Found a BUG!

JimO'Connor · 08-20-2004, 02:40 PM

The gray screen tells you to enter "TESTFISH" to enable the screen saver. The correct text is "LIFEGLOBE". This will enable the "Test" button on the screen effects panel in the system preferences application.

"LifeGlobe" will not enable general functionality in version 0.9.3 (this isn't a bug, but it is a decision which will be reconsidered).

AKcrab · 08-20-2004, 03:34 PM

Strange. My grey screen tells me to go to http://lifeglobe.com to get the key code. Finding it there is quite a challenge, but in the FAQ's it gives both 'TESTFISH' and 'LifeGlobe' as keys.

So the goldfish beta only runs as an application, correct? The screensaver portion is reserved for registered users?

If so, the text shown on the grey screen should be a little more straightforward:

"To enable screensaver functionality, you must register this product at http://lifeglobe.com. Feel free to use the Goldfish Aquarium application to test the program."

Or something similar.
my $0.02

JimO'Connor · 08-20-2004, 03:40 PM

Version 0.9.4 (coming shortly) will work as a screen saver with 1 fish for a short time, then change to a mostly dark tank until the screen saver is exited and entered again. This will mimick the application's functionality.

I'll get Auden to fix the FAQ.

Thanks AKcrab.

AKcrab · 08-21-2004, 05:33 PM

Open 'System Preferences' and Select 'Desktop and Screensavers'.
Choose goldfish aquarium.
If you have sound on, you hear the bubbles.
Click any other system preference, or 'show all'.
Sound continues. In fact, sound continues until you close system preferences completely.
0.9.4
(Is there a list of known bugs?)

dhigbee · 08-21-2004, 06:30 PM

Yeah, my bubble sound switches on and off, for no apparent reason. I'm only running it as an application, in unpaid mode.

johnblommers · 08-21-2004, 10:34 PM

So I also noticed that the GA application can mysteriously drop the sound output. Going to the edit prefs menu can bring it back, so can other accidental things. If it just sits in the background long enough - like about a 1/2 minute, the bubbles sound will quit too, and restoring the application to the foreground won't bring it back. Other system sounds continue normallyl.

If you go to the GA preferences, you will see that the bubbles are set to go on "when active", and when you hit OK sure enough the bubble sound returns.

If you set the preferences to sound always on, then the sound does not quit.

Perhaps the application is suffering from buffering up too much sound while missing the event that sends the windows back to the foreground? Just a WAG on my part.

IANAPBIWBO
(I am not a programmer but I wanna be one)

JimO'Connor · 08-26-2004, 06:55 PM

I need a couple e-mail addresses private messaged to me of people who will test the sound functionality for me on a new build (and yes, you'll know what the surprise was I alluded to in another thread -- but you'll have to keep it to yourself).

Marsh Marigold · 08-29-2004, 06:48 AM

Surprise? Surprise? Do I have to buy a Mac?

(hoping for trickle-down effect)

johnblommers · 08-29-2004, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Marsh Marigold
Surprise? Surprise? Do I have to buy a Mac?

(hoping for trickle-down effect)

Let's see, what's a good fanatical and fun thing to reply with? :

The best reason to get a Mac today is because:

1 - the Mac hardware is better than PC hardware
2 - Macs are not more expensive then PCs
3 - Mac OS is better integrated with the hardware
4 - always favor the underdog :heart:
5 - Macs don't suffer from malware (it IS true!)
6 - friends don't let friends buy PCs
7 - Macintosh has Goldfish Aquarium!

So I saved the best for last

Tiny Turtle · 08-30-2004, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by johnblommers
2 - Macs are not more expensive then PCs

Care to elaborate on that one?

AKcrab · 08-30-2004, 01:32 AM

Wheeeeeee!!

Depends how much $$ your time is worth.

johnblommers · 08-30-2004, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Tiny Turtle
Care to elaborate on that one?

It'll be my pleasure to elaborate.

The amount of time I spend keeping my Macintoshes running smoothly is infinitesimal compared to the amount of time I have to spend just to keep my Windows PCs running at all, especially in the last few weeks, with all the accursed worms, viruses, malware, pop-up ware, and adware that can infect a Windows PC just by surfing the web.

Time is money. I'd rather spend it doing productive things like learning new stuff, playing Halo, looking at Goldfish Aquarium

or posting to this forum, than fixing Windows PCs.

Purchase price of the Macintosh isn't out of line these days either given the quality of the product. I recently priced out the parts to buy a dual processor 64-bit PC and it was almost $2500. For a few hundred dollars more I can have the top of the line G5 from Apple. :heart:

Tiny Turtle · 08-30-2004, 04:07 AM

Sorry for destroying your thread, Jim.

John,
Know that I would absolutely love a G5 to call my own and envy my sweetie who spend her day at work using one.

I however, must be surfing the web differently ("Surf Different"?) than you do as I don't (knock on wood) spend any time worth mentioning on removing worms, viruses or mal-/pop-up-/adware.
I guess that mean a Mac still is the costlier alternative for me, eh?

[friendly banter]
Good thing you're happy playing Halo on the Radeon 9600XT of the "top-of-the-line G5". Your wife's "OLD gaming PC" has a more powerful 9800Pro card (I'm assuming her newer box has an even more powerful card).

[/friendly banter]

/TT

johnblommers · 08-30-2004, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Tiny Turtle
Sorry for destroying your thread, Jim.

John,
Know that I would absolutely love a G5 to call my own and envy my sweetie who spend her day at work using one.

I however, must be surfing the web differently ("Surf Different"?) than you do as I don't (knock on wood) spend any time worth mentioning on removing worms, viruses or mal-/pop-up-/adware.
I guess that mean a Mac still is the costlier alternative for me, eh?

[friendly banter]
Good thing you're happy playing Halo on the Radeon 9600XT of the "top-of-the-line G5". Your wife's "OLD gaming PC" has a more powerful 9800Pro card (I'm assuming her newer box has an even more powerful card).
[/friendly banter]

/TT

TT: Believe me I am delighted that you are enjoying your Internet surfing with no headaches! What's your secret? Maybe Microsoft did not need to spend $300Million on developing Service Pack 2.

As for my beloved G5, it was purchased 8 months ago and it's not top of the line any more. It's dual PPC processors clock at a paltry 2Ghz while the top of the line G5 does so at 2.5Ghz.

The stock ATI Radeon 9600 Pro in my G5 is NOT top of the llne either, I admit this freely and hope that Santa will bring me a better video card this Christmas. Perhaps an ATI Radion 9800 Pro Mac Edition with 256Meg VRAM, or perhaps a dual-headed NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL Card and a new Apple 30-inch display

BTW I am unable to use the Radion 9800 Pro in the Mac because Macs and PC use a different type of BIOS. the Mac uses Open Firmware. Now I have heard there are flashers out there to change the video card's BIOS from PC to Mac and back again. More research is needed here.

Even so, I can enjoy the Goldfish Aquarium screen saver on my G5 as a desktop background using about 10% of the processors. My blood presure is way lower now

My wife enjoys her ATI Radeon 9800 Pro because I bought if for her :heart: so she'd get really good frame rates when playing EverQuest. You have to support your spouse!

I will not tell you how long it took me to disable the onboard AGP video hardware on the Pavilion to get the ATI 9800 AGP card working

It's not as easy to get dual monitors working on the PC as it is on the Mac.

Tiny Turtle · 08-30-2004, 04:55 AM

If you don't buy a HP it would probably be a lot easier. I have no space for it now, but on my previous system I hooked up two monitors to the back of the computer and pressed [Power] on the front. Can't imagine it going any smoother, really. Just because there are problems with a PC doesn't mean all PC everyhere are plagued with them.

Think of it like this. A lot of the problems with computers comes from beginners. Since there are so many total newbies sitting down in front of a PC compared to a Mac there is bound to be more issues with PC. Also, if everyone ran OsX, I assure you there would be oh-so-many more virii and adware messing up your system. It's not because it's impossible to create bad stuff for OsX.

/Tiny Space

johnblommers · 08-30-2004, 12:48 PM

Even some ex-HP folks I know would agree that part of the problem is the HP Pavilion architecture. It turns out the exact same issues apply to an old Compaq PC and a Microtel PC I own. In the case of the Compaq, the on-board video automatically disables itself when a new PCI graphics card is added in and there is just no way to run two monitors. With the Microtel, you have to pick either either the built-in AGP or add-on PCI video - in the BIOS of all places.

Now I agree that all PCs are not the same, but it is MUCH easier to get a PC to work with multiple monitors when the vendor provides the video ports in the base model. Or when you add in a dual-headed video card like the ATI RAdeon 9800 Pro - then dual monitors is trivial.

On any Macintosh I've ever used, when I have stuffed them full of video cards, they all simply worked - even the TV out ports work if you attach a video cam or a TV set to them. It's a crazy wonderful kind of plug and play.

IMHO it is not good enough to blame the newbies for all the Windows malware and ease-of-use problems - these kinds of problems barely exist at all on Mac and Linux. And it's not a market share thing It's the Windows OS architecture that lies at the bottom of it.

Sillyness like autologging in the Administrator user by default is the Windoows norm even after SP2. That gives malware full system access.

Sillyness like Active X controls that can install software simply by visitng a web site.

But enough about that - this is the Serene Screne board, so let me revert to a more relevant topic

The whole multi-monitor issue came up again recently for me because of Goldfish Aquarium. You can allow GA to run on all monitors. It turns out the GA screen saver architecture runs all video monitors at rate of the slowest monitor. However if you clone copies of the GA application you can run each one on a monitor and they all run independently.

feldon34 · 08-30-2004, 04:25 PM

Using HP, Compaq, Packard Bell, and eMachines to try to argue why Windows is inferior to Mac is like trying to use the Chevy Nova and Ford Pinto to argue why nobody should buy any American cars.

A properly built Windows 2000 PC has the same exact stability as a G4 running Mac OS X. I agree that the ActiveX/Spyware garbage is entirely Microsoft's fault, but by using a better e-mail client and web browser, these problems can almost entirely be avoided.

johnblommers · 08-30-2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by feldon28
Using HP, Compaq, Packard Bell, and eMachines to try to argue why Windows is inferior to Mac is like trying to use the Chevy Nova and Ford Pinto to argue why nobody should buy any American cars.

A properly built Windows 2000 PC has the same exact stability as a G4 running Mac OS X. I agree that the ActiveX/Spyware garbage is entirely Microsoft's fault, but by using a better e-mail client and web browser, these problems can almost entirely be avoided.

There are two issues on our friendly table:

(1) A well-designed PC works better with Windows (or Linux for that matter). The challenge is to find which PC is well-designed.

We agree there are low-end or low-cost version of PCs that are a BUGGER to upgrade and expand, and we listed HP, Compaq, Packard Bell, Microtel, and eMacines. That does reflect on computers in general and on Windows in particular, by association. Given how many PCs sold are below the $1000 mark, I shudder to think about upgrading any of them.

A macintosh is an example of a well-designed computer. Curiously you won't find a new Mac priced much under $1000.

(2) The casual user, newbie, etc, uses IE because it's there. I agree we all would be better off using FireFox or Mozilla for our surfing and email needs.

But the regular windows user isn't going to have the wherewithal to switch. And in corporate America the IT department dictates what employees surf with and email with.

And some websites are written such that ONLY IE will work with them. This makes my hair stand on end!

"The problem is choice" - Neo

feldon34 · 08-30-2004, 05:06 PM

You can now build an excellent, stable PC for <$1000.

johnblommers · 08-30-2004, 05:48 PM

Yes, all of my very good PC-loving friends have encouraged me to toss out all of my old PC hardware and just go build one from new parts. Building PCs is a good experience, but I basically took a bunch of on-hand PCs and took the best parts out of them to do this.

The point of building a computer is to learn stuff. I am not interested in a sub $1000 piece of hardware however, for little will be learned.

I want a machine with a dual processor motherboard able to support 64-bit AMD CPUs. It needs a kicking video card, a gigabit ethernet card, firewire, optical audio, and it must be able to accomodate at least 8Gig of RAM.

My DP G5 is such a machine of course, but to gain broad experience and learn at building the computer from scratch you have to go Intel-compatible.

This is crazy high end stuff, I know, and it will cost about $2500 buy the parts to build it. I've speced out the parts already. At least the 64-bit Linux software is available in serveral distributions.

But this is where the frontier lies. This is where it's really fun and interesting. This is how we learn. You learn at the cutting edge.

The reason I am involved in the Serene Screen boards is because the Marine Aquarium and Goldfish Aquarium products are cutting-edge, which draws a very smart and outspoken crowd. I have learned quite a bit by engaging the good folks who participate in these forums. I hope the readership agrees.

08-20-2004, 02:40 PM	#1
JimO'Connor Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kenai, Alaska Posts: 678	Found a BUG! The gray screen tells you to enter "TESTFISH" to enable the screen saver. The correct text is "LIFEGLOBE". This will enable the "Test" button on the screen effects panel in the system preferences application. "LifeGlobe" will not enable general functionality in version 0.9.3 (this isn't a bug, but it is a decision which will be reconsidered). Jim O'Connor Order N Development

08-20-2004, 03:40 PM	#3
JimO'Connor Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kenai, Alaska Posts: 678	Version 0.9.4 (coming shortly) will work as a screen saver with 1 fish for a short time, then change to a mostly dark tank until the screen saver is exited and entered again. This will mimick the application's functionality. I'll get Auden to fix the FAQ. Thanks AKcrab. Jim O'Connor Order N Development

08-21-2004, 10:34 PM	#6
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	Here too So I also noticed that the GA application can mysteriously drop the sound output. Going to the edit prefs menu can bring it back, so can other accidental things. If it just sits in the background long enough - like about a 1/2 minute, the bubbles sound will quit too, and restoring the application to the foreground won't bring it back. Other system sounds continue normallyl. If you go to the GA preferences, you will see that the bubbles are set to go on "when active", and when you hit OK sure enough the bubble sound returns. If you set the preferences to sound always on, then the sound does not quit. Perhaps the application is suffering from buffering up too much sound while missing the event that sends the windows back to the foreground? Just a WAG on my part. IANAPBIWBO (I am not a programmer but I wanna be one) Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

08-26-2004, 06:55 PM	#7
JimO'Connor Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kenai, Alaska Posts: 678	I need a couple e-mail addresses private messaged to me of people who will test the sound functionality for me on a new build (and yes, you'll know what the surprise was I alluded to in another thread -- but you'll have to keep it to yourself). Jim O'Connor Order N Development

08-29-2004, 06:48 AM	#8
Marsh Marigold Still Folding Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Plymouth, Michigan Posts: 190	Surprise? Surprise? Do I have to buy a Mac? (hoping for trickle-down effect) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

08-20-2004, 03:34 PM	#2
AKcrab Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 233	Strange. My grey screen tells me to go to http://lifeglobe.com to get the key code. Finding it there is quite a challenge, but in the FAQ's it gives both 'TESTFISH' and 'LifeGlobe' as keys. So the goldfish beta only runs as an application, correct? The screensaver portion is reserved for registered users? If so, the text shown on the grey screen should be a little more straightforward: "To enable screensaver functionality, you must register this product at http://lifeglobe.com. Feel free to use the Goldfish Aquarium application to test the program." Or something similar. my $0.02

08-21-2004, 05:33 PM	#4
AKcrab Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 233	Open 'System Preferences' and Select 'Desktop and Screensavers'. Choose goldfish aquarium. If you have sound on, you hear the bubbles. Click any other system preference, or 'show all'. Sound continues. In fact, sound continues until you close system preferences completely. 0.9.4 (Is there a list of known bugs?)

08-21-2004, 06:30 PM	#5
dhigbee The Snorkeler Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 29	Yeah, my bubble sound switches on and off, for no apparent reason. I'm only running it as an application, in unpaid mode.

08-29-2004, 12:22 PM	#9
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	So you're a switcher? Originally posted by Marsh Marigold Surprise? Surprise? Do I have to buy a Mac? (hoping for trickle-down effect) Let's see, what's a good fanatical and fun thing to reply with? : The best reason to get a Mac today is because: 1 - the Mac hardware is better than PC hardware 2 - Macs are not more expensive then PCs 3 - Mac OS is better integrated with the hardware 4 - always favor the underdog :heart: 5 - Macs don't suffer from malware (it IS true!) 6 - friends don't let friends buy PCs 7 - Macintosh has Goldfish Aquarium! So I saved the best for last Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

08-30-2004, 01:15 AM	#10
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Re: So you're a switcher? Originally posted by johnblommers 2 - Macs are not more expensive then PCs Care to elaborate on that one? Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

08-30-2004, 01:32 AM	#11
AKcrab Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 233	Wheeeeeee!! Depends how much $$ your time is worth.

08-30-2004, 01:49 AM	#12
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	Re: Re: So you're a switcher? Originally posted by Tiny Turtle Care to elaborate on that one? It'll be my pleasure to elaborate. The amount of time I spend keeping my Macintoshes running smoothly is infinitesimal compared to the amount of time I have to spend just to keep my Windows PCs running at all, especially in the last few weeks, with all the accursed worms, viruses, malware, pop-up ware, and adware that can infect a Windows PC just by surfing the web. Time is money. I'd rather spend it doing productive things like learning new stuff, playing Halo, looking at Goldfish Aquarium or posting to this forum, than fixing Windows PCs. Purchase price of the Macintosh isn't out of line these days either given the quality of the product. I recently priced out the parts to buy a dual processor 64-bit PC and it was almost $2500. For a few hundred dollars more I can have the top of the line G5 from Apple. :heart: Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

08-30-2004, 04:07 AM	#13
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Sorry for destroying your thread, Jim. John, Know that I would absolutely love a G5 to call my own and envy my sweetie who spend her day at work using one. I however, must be surfing the web differently ("Surf Different"?) than you do as I don't (knock on wood) spend any time worth mentioning on removing worms, viruses or mal-/pop-up-/adware. I guess that mean a Mac still is the costlier alternative for me, eh? [friendly banter] Good thing you're happy playing Halo on the Radeon 9600XT of the "top-of-the-line G5". Your wife's "OLD gaming PC" has a more powerful 9800Pro card (I'm assuming her newer box has an even more powerful card). [/friendly banter] /TT Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

08-30-2004, 04:33 AM	#14
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	Jim forgive us ? Originally posted by Tiny Turtle Sorry for destroying your thread, Jim. John, Know that I would absolutely love a G5 to call my own and envy my sweetie who spend her day at work using one. I however, must be surfing the web differently ("Surf Different"?) than you do as I don't (knock on wood) spend any time worth mentioning on removing worms, viruses or mal-/pop-up-/adware. I guess that mean a Mac still is the costlier alternative for me, eh? [friendly banter] Good thing you're happy playing Halo on the Radeon 9600XT of the "top-of-the-line G5". Your wife's "OLD gaming PC" has a more powerful 9800Pro card (I'm assuming her newer box has an even more powerful card). [/friendly banter] /TT TT: Believe me I am delighted that you are enjoying your Internet surfing with no headaches! What's your secret? Maybe Microsoft did not need to spend $300Million on developing Service Pack 2. As for my beloved G5, it was purchased 8 months ago and it's not top of the line any more. It's dual PPC processors clock at a paltry 2Ghz while the top of the line G5 does so at 2.5Ghz. The stock ATI Radeon 9600 Pro in my G5 is NOT top of the llne either, I admit this freely and hope that Santa will bring me a better video card this Christmas. Perhaps an ATI Radion 9800 Pro Mac Edition with 256Meg VRAM, or perhaps a dual-headed NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL Card and a new Apple 30-inch display BTW I am unable to use the Radion 9800 Pro in the Mac because Macs and PC use a different type of BIOS. the Mac uses Open Firmware. Now I have heard there are flashers out there to change the video card's BIOS from PC to Mac and back again. More research is needed here. Even so, I can enjoy the Goldfish Aquarium screen saver on my G5 as a desktop background using about 10% of the processors. My blood presure is way lower now My wife enjoys her ATI Radeon 9800 Pro because I bought if for her :heart: so she'd get really good frame rates when playing EverQuest. You have to support your spouse! I will not tell you how long it took me to disable the onboard AGP video hardware on the Pavilion to get the ATI 9800 AGP card working It's not as easy to get dual monitors working on the PC as it is on the Mac. Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

08-30-2004, 04:55 AM	#15
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	If you don't buy a HP it would probably be a lot easier. I have no space for it now, but on my previous system I hooked up two monitors to the back of the computer and pressed [Power] on the front. Can't imagine it going any smoother, really. Just because there are problems with a PC doesn't mean all PC everyhere are plagued with them. Think of it like this. A lot of the problems with computers comes from beginners. Since there are so many total newbies sitting down in front of a PC compared to a Mac there is bound to be more issues with PC. Also, if everyone ran OsX, I assure you there would be oh-so-many more virii and adware messing up your system. It's not because it's impossible to create bad stuff for OsX. /Tiny Space Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

08-30-2004, 12:48 PM	#16
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	HP and Compaq both! Even some ex-HP folks I know would agree that part of the problem is the HP Pavilion architecture. It turns out the exact same issues apply to an old Compaq PC and a Microtel PC I own. In the case of the Compaq, the on-board video automatically disables itself when a new PCI graphics card is added in and there is just no way to run two monitors. With the Microtel, you have to pick either either the built-in AGP or add-on PCI video - in the BIOS of all places. Now I agree that all PCs are not the same, but it is MUCH easier to get a PC to work with multiple monitors when the vendor provides the video ports in the base model. Or when you add in a dual-headed video card like the ATI RAdeon 9800 Pro - then dual monitors is trivial. On any Macintosh I've ever used, when I have stuffed them full of video cards, they all simply worked - even the TV out ports work if you attach a video cam or a TV set to them. It's a crazy wonderful kind of plug and play. IMHO it is not good enough to blame the newbies for all the Windows malware and ease-of-use problems - these kinds of problems barely exist at all on Mac and Linux. And it's not a market share thing It's the Windows OS architecture that lies at the bottom of it. Sillyness like autologging in the Administrator user by default is the Windoows norm even after SP2. That gives malware full system access. Sillyness like Active X controls that can install software simply by visitng a web site. But enough about that - this is the Serene Screne board, so let me revert to a more relevant topic The whole multi-monitor issue came up again recently for me because of Goldfish Aquarium. You can allow GA to run on all monitors. It turns out the GA screen saver architecture runs all video monitors at rate of the slowest monitor. However if you clone copies of the GA application you can run each one on a monitor and they all run independently. Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

08-30-2004, 04:25 PM	#17
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Using HP, Compaq, Packard Bell, and eMachines to try to argue why Windows is inferior to Mac is like trying to use the Chevy Nova and Ford Pinto to argue why nobody should buy any American cars. A properly built Windows 2000 PC has the same exact stability as a G4 running Mac OS X. I agree that the ActiveX/Spyware garbage is entirely Microsoft's fault, but by using a better e-mail client and web browser, these problems can almost entirely be avoided. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

08-30-2004, 04:57 PM	#18
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	What can we do? Originally posted by feldon28 Using HP, Compaq, Packard Bell, and eMachines to try to argue why Windows is inferior to Mac is like trying to use the Chevy Nova and Ford Pinto to argue why nobody should buy any American cars. A properly built Windows 2000 PC has the same exact stability as a G4 running Mac OS X. I agree that the ActiveX/Spyware garbage is entirely Microsoft's fault, but by using a better e-mail client and web browser, these problems can almost entirely be avoided. There are two issues on our friendly table: (1) A well-designed PC works better with Windows (or Linux for that matter). The challenge is to find which PC is well-designed. We agree there are low-end or low-cost version of PCs that are a BUGGER to upgrade and expand, and we listed HP, Compaq, Packard Bell, Microtel, and eMacines. That does reflect on computers in general and on Windows in particular, by association. Given how many PCs sold are below the $1000 mark, I shudder to think about upgrading any of them. A macintosh is an example of a well-designed computer. Curiously you won't find a new Mac priced much under $1000. (2) The casual user, newbie, etc, uses IE because it's there. I agree we all would be better off using FireFox or Mozilla for our surfing and email needs. But the regular windows user isn't going to have the wherewithal to switch. And in corporate America the IT department dictates what employees surf with and email with. And some websites are written such that ONLY IE will work with them. This makes my hair stand on end! "The problem is choice" - Neo Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.

08-30-2004, 05:06 PM	#19
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	You can now build an excellent, stable PC for <$1000. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

08-30-2004, 05:48 PM	#20
johnblommers The Architect Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 756	We agree once again ... Yes, all of my very good PC-loving friends have encouraged me to toss out all of my old PC hardware and just go build one from new parts. Building PCs is a good experience, but I basically took a bunch of on-hand PCs and took the best parts out of them to do this. The point of building a computer is to learn stuff. I am not interested in a sub $1000 piece of hardware however, for little will be learned. I want a machine with a dual processor motherboard able to support 64-bit AMD CPUs. It needs a kicking video card, a gigabit ethernet card, firewire, optical audio, and it must be able to accomodate at least 8Gig of RAM. My DP G5 is such a machine of course, but to gain broad experience and learn at building the computer from scratch you have to go Intel-compatible. This is crazy high end stuff, I know, and it will cost about $2500 buy the parts to build it. I've speced out the parts already. At least the 64-bit Linux software is available in serveral distributions. But this is where the frontier lies. This is where it's really fun and interesting. This is how we learn. You learn at the cutting edge. The reason I am involved in the Serene Screen boards is because the Marine Aquarium and Goldfish Aquarium products are cutting-edge, which draws a very smart and outspoken crowd. I have learned quite a bit by engaging the good folks who participate in these forums. I hope the readership agrees. Reasons people don't watch Star Trek: 60% - It’s for nerds. 39% - The show’s stupid. 01% - My parents were killed by Klingons and it's still too painful.