Website Update

feldon34 · 06-14-2002, 05:59 PM

6/22/02 UPDATE: Website Online!

You may be interested to know that in the next few days, we'll be updating the fan website to have separate sections for the Freshwater Aquarium, version 1.1, and news of the coming Macintosh version.

I took a heck of a shortcut for the menu on the left using transparent gifs and other magic. I was able to do the entire menu WITH rollovers in 44kb. But already I'm hearing reports that it does not work on every browser. If I have to do it the old way, it will be closer to 80kb.

Enigma · 06-14-2002, 07:40 PM

Good job. Looks nice.

hpman77 · 06-15-2002, 04:23 AM

looks great feldon!

Shinsa · 06-15-2002, 11:55 AM

Looks fantastic. Good quality work!

Tiny Turtle · 06-15-2002, 02:02 PM

As The Rocketeer once put it:
I... ...like it!

Minor observations/nagging/whatever:
1. The six first link in the navbar to the left move a pixel up and to the right when highlighted. The last two don't (which IMHO looks better)
2. The "The Official Fan Website And Forum" text looks great.
3. The dividers between the three Aquarium flavours look nice but doesn't really cohere with the other elements of the page. Perhaps something with that same glow effect you use on the text would be better.
4. The smaller navbar graphics was a good idea. Looks much better, methinks. (I also note the edited Picasso...)
5. The Macintosh icon isn't up to your otherwise extremely high standard. I must admit that I've been sitting here for a while now, trying to figure out a better symbol, but can't come up with anything better (yet). Anyways, perhaps you could lose a few jaggies around the edges of it.

Looking forward to seeing it up instead of the old one.

/Calle

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 02:11 PM

Fixing the jaggies on the Apple logo did occur to me. I'll take another shot at it.

Maybe bubbles for the column dividers?

hayc59 · 06-15-2002, 02:35 PM

looks real nice!!
thank you...

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 03:10 PM

UPDATE: We went with the bubbles instead of orange lines

Not sure how I could do glowing lines...

Mountainmaster · 06-15-2002, 04:34 PM

Morgan,

But already I'm hearing reports that it does not work on every browser.

Isn't that an understatement? Netscape 6.22 completely freezes on the prototype page until I kill it with ctrl+alt+del. Please do it the old way.

Tiny Turtle · 06-15-2002, 04:37 PM

The bubbles are good. Easily identifyable with the SereneScreen concept.

As for the glowing lines – I was thinking along the lines (yes, pun intended) of the horizontal bar with the Percula below the bubbles. One of those with the same glow effect as on the text.

/TT

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 06:37 PM

How to put this tactfully....

It is very hard to write pages that are compatible with Netscape. I write my pages in raw HTML in Notepad.exe, not an editor. I'm not ready to give up just because Netscape, which represents 5% of web browsers, fails to render a vital tag. BUT, if Netscape is crashing, then I will take the necessary steps to resolve it, of course!

Going back to the "old way" would double the download time for my website. For 33.6k modem users this would be from 13 to 26 seconds.

The only unusual code I am using is this tag:

{td valign=top STYLE="background-image: url('nav/menuback.jpg'); background-repeat: no-repeat"}

Mountainmaster, can you try to load this page:

out-dated link

Ignore the fact that the coral background including the Lionfish repeats. I am simply testing something.

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 08:15 PM

Well, I just downloaded Netscape 6.2.3. (20MB?)

First I had to give AOL my e-mail and zip code so they can send me advertising.

Neither version of the prototype crashed the browser, but both versions have display problems. Netscape has the audacity to ignore the transparent space around my GIFs and bump the GIFs up againt the side. This is TOTALLY against the HTML4 spec.

I can probably work around this by having a black pixel in the upper left corner of each GIF but I'd rather not have to do that.

Oh, and all the fonts are the wrong size (a common Netscape problem).

Mountainmaster · 06-15-2002, 08:17 PM

The netscape page seems to load fine. I also retried the original one and it does not freeze everytime, but 2 out of 6 times.
In both pages I noticed something wrong with the mouseover. Or is it supposed to look like this?

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 08:23 PM

Did you notice that the green text items are not even in their soft black spots?

Netscape is ignoring the transparent GIFs the way I designed them and jamming them up against the upper left side. But then it's displaying the rollovers differently.

It's a total mess that does not exist in Internet Explorer.

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 08:29 PM

The black area is what the image size should be.

The grey area is what Netscape is re-interpreting the image size to be.

Mountainmaster · 06-15-2002, 08:40 PM

Strange, I thought Mozilla was built according to the html4 specs. Netscape 6 is still based on the Mozilla beta and it has some additional crap, which is why the download is that big. I wonder if Mozilla 1.0 (which will be the core of Netscape 7) corrects this?

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 09:02 PM

Ok, it's all "fixed". I had to work around it by putting a dark/black pixel in the upper left corner of each menu item. The pixel between Forum and Wishlist is plainly visible.

Interestingly, Netscape/Sun Java 2 just crashed/froze and somehow managed to "pause" IE. It's not until I went to Task Manager and forced Netscape6 to quit that IE unlocked.

There are also very ugly refresh/flicker problems on the rollovers. Considering I have a 1400 MHz machine, I can't imagine how this looks on a regular PC.

Can you test it out?

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 09:17 PM

After Netscape crashed and I reopened it, the rollovers no longer flicker.

Mountainmaster · 06-15-2002, 09:38 PM

The rollover images are in the right place now, but there seems to be a problem with preloading them and keeping them in cache. You probably load them locally, which would cause a flickering. But for me they redownload every time, even though my cache settings are "once per session". I never have this problem with other rollover scripts unless the cache is set to "every time...".

I also suspected that crash problem to be Java related, but the only Java I see is the counter and that one is also on the current index page...

---edit---
OK, I also restarted Netscape and guess what... The rollovers still don't preload but after first use they are kept in cache now.

feldon34 · 06-15-2002, 09:49 PM

Strange. I thought I had fixed the continually-reloading bug.

Ok, I just did another change. Try it again. By the way, you're welcome to come in the chatroom if you want to do this interactively.

Might want to clear your Internet Cache.

06-14-2002, 05:59 PM	#1
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Website Update 6/22/02 UPDATE: Website Online! You may be interested to know that in the next few days, we'll be updating the fan website to have separate sections for the Freshwater Aquarium, version 1.1, and news of the coming Macintosh version. I took a heck of a shortcut for the menu on the left using transparent gifs and other magic. I was able to do the entire menu WITH rollovers in 44kb. But already I'm hearing reports that it does not work on every browser. If I have to do it the old way, it will be closer to 80kb. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman Last edited by feldon34; 06-22-2002 at 07:50 PM.

06-14-2002, 07:40 PM	#2
Enigma Registered Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 435	Good job. Looks nice. ?

06-15-2002, 04:23 AM	#3
hpman77 Blue Angel Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Santander (Spain) Posts: 285	looks great feldon! .:: AMD Athlon XP 1700+ :: 512MB SDRAM :: Windows XP SP1 :: shappire ATI radeon 9600 PRO :: Soundblaster Live Player 5.1 :: Directx 9.0 :: (Always latest drivers for everything) ::.

06-15-2002, 11:55 AM	#4
Shinsa Registered Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 407	Looks fantastic. Good quality work! Bob "When you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." _______________________________________________

06-15-2002, 02:02 PM	#5
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	As The Rocketeer once put it: I... ...like it! Minor observations/nagging/whatever: 1. The six first link in the navbar to the left move a pixel up and to the right when highlighted. The last two don't (which IMHO looks better) 2. The "The Official Fan Website And Forum" text looks great. 3. The dividers between the three Aquarium flavours look nice but doesn't really cohere with the other elements of the page. Perhaps something with that same glow effect you use on the text would be better. 4. The smaller navbar graphics was a good idea. Looks much better, methinks. (I also note the edited Picasso...) 5. The Macintosh icon isn't up to your otherwise extremely high standard. I must admit that I've been sitting here for a while now, trying to figure out a better symbol, but can't come up with anything better (yet). Anyways, perhaps you could lose a few jaggies around the edges of it. Looking forward to seeing it up instead of the old one. /Calle Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

06-15-2002, 02:11 PM	#6
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Fixing the jaggies on the Apple logo did occur to me. I'll take another shot at it. Maybe bubbles for the column dividers? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-15-2002, 02:35 PM	#7
hayc59 VoodØØ Child™ Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 252	looks real nice!! thank you... ãrê ¥Øu êxpêriêncêÐ 9.11.01 Never Forget God Bless America

06-15-2002, 03:10 PM	#8
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	UPDATE: We went with the bubbles instead of orange lines Not sure how I could do glowing lines... "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman Last edited by feldon34; 06-22-2002 at 07:51 PM.

06-15-2002, 04:34 PM	#9
Mountainmaster Liopleurodon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: 3rd planet Posts: 314	Morgan, But already I'm hearing reports that it does not work on every browser. Isn't that an understatement? Netscape 6.22 completely freezes on the prototype page until I kill it with ctrl+alt+del. Please do it the old way.

06-15-2002, 04:37 PM	#10
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	The bubbles are good. Easily identifyable with the SereneScreen concept. As for the glowing lines – I was thinking along the lines (yes, pun intended) of the horizontal bar with the Percula below the bubbles. One of those with the same glow effect as on the text. /TT Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

06-15-2002, 06:37 PM	#11
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	How to put this tactfully.... It is very hard to write pages that are compatible with Netscape. I write my pages in raw HTML in Notepad.exe, not an editor. I'm not ready to give up just because Netscape, which represents 5% of web browsers, fails to render a vital tag. BUT, if Netscape is crashing, then I will take the necessary steps to resolve it, of course! Going back to the "old way" would double the download time for my website. For 33.6k modem users this would be from 13 to 26 seconds. The only unusual code I am using is this tag: {td valign=top STYLE="background-image: url('nav/menuback.jpg'); background-repeat: no-repeat"} Mountainmaster, can you try to load this page: out-dated link Ignore the fact that the coral background including the Lionfish repeats. I am simply testing something. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman Last edited by feldon34; 06-22-2002 at 07:52 PM.

06-15-2002, 08:15 PM	#12
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Well, I just downloaded Netscape 6.2.3. (20MB?) First I had to give AOL my e-mail and zip code so they can send me advertising. Neither version of the prototype crashed the browser, but both versions have display problems. Netscape has the audacity to ignore the transparent space around my GIFs and bump the GIFs up againt the side. This is TOTALLY against the HTML4 spec. I can probably work around this by having a black pixel in the upper left corner of each GIF but I'd rather not have to do that. Oh, and all the fonts are the wrong size (a common Netscape problem). "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman Last edited by feldon34; 06-15-2002 at 08:21 PM.

06-15-2002, 08:23 PM	#14
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Did you notice that the green text items are not even in their soft black spots? Netscape is ignoring the transparent GIFs the way I designed them and jamming them up against the upper left side. But then it's displaying the rollovers differently. It's a total mess that does not exist in Internet Explorer. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-15-2002, 08:40 PM	#16
Mountainmaster Liopleurodon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: 3rd planet Posts: 314	Strange, I thought Mozilla was built according to the html4 specs. Netscape 6 is still based on the Mozilla beta and it has some additional crap, which is why the download is that big. I wonder if Mozilla 1.0 (which will be the core of Netscape 7) corrects this?

06-15-2002, 09:02 PM	#17
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Ok, it's all "fixed". I had to work around it by putting a dark/black pixel in the upper left corner of each menu item. The pixel between Forum and Wishlist is plainly visible. Interestingly, Netscape/Sun Java 2 just crashed/froze and somehow managed to "pause" IE. It's not until I went to Task Manager and forced Netscape6 to quit that IE unlocked. There are also very ugly refresh/flicker problems on the rollovers. Considering I have a 1400 MHz machine, I can't imagine how this looks on a regular PC. Can you test it out? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman Last edited by feldon34; 06-22-2002 at 07:53 PM.

06-15-2002, 09:17 PM	#18
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	After Netscape crashed and I reopened it, the rollovers no longer flicker. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-15-2002, 09:38 PM	#19
Mountainmaster Liopleurodon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: 3rd planet Posts: 314	The rollover images are in the right place now, but there seems to be a problem with preloading them and keeping them in cache. You probably load them locally, which would cause a flickering. But for me they redownload every time, even though my cache settings are "once per session". I never have this problem with other rollover scripts unless the cache is set to "every time...". I also suspected that crash problem to be Java related, but the only Java I see is the counter and that one is also on the current index page... ---edit--- OK, I also restarted Netscape and guess what... The rollovers still don't preload but after first use they are kept in cache now. Last edited by Mountainmaster; 06-15-2002 at 09:48 PM.

06-15-2002, 09:49 PM	#20
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Strange. I thought I had fixed the continually-reloading bug. Ok, I just did another change. Try it again. By the way, you're welcome to come in the chatroom if you want to do this interactively. Might want to clear your Internet Cache. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman Last edited by feldon34; 06-22-2002 at 07:53 PM.