Marine Aquarium 3 Beta INSTALLER test - Page 9

Jim Sachs · 02-01-2009, 09:37 PM

No, not worth the trouble and expense. As Mark points out, I see an awful lot of these notices on software I've downloaded from big companies.

feldon34 · 02-01-2009, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by markknight:

Is Prolific willing to live with this issue? My recommendation was YES.
We do not send this to you, you come find us.
We do not post on fly-by-night software DL sites...period
Could this result in a loss of sales?
Sure. To certify this straight across the board could cost 20G or better a year.

Please understand folks, this is NOT just a Prolific issue.
Put Norton, Adobe Reader, Quickbooks (pretty big list) on a system that did not come with it originally and watch the warnings fly!

I would imagine that most users of Vista see so many security prompts, warnings, and error messages in their day-to-day activities that they would not be concerned by an unsigned application. Especially when, as you point out, major applications (some costing $500+ vs. $9.95) "fail" this new Microsoft 'test'.

I'm sure some will feel differently, but I strongly feel that Vista is a nuisance, an experiment really, not a proper OS.

feldon34 · 02-01-2009, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

Originally posted by markknight:

I will address the certification issue.

It's clearly for Prolific to decide. I just pointed out the issue.

Mark Knight works for Prolific and personally developed the Installer. Perhaps you did not notice the addition to his profile "Prolific Staff".

Originally posted by Dale:

Originally posted by markknight:

Is Prolific willing to live with this issue? My recommendation was YES.

When Prolific decides (and somebody tells us), it's no longer an issue.

I am finding your attempts to divide issues into "Prolific" vs. Jim vs. SereneScreen and the repeated inference that you are really not interested in the opinions of any of us but will tolerate only "official" answers from Jim Sachs or Prolific to be increasingly counterproductive.

After being involved with the Aquarium for 10 years, I feel I have a unique and fairly accurate perspective. I am familiar with most of the motivations, processes, and inner workings of the Aquarium and its development. These days, it is rare that my responses to customer questions are very far off-base.

That you don't find our comments relevant is unfortunate, but I'd rather Jim S., Jim R., Edgar, and Mark be able to focus development on the Aquarium, rather than have to spend time responding to issues to which the answer is already known. We have direct access to the developers of the Aquarium -- let's not abuse it.

Dale · 02-01-2009, 11:09 PM

Original reply deleted.

jedware · 02-02-2009, 12:03 AM

I don't know if this is an installer issue or program issue. When I was moving my altlogo.png file to the correct location under Application Data I ran into a strange situation.

On all my other machines I easily found the folder and placed the file in folder. However on one machine I couldn't find the folder. At first I thought I hadn't installed the program but then saw that it was installed by the installer.

I did a search and saw that the folder was created under a different user profile than the one i used to install. And it was a limited user account to boot. I am not sure why MA3 would pick another user profile to create directories. I suspect it is using some offset rather than the correct name for the location. The limited user account was first alphabetically from the admin account I used to install.

Has anyone else experienced this behaviour on XP SP3 and MA3?

Edgar · 02-02-2009, 01:32 AM

It requires an admin to install MA3.
To run MA3, a limited user can run it and use the admin install info.
Each user will have their own data profile.
If we don't let it run as limited user then it will keep asking to be installed for a limited user.
As you can see each user will have their own working dir for their playlist, custom logo.

cjmaddy · 02-02-2009, 03:56 AM

I may yet get the opportunity to quote Cromwell!

Dale · 02-02-2009, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by jedware:

I don't know if this is an installer issue or program issue. When I was moving my altlogo.png file to the correct location under Application Data I ran into a strange situation.

On all my other machines I easily found the folder and placed the file in folder. However on one machine I couldn't find the folder. At first I thought I hadn't installed the program but then saw that it was installed by the installer.

I did a search and saw that the folder was created under a different user profile than the one i used to install. And it was a limited user account to boot. I am not sure why MA3 would pick another user profile to create directories. I suspect it is using some offset rather than the correct name for the location. The limited user account was first alphabetically from the admin account I used to install.

Has anyone else experienced this behaviour on XP SP3 and MA3?

Supplemental to what Edgar said - and you probably already know this:

You'll remember that some other programs ask you, during the installation, whether you want to install for "All users" or for "Only This User". The MA3 installer doesn't do that - it just installs for "All users".

But, to allow any of the users of the computer to use MA3, and to allow each user to have his/her own customizations (fish, logos, music, etc.), there has to be a separate place to put each user's settings. That's what you're hunting.

However, I suspect that the place for that data, for any particular user, isn't created until that user actually runs MA3 for THAT USER'S first time. [It makes sense to do it that way]

So, before "your personal account" first runs MA3, no place has been created for you to put your Altlogo files.

I'm guessing that your "limited" account had already run MA3, but your "normal account" had not yet run MA3.

HTH

jedware · 02-02-2009, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Edgar:

It requires an admin to install MA3.
To run MA3, a limited user can run it and use the admin install info.
Each user will have their own data profile.
If we don't let it run as limited user then it will keep asking to be installed for a limited user.
As you can see each user will have their own working dir for their playlist, custom logo.

That is the problem. It WAS installed under the admin account but the directory was ONLY under the limited account. The ADMIN account was pointing across profiles to the limited account.

There wasn't separate working directories. Only one.

Dale · 02-02-2009, 12:41 PM

Question for markknight: (or Jim or Edgar or whomever)

I have some suggestions regarding the installer, and related to the Direct3D and DirectX9.0c issues. Would you prefer them in this topic? Or in a separate one?

cjmaddy · 02-04-2009, 10:06 AM

The only issue I've recently had is the February issue of the magazine I buy.

... But there has been the occasional problem, with MA3...

..... You Have Problems, Not Issues

Wizwad · 02-04-2009, 04:58 PM

At my work we had to switch to 'observations' in case 'issues' was too inflamatory!

Jim Sachs · 02-04-2009, 05:14 PM

There are so may current cliches going around that I've lost count. It used to be that maybe once a month you would hear the phase, "Having said that...", or "That said...". Now it's 100 times a day.

And "Begging the Question" suddenly seems to be synonymous with "Asking the Question". It's actually the name of one of the classic Logical Fallacies.

Overlord · 02-04-2009, 05:27 PM

I just purchased the MA3 upgrade installer and keycode. Everything is working perfectly. I like the fact that the statistics display is off when the saver starts. I was going to wait to get the keycode but figured why not get it now, since I was going to have to get it eventually. Anyway, everything is fine. My system:
Winxp Pro SP3 - Pentium D 945 3.4Ghz - XFX 9600GT 512mb video card - 3gb 667mhz dual channel Corsair ram.

RA · 02-04-2009, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Overlord:

...I was going to wait to get the keycode but figured why not get it now, since I was going to have to get it eventually.

That's the way I looked at it too. But I haven't gotten around to installing it yet...

The license is a must have if you have all of Jim's work.

Jim Sachs · 02-04-2009, 08:28 PM

Starting with the next Beta, the clock and logo support will require a Key Code, so you guys are all set!

Wizwad · 02-04-2009, 09:14 PM

I'm set too, then! (I decided to throw some money at it in case you need more pizza!)

Jim Sachs · 02-04-2009, 09:45 PM

Thanks, now I can get the next one with extra cheese.

Dreamster · 02-04-2009, 10:53 PM

Just purchased my upgrade and all is good. Go ahead and make it double pepperoni as well Jim

Everything is looking good and starting to come together although it would be nice to see the revised fish and movement.

Jim Sachs · 02-04-2009, 11:22 PM

1. Finish clocks.
2. Bring clams to life.
3. New fish models.
4. New fish movement.
5 through 2,543,921 - To be determined.

02-01-2009, 09:37 PM	#161
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	No, not worth the trouble and expense. As Mark points out, I see an awful lot of these notices on software I've downloaded from big companies. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-01-2009, 10:01 PM	#162
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by markknight: Is Prolific willing to live with this issue? My recommendation was YES. We do not send this to you, you come find us. We do not post on fly-by-night software DL sites...period Could this result in a loss of sales? Sure. To certify this straight across the board could cost 20G or better a year. Please understand folks, this is NOT just a Prolific issue. Put Norton, Adobe Reader, Quickbooks (pretty big list) on a system that did not come with it originally and watch the warnings fly! I would imagine that most users of Vista see so many security prompts, warnings, and error messages in their day-to-day activities that they would not be concerned by an unsigned application. Especially when, as you point out, major applications (some costing $500+ vs. $9.95) "fail" this new Microsoft 'test'. I'm sure some will feel differently, but I strongly feel that Vista is a nuisance, an experiment really, not a proper OS. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

02-01-2009, 10:11 PM	#163
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Dale: Originally posted by markknight: I will address the certification issue. It's clearly for Prolific to decide. I just pointed out the issue. Mark Knight works for Prolific and personally developed the Installer. Perhaps you did not notice the addition to his profile "Prolific Staff". Originally posted by Dale: Originally posted by markknight: Is Prolific willing to live with this issue? My recommendation was YES. When Prolific decides (and somebody tells us), it's no longer an issue. I am finding your attempts to divide issues into "Prolific" vs. Jim vs. SereneScreen and the repeated inference that you are really not interested in the opinions of any of us but will tolerate only "official" answers from Jim Sachs or Prolific to be increasingly counterproductive. After being involved with the Aquarium for 10 years, I feel I have a unique and fairly accurate perspective. I am familiar with most of the motivations, processes, and inner workings of the Aquarium and its development. These days, it is rare that my responses to customer questions are very far off-base. That you don't find our comments relevant is unfortunate, but I'd rather Jim S., Jim R., Edgar, and Mark be able to focus development on the Aquarium, rather than have to spend time responding to issues to which the answer is already known. We have direct access to the developers of the Aquarium -- let's not abuse it. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

02-01-2009, 11:09 PM	#164
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Original reply deleted. Last edited by Dale; 02-02-2009 at 09:34 AM.

02-02-2009, 01:32 AM	#166
Edgar Prolific/SereneScreen Developer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Norwalk, CA Posts: 513	It requires an admin to install MA3. To run MA3, a limited user can run it and use the admin install info. Each user will have their own data profile. If we don't let it run as limited user then it will keep asking to be installed for a limited user. As you can see each user will have their own working dir for their playlist, custom logo. *Edgar Tolentino* Prolific Developer www.prolific.com www.LifeGlobe.com

02-02-2009, 12:03 AM	#165
jedware Registered Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 23	I don't know if this is an installer issue or program issue. When I was moving my altlogo.png file to the correct location under Application Data I ran into a strange situation. On all my other machines I easily found the folder and placed the file in folder. However on one machine I couldn't find the folder. At first I thought I hadn't installed the program but then saw that it was installed by the installer. I did a search and saw that the folder was created under a different user profile than the one i used to install. And it was a limited user account to boot. I am not sure why MA3 would pick another user profile to create directories. I suspect it is using some offset rather than the correct name for the location. The limited user account was first alphabetically from the admin account I used to install. Has anyone else experienced this behaviour on XP SP3 and MA3?

02-02-2009, 03:56 AM	#167
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	I may yet get the opportunity to quote Cromwell!

02-02-2009, 09:53 AM	#168
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by jedware: I don't know if this is an installer issue or program issue. When I was moving my altlogo.png file to the correct location under Application Data I ran into a strange situation. On all my other machines I easily found the folder and placed the file in folder. However on one machine I couldn't find the folder. At first I thought I hadn't installed the program but then saw that it was installed by the installer. I did a search and saw that the folder was created under a different user profile than the one i used to install. And it was a limited user account to boot. I am not sure why MA3 would pick another user profile to create directories. I suspect it is using some offset rather than the correct name for the location. The limited user account was first alphabetically from the admin account I used to install. Has anyone else experienced this behaviour on XP SP3 and MA3? Supplemental to what Edgar said - and you probably already know this: You'll remember that some other programs ask you, during the installation, whether you want to install for "All users" or for "Only This User". The MA3 installer doesn't do that - it just installs for "All users". But, to allow any of the users of the computer to use MA3, and to allow each user to have his/her own customizations (fish, logos, music, etc.), there has to be a separate place to put each user's settings. That's what you're hunting. However, I suspect that the place for that data, for any particular user, isn't created until that user actually runs MA3 for THAT USER'S first time. [It makes sense to do it that way] So, before "your personal account" first runs MA3, no place has been created for you to put your Altlogo files. I'm guessing that your "limited" account had already run MA3, but your "normal account" had not yet run MA3. HTH

02-02-2009, 10:15 AM	#169
jedware Registered Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 23	Originally posted by Edgar: It requires an admin to install MA3. To run MA3, a limited user can run it and use the admin install info. Each user will have their own data profile. If we don't let it run as limited user then it will keep asking to be installed for a limited user. As you can see each user will have their own working dir for their playlist, custom logo. That is the problem. It WAS installed under the admin account but the directory was ONLY under the limited account. The ADMIN account was pointing across profiles to the limited account. There wasn't separate working directories. Only one.

02-02-2009, 12:41 PM	#170
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Question for markknight: (or Jim or Edgar or whomever) I have some suggestions regarding the installer, and related to the Direct3D and DirectX9.0c issues. Would you prefer them in this topic? Or in a separate one?

02-04-2009, 10:06 AM	#171
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	The only issue I've recently had is the February issue of the magazine I buy. ... But there has been the occasional problem, with MA3... ..... You Have Problems, Not Issues

02-04-2009, 04:58 PM	#172
Wizwad Only me... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 2,584	At my work we had to switch to 'observations' in case 'issues' was too inflamatory! Mark ----------- Intel i7 12700K \| Aorus Z690 Pro \| Corsair DDR5 5600 32GB \| Asus Dual RTX3060ti 6GB v2 Mini OC \| Corsair RM850 Gold PSU \| 1TB NVMe M.2 WD Black SN850 \| 4TB Seagate BarraCuda HDD \| Corsair Airflow 5000D Case \| HP 32QHD 4K Monitor \| Windows 11 x64 Professional

02-04-2009, 05:14 PM	#173
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	There are so may current cliches going around that I've lost count. It used to be that maybe once a month you would hear the phase, "Having said that...", or "That said...". Now it's 100 times a day. And "Begging the Question" suddenly seems to be synonymous with "Asking the Question". It's actually the name of one of the classic Logical Fallacies. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-04-2009, 05:27 PM	#174
Overlord Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 72	I just purchased the MA3 upgrade installer and keycode. Everything is working perfectly. I like the fact that the statistics display is off when the saver starts. I was going to wait to get the keycode but figured why not get it now, since I was going to have to get it eventually. Anyway, everything is fine. My system: Winxp Pro SP3 - Pentium D 945 3.4Ghz - XFX 9600GT 512mb video card - 3gb 667mhz dual channel Corsair ram.

02-04-2009, 08:04 PM	#175
RA Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 45	Originally posted by Overlord: ...I was going to wait to get the keycode but figured why not get it now, since I was going to have to get it eventually. That's the way I looked at it too. But I haven't gotten around to installing it yet... The license is a must have if you have all of Jim's work.

02-04-2009, 08:28 PM	#176
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Starting with the next Beta, the clock and logo support will require a Key Code, so you guys are all set! Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-04-2009, 09:14 PM	#177
Wizwad Only me... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 2,584	I'm set too, then! (I decided to throw some money at it in case you need more pizza!) Mark ----------- Intel i7 12700K \| Aorus Z690 Pro \| Corsair DDR5 5600 32GB \| Asus Dual RTX3060ti 6GB v2 Mini OC \| Corsair RM850 Gold PSU \| 1TB NVMe M.2 WD Black SN850 \| 4TB Seagate BarraCuda HDD \| Corsair Airflow 5000D Case \| HP 32QHD 4K Monitor \| Windows 11 x64 Professional

02-04-2009, 09:45 PM	#178
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Thanks, now I can get the next one with extra cheese. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

02-04-2009, 10:53 PM	#179
Dreamster Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 27	All is Good Just purchased my upgrade and all is good. Go ahead and make it double pepperoni as well Jim Everything is looking good and starting to come together although it would be nice to see the revised fish and movement.

02-04-2009, 11:22 PM	#180
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	1. Finish clocks. 2. Bring clams to life. 3. New fish models. 4. New fish movement. 5 through 2,543,921 - To be determined. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium