium, and now people are asking for an ocean filled with turtle, seahorses, and so forth. It's a nice problem to have! Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

03-21-2010, 01:28 PM	#1744
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	pwaltzman - Welcome to the Forum. Regarding your request - sorry, but that won't be possible. It took over a year to create the 3D background, and the positions are highly critical. If anything moves even a small amount, holes open up in the scenery from certain camera angles. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-22-2010, 06:06 AM	#1748
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Jim if you didn't move the coral, but made a distance adjustment where it just allowed greater depth in the open space above the coral where the fish got even smaller like above would that mess up anything? Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

03-22-2010, 06:57 AM	#1750
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Personally I'm not sure what the benefit would be, but maybe it could be done. Overall what Jim does is like a magician. They entice you into watching one hand while the other one does what they want it too to fulfill and create the illusion. That's what Jim does as well. The positioning and look of the tank is all illusion. Move one object, even slightly and it's ruined. Overall I'm not sure what deepening the tank would accomplish. Basically there might be something there just because of the fact that farther away means smaller and less detail, which equals "easier" as far as slight of hand so to speak. The question's are - 1) Is there anything Jim wants to accomplish that would be made easier by doing it back there? 2) Is anything going to get broken by doing it? Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

03-21-2010, 06:04 AM	#1742
pwaitzman Registered Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1	hello i'm new to the forum but have been a huge ma fan since the beginning - i gladly purchased ma3 beta as soon as i found it available and love it. i'm wondering if the distance to the back of the tank could be user adjustable - allowing the fish to swim farther into the background.

03-21-2010, 04:33 PM	#1745
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	One would get the same illusion if the fish size was determined by how close they were to the "front".. or one could mimic the effect by changing the transparency of the water. Making a fish semi disappear when in the back.. All major headaches to code I am sure..

03-21-2010, 09:07 PM	#1746
harris Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 122	Jim, A while ago there was a discussion about the intensity/strobe effect of the light reflections. Some people thought it was great as it is, and others thought it was too much. Personally, I thought it was perfect in MA2. A suggestion would be to include a slider adjustment for this within the background color adjustment tab your working on now. What are your thoughts about this?

03-22-2010, 06:31 AM	#1749
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	Jim.. yes that was what I was talking about.. Making the fish smaller as they recede from the camera... I was not aware this was already taking place The process just looked very natural to me without being aware why.

03-22-2010, 06:57 AM	#1751
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Let's remember - it's called "Marine AQUARIUM", not "Marine Ocean". Aquariums, at least the commercial, decorative type, aren't very deep. Certainly not deep enough for a fish to swim toward the back and disappear into the murky depths. While we can't see the back of MA3, visually it appears that there is about as much space between the back of the coral and the back of the aquarium as there is in the front. That being the case, I suspect that the size difference that we see between a fish in the front and then in the back is what the developer has determined through actual observation, or maybe slightly increased for effect. When you add this to the "3D effect" of the panning viewpoint you get a reasonably realistic feeling of depth. I give it two , mainly because that's all the thumbs I've got.

03-22-2010, 07:13 AM	#1752
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Unless it's a custom tank, the most depth you usually see is 24 inches, in rare occasions on very large tanks it might go up to 30". Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

03-22-2010, 08:39 AM	#1753
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Jav and JohnWho are totally correct in their assessments - It's an aquarium 24 inches deep, and that's how far the fish can go. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-22-2010, 09:00 AM	#1754
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	IMHO.... The very simple addition of a darker background is all that's required to give just that little extra impression of depth. .... And we will very soon all have that option! ...

03-23-2010, 01:07 AM	#1755
Tarkus Shark Bytes Join Date: May 2005 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 158	Originally posted by cjmaddy: IMHO.... The very simple addition of a darker background is all that's required to give just that little extra impression of depth. A mirrored background does that even better, though I'm not suggesting Jim add that.

03-23-2010, 04:52 PM	#1756
spetro Semper Paratus Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Georgia Mountains and Florida, USA Posts: 133	I left 2.6 on my vista laptop. Love how night and day interacts.. Underwater backgrounds are tough because in the ocean the background just fades out. With tropical fish the scene is more direct then real life landscape, if that makes any sense. Just like the background of my puffer avatar. I think the background is good now....maybe some higher gravel fading out away from the main scene, or taller swaying plants. If the starfish gets reintroduced....that would be great. I know it has to do with the light transition in the older version.

03-23-2010, 04:54 PM	#1757
harris Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 122	Originally posted by harris: Jim, A while ago there was a discussion about the intensity/strobe effect of the light reflections. Some people thought it was great as it is, and others thought it was too much. Personally, I thought it was perfect in MA2. A suggestion would be to include a slider adjustment for this within the background color adjustment tab your working on now. What are your thoughts about this? What! not a single comment from Jim, or anyone else. OK, I understand - silence is worth a thousand words. I'll delete this post and the original suggestion in the morning.

03-23-2010, 08:47 PM	#1758
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	Pirates chest and other trinkets have been discussed years ago.. Jim was "strongly" opposed I seem to recall.

03-23-2010, 09:13 PM	#1759
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	harris - Sorry, you are not being intentionally ignored, I just avoid this thread unless absolutely necessary. I'll see how much trouble it would be to change the lightplay intensity. JohnWho - The treasure chest is in the Freshwater Aquarium. People involved with saltwater tanks are generally purists who don't want any toys in the tank. Things are a little looser in the freshwater community, and the bubbling tresure chest is almost a must-have. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-23-2010, 09:27 PM	#1760
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	Actually I think I would like to see an option for slower gentler lightplay in the tank. Never thought about it until harris' suggestion but yes. It would be a nice new wrinkle and maybe help with the illusion of depth that has been discussed. Run you clever boy. And remember...