Marine Aquarium 3 Rumors and Speculation - Page 9

Jim Sachs · 09-26-2006, 01:53 AM

GA is Eric Daniels' baby. He has real goldfish bowls to observe while creating the fish.

feldon34 · 09-26-2006, 06:22 AM

You just keep giving more and more reasons to get your own tank, don't you.

Tiny Turtle · 09-26-2006, 07:11 AM

Goldfish are a bit cheaper to come by and keep, Mem...

feldon34 · 09-26-2006, 07:36 AM

Actually I'd be curious to know how expensive some of the exotic, ornamental goldfish are that Eric has in his product and if he owns examples of them.

loub516 · 09-26-2006, 07:58 AM

Some Examples:

http://home.columbus.rr.com/dandyora...room/index.htm

edaniels · 09-26-2006, 05:00 PM

Feldon, I never owned any super expensive goldfish. Probably the most I ever paid for a single fish was less than $20. But I went and looked at some doozies, here and in Hong Kong.

Thanks for the link, LouB516... good stuff!

pwuranium · 09-26-2006, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by patscarr:

Gosh, wouldn't that be cool if a couple of you guys could meet in Baltimore and go to the aquarium together? If I was in N.Y. right now, I'd go to Baltimore for that in a second.

I live in Baltimore. I go to the Aquarium about 2 times a year. I think it has suffered over the last few. I don't know if its because thy are putting assets to new exhibits.

Jav400 · 09-27-2006, 11:20 AM

Jim,

What is the native res you are shooting for in 3.0? The max my home monitor will do is 2048 x 1536, and depending on how "widescreen" is set up I might be able to see a fair amount of the tank at once. Are you shooting for something like 3200 x 1200? Just curious..........

Jim Sachs · 09-27-2006, 12:18 PM

Since it's now going to be 100% 3D, there is no native resolution for a background pic like there was before. The former background pic was 1280x768 in widescreen. The new program just stretches textures onto polygons, but I'm shooting for a 1-to-1 pixel:texel ratio on my 1920x1200 screen. If I had to name an actual pixel size for the "background", it would be about 4000x1200. On my monitor, this is about 2 screens wide.

It's impossible to keep a 3D object as razor-sharp as the native texture that it uses, because as the object moves toward or away from the camera, or changes its angle, the pixels of the texture will be averaged together as they are stretched onto the object. Even so, the gravel and few items I've got on the screen so far are VERY clear compared to the old version. This should make for a very convincing aquarium when displayed on a large Plasma or DLP screen.

Here are screen captures at the same resolution from v2.6 and v3.0:

Jim Sachs · 09-27-2006, 12:36 PM

Want to see an interesting phenomenon? Look at the center of this pic, then cross your eyes until the two images merge. The center image will be 3D. Don't do it too long, or your eyes might stay that way (just like your mother used to tell you

).

ESHIREY · 09-27-2006, 12:38 PM

Now that is sweet.

Jav400 · 09-27-2006, 12:42 PM

lol, Jav is imagining people all over the world sitting at their desks right now being asked the question,

"Why the devil are you staring at your screen crosseyed, are you nuts?"

Can you say Lemmings anyone?

Nice work Jim, thanks for the preview.

nicksteel · 09-27-2006, 01:18 PM

I assume this is the way 3.0 will utilize 2 monitors for 3-D?

Wonder how many eyes just crossed?

Jav400 · 09-27-2006, 01:19 PM

I'm cleaning the dust off of my Eye3D premium shutter glasses and getting ready.

feldon34 · 09-27-2006, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by nicksteel:

I assume this is the way 3.0 will utilize 2 monitors for 3-D?

Wonder how many eyes just crossed?

Don't assume. You know what assuming does.

There are easily a dozen 3D shutter glasses for PC. Shutter glasses alternate between the left eye being blocked, followed by the right eye being blocked. The blinking is synchronized with your graphics card so that the graphics card is displaying the image for your left eye at the same time the left eye is unblocked, and the same for the right eye.

To view a 60fps animation, you must be able to set your monitor (and glasses) to 120 fps. This is one case where LCD monitors are at a huge disadvantage, since they are almost all limited to 60fps.

DirectX 8 inexplicably stomped out support for 3D glasses but DirectX 9 added it back. It's unknown why it is so underused.

I don't think using 3D glasses will affect using 1 or 2 monitors (which lets you display more of the tank). I doubt there will be any way to use 1 monitor for the left eye and 1 monitor for the right eye. Jim probably won't do it anyway cause he doesn't want to get sued if someone gets permanently cross-eyed.

Jim Sachs · 09-27-2006, 01:21 PM

Ha, ha - Good one, Nick. Watch Steve Martin's cautionary movie "The Jerk" and you'll see why I can't recommend that.

nicksteel · 09-27-2006, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Ha, ha - Good one, Nick. Watch Steve Martin's cautionary movie "The Jerk" and you'll see why I can't recommend that.

Or,

Jim Sachs · 09-27-2006, 02:12 PM

Ha, yeah - Marty Feldman had the opposite problem (wall-eyed). I always wondered if he appreciated "magic-eye" posters more than the rest of us, since it wouldn't take any effort for him to focus on them

Jav400 · 09-27-2006, 02:21 PM

We have some threads from days of yore ( a forum search should suffice ) concerning 3D and shutter glasses. I purchased a fairly expensive set for the time ~$200 I think it was, which included a wired pair and a wireless pair, along with the Tx that interfaced with your computer, and loads of software that worked with it. Including software which would allow you to take any normal photo and transform it into a 3D photo. The effect is quite astounding, along the lines of a 3D imax theatre.

In the current aquarium the fish look astounding using these glasses. The background looks like exactly what it is, a series of cutouts strategically placed to provide the effect of coral. I am anxiously awaiting the true 3D background and a chance to look again.

As Morgan says, LCD screens pretty much kill any attempt at 3D using this method. Since LCD screens are on the rise 3D shutter glasses have fallen somewhat by the wayside in recent years. But for anyone who has a crt monitor that will handle the refresh rate, 3D apps like this, and alot of games look astounding. Nvidia has kept up with updates to their 3D drivers, since Wicked 3D disappeared, and with some adjustments excellent results can be acheived. I put an area on our Help/Drivers section of the web page about this. Currently I think the drivers we have listed have been replaced by a later set from nvidia.

Jim Sachs · 09-27-2006, 02:31 PM

Since I no longer have any way of seeing it in 3D (no more CRTs), I can't really develop 3.0 for stereo vision. Since it's 3D, it will automatically work to some extent, but there might be some visual anomolies.

I'd like to try one of these: http://www.sharpsystems.com/products...nch/ll-151-3d/

The resolution is very low, but it's an interesting concept.

09-26-2006, 01:53 AM	#161
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	GA is Eric Daniels' baby. He has real goldfish bowls to observe while creating the fish. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

09-26-2006, 06:22 AM	#162
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	You just keep giving more and more reasons to get your own tank, don't you. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

09-26-2006, 07:11 AM	#163
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Goldfish are a bit cheaper to come by and keep, Mem... Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

09-26-2006, 07:36 AM	#164
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Actually I'd be curious to know how expensive some of the exotic, ornamental goldfish are that Eric has in his product and if he owns examples of them. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

09-26-2006, 07:58 AM	#165
loub516 Registered Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Savannah, Ga. Posts: 421	Some Examples: http://home.columbus.rr.com/dandyora...room/index.htm LB

09-26-2006, 05:00 PM	#166
edaniels Goldfish Aquarium Developer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Glendale, California Posts: 82	Feldon, I never owned any super expensive goldfish. Probably the most I ever paid for a single fish was less than $20. But I went and looked at some doozies, here and in Hong Kong. Thanks for the link, LouB516... good stuff! ---------------------------------- E R I C D A N I E L S, a n i m a t o r Goldfish Aquarium Screensaver ----------------------------------

09-26-2006, 05:44 PM	#167
pwuranium Registered Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3	Originally posted by patscarr: Gosh, wouldn't that be cool if a couple of you guys could meet in Baltimore and go to the aquarium together? If I was in N.Y. right now, I'd go to Baltimore for that in a second. I live in Baltimore. I go to the Aquarium about 2 times a year. I think it has suffered over the last few. I don't know if its because thy are putting assets to new exhibits.

09-27-2006, 11:20 AM	#168
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Jim, What is the native res you are shooting for in 3.0? The max my home monitor will do is 2048 x 1536, and depending on how "widescreen" is set up I might be able to see a fair amount of the tank at once. Are you shooting for something like 3200 x 1200? Just curious.......... Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

09-27-2006, 12:38 PM	#171
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	Now that is sweet. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

09-27-2006, 12:42 PM	#172
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	lol, Jav is imagining people all over the world sitting at their desks right now being asked the question, "Why the devil are you staring at your screen crosseyed, are you nuts?" Can you say Lemmings anyone? Nice work Jim, thanks for the preview. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

09-27-2006, 01:18 PM	#173
nicksteel Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Mississippi (and no, I don't watch FOX!) Posts: 244	I assume this is the way 3.0 will utilize 2 monitors for 3-D? Wonder how many eyes just crossed?

09-27-2006, 01:19 PM	#174
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	I'm cleaning the dust off of my Eye3D premium shutter glasses and getting ready. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

09-27-2006, 01:21 PM	#175
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by nicksteel: I assume this is the way 3.0 will utilize 2 monitors for 3-D? Wonder how many eyes just crossed? Don't assume. You know what assuming does. There are easily a dozen 3D shutter glasses for PC. Shutter glasses alternate between the left eye being blocked, followed by the right eye being blocked. The blinking is synchronized with your graphics card so that the graphics card is displaying the image for your left eye at the same time the left eye is unblocked, and the same for the right eye. To view a 60fps animation, you must be able to set your monitor (and glasses) to 120 fps. This is one case where LCD monitors are at a huge disadvantage, since they are almost all limited to 60fps. DirectX 8 inexplicably stomped out support for 3D glasses but DirectX 9 added it back. It's unknown why it is so underused. I don't think using 3D glasses will affect using 1 or 2 monitors (which lets you display more of the tank). I doubt there will be any way to use 1 monitor for the left eye and 1 monitor for the right eye. Jim probably won't do it anyway cause he doesn't want to get sued if someone gets permanently cross-eyed. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

09-27-2006, 01:21 PM	#176
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Ha, ha - Good one, Nick. Watch Steve Martin's cautionary movie "The Jerk" and you'll see why I can't recommend that. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

09-27-2006, 02:12 PM	#178
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Ha, yeah - Marty Feldman had the opposite problem (wall-eyed). I always wondered if he appreciated "magic-eye" posters more than the rest of us, since it wouldn't take any effort for him to focus on them Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

09-27-2006, 02:21 PM	#179
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	We have some threads from days of yore ( a forum search should suffice ) concerning 3D and shutter glasses. I purchased a fairly expensive set for the time ~$200 I think it was, which included a wired pair and a wireless pair, along with the Tx that interfaced with your computer, and loads of software that worked with it. Including software which would allow you to take any normal photo and transform it into a 3D photo. The effect is quite astounding, along the lines of a 3D imax theatre. In the current aquarium the fish look astounding using these glasses. The background looks like exactly what it is, a series of cutouts strategically placed to provide the effect of coral. I am anxiously awaiting the true 3D background and a chance to look again. As Morgan says, LCD screens pretty much kill any attempt at 3D using this method. Since LCD screens are on the rise 3D shutter glasses have fallen somewhat by the wayside in recent years. But for anyone who has a crt monitor that will handle the refresh rate, 3D apps like this, and alot of games look astounding. Nvidia has kept up with updates to their 3D drivers, since Wicked 3D disappeared, and with some adjustments excellent results can be acheived. I put an area on our Help/Drivers section of the web page about this. Currently I think the drivers we have listed have been replaced by a later set from nvidia. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

09-27-2006, 02:31 PM	#180
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Since I no longer have any way of seeing it in 3D (no more CRTs), I can't really develop 3.0 for stereo vision. Since it's 3D, it will automatically work to some extent, but there might be some visual anomolies. I'd like to try one of these: http://www.sharpsystems.com/products...nch/ll-151-3d/ The resolution is very low, but it's an interesting concept. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium