Sleep - what does it do? - Page 2

feldon34 · 05-18-2010, 11:36 PM

Personally I'd like it so the first time the Aquarium ran, it auto-adjusted the Sleep mode until the FPS was 55+. But I'm insane like that. Sleep of 10 is a good default.

AKcrab · 05-19-2010, 12:27 AM

Why is this not handled like it is in the mac version?
A "Limit frame rate" checkbox and a slider for the limit.

Jim Sachs · 05-19-2010, 01:11 AM

Is that how JimO handled it? I've never seen the Mac version.

Trying to shoot for a specific frame rate is not an exact science. Basically, after each frame you give up control of the microprocessor. You tell the system how long you'd like to sleep, but other programs could keep control as long as they see fit. The next time you get it back (if ever), you check to see how much time has elapsed. If It's not enough for the desired frame rate, you relinquish control again. A messy and imprecise business.

feldon34 · 05-19-2010, 01:59 AM

Jim,

You are already calculating the FPS. That's how you display it in the Stats line.

If this number is going over 65, you could step up the Sleep value every few seconds until that number is no longer being surpassed.

Rick Simon · 05-19-2010, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by feldon34:

If this number is going over 65, you could step up the Sleep value every few seconds until that number is no longer being surpassed.

Combined with an initial value of 10, this sounds like a good way to go so long as you don't try to decrease the sleep value in order to achieve 60fps. With two different video cards (1 NVidia and 1 ATI) on this older, single core processor system, driving 3 monitors with MA3 spread across all 3, I never get a frame rate of over 39fps. Any sleep setting from -1 to ~20 results in the same 39fps on all three screens. Higher sleep settings (up to 30) result in frame rates that drop down as low as 33fps.

This system runs the CPU at 100% while sleep is set <20 and ~50% with sleep set to 30. Needless to say, I just leave it at 30 to keep the CPU from running flat out for extended periods.

JohnWho · 05-19-2010, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Raising the number would make the Aquarium run slow and jerky on the older machines out there. It's better to allow the speed-demons to slow down than to require the older folks to do anything special just to see the program run normally.

That makes sense, Jim.

I

Jim Sachs · 05-19-2010, 07:09 AM

The FPS readout is the average fps. Trying to set it is a whole different issue. Back when I was using Limit Frame Rate, we'd get a lot of customers asking why they were getting a different frame rate than what they set. I'd have to explain that the program had to adjust the Sleep() function depending on how long the PREVIOUS frame took. If there was some way of looking into the future to see how long the NEXT frame will take, then you could set an accurate frame rate.

feldon34 · 05-19-2010, 07:52 AM

Surely people didn't think they were setting the ACTUAL frame rate but the MAXIMUM frame rate?

Are these people looking up at the sky and demanding certain weather?

Jim Sachs · 05-19-2010, 08:03 AM

Yes, those are the ones

Nicki · 05-19-2010, 09:36 AM

I agree with Jim. Those with high end graphics cards are much more likely to be savvy about frame rates and CPU usage than an average computer user. We're probably all tweakers here, but your average Joe buys a new computer and all they ever change is the desktop background (which is usually completely covered by shortcuts to expired trial software).

Dale · 05-19-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by feldon34:

Personally I'd like it so the first time the Aquarium ran, it auto-adjusted the Sleep mode until the FPS was 55+.

Just curious how you would determine the "first time the Aquarium ran"?

[Consider un-installations, installation of a new graphics card, new graphics card drivers, upgrade of the operating system, changing monitors (or monitor settings), etc. etc.)

Jim Sachs · 05-19-2010, 02:29 PM

At the moment, I define the "first time" as not having a Registry entry. The program sets everything to defaults, then reads the Registry. Any items there will replace the defaults.

Dale · 05-19-2010, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

At the moment, I define the "first time" as not having a Registry entry. The program sets everything to defaults, then reads the Registry. Any items there will replace the defaults.

Silly me - I had "assumed" that the installer initially set up the registry.

At any rate, even if it was adjusted "the first time", that wouldn't help much in case of things like changing the monitor, etc.

Jim Sachs · 05-19-2010, 08:31 PM

I've decided to go the Limit Frame Rate route.

cjmaddy · 05-20-2010, 02:53 AM

I seriously think you should go the Cromwell route.

I find the direction this forum is going in is very sad.

Wizwad · 05-20-2010, 05:19 AM

I think Dale is trying to turn Jim into a programmer. I also think it might be a bit late in the day for that.

feldon34 · 05-20-2010, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

I find the direction this forum is going in is very sad.

+1

Jav400 · 05-20-2010, 05:49 AM

+2

JohnWho · 05-20-2010, 06:59 AM

Well, at least now we are moving in a positive direction!

Jim Sachs · 05-20-2010, 09:01 AM

+3. Of course, I've been depressed ever since my income got cut by 90% a couple of years ago, leaving me to build my house all alone.

05-18-2010, 11:36 PM	#21
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	Personally I'd like it so the first time the Aquarium ran, it auto-adjusted the Sleep mode until the FPS was 55+. But I'm insane like that. Sleep of 10 is a good default. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

05-19-2010, 01:11 AM	#23
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	Is that how JimO handled it? I've never seen the Mac version. Trying to shoot for a specific frame rate is not an exact science. Basically, after each frame you give up control of the microprocessor. You tell the system how long you'd like to sleep, but other programs could keep control as long as they see fit. The next time you get it back (if ever), you check to see how much time has elapsed. If It's not enough for the desired frame rate, you relinquish control again. A messy and imprecise business. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-19-2010, 01:59 AM	#24
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	Jim, You are already calculating the FPS. That's how you display it in the Stats line. If this number is going over 65, you could step up the Sleep value every few seconds until that number is no longer being surpassed. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

05-19-2010, 06:46 AM	#26
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Raising the number would make the Aquarium run slow and jerky on the older machines out there. It's better to allow the speed-demons to slow down than to require the older folks to do anything special just to see the program run normally. That makes sense, Jim. I I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

05-19-2010, 07:09 AM	#27
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	The FPS readout is the average fps. Trying to set it is a whole different issue. Back when I was using Limit Frame Rate, we'd get a lot of customers asking why they were getting a different frame rate than what they set. I'd have to explain that the program had to adjust the Sleep() function depending on how long the PREVIOUS frame took. If there was some way of looking into the future to see how long the NEXT frame will take, then you could set an accurate frame rate. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-19-2010, 12:27 AM	#22
AKcrab Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 233	Why is this not handled like it is in the mac version? A "Limit frame rate" checkbox and a slider for the limit.

05-19-2010, 05:00 AM	#25
Rick Simon Registered Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 93	Originally posted by feldon34: If this number is going over 65, you could step up the Sleep value every few seconds until that number is no longer being surpassed. Combined with an initial value of 10, this sounds like a good way to go so long as you don't try to decrease the sleep value in order to achieve 60fps. With two different video cards (1 NVidia and 1 ATI) on this older, single core processor system, driving 3 monitors with MA3 spread across all 3, I never get a frame rate of over 39fps. Any sleep setting from -1 to ~20 results in the same 39fps on all three screens. Higher sleep settings (up to 30) result in frame rates that drop down as low as 33fps. This system runs the CPU at 100% while sleep is set <20 and ~50% with sleep set to 30. Needless to say, I just leave it at 30 to keep the CPU from running flat out for extended periods.

05-19-2010, 07:52 AM	#28
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	Surely people didn't think they were setting the ACTUAL frame rate but the MAXIMUM frame rate? Are these people looking up at the sky and demanding certain weather? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

05-19-2010, 08:03 AM	#29
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	Yes, those are the ones Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-19-2010, 09:36 AM	#30
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	I agree with Jim. Those with high end graphics cards are much more likely to be savvy about frame rates and CPU usage than an average computer user. We're probably all tweakers here, but your average Joe buys a new computer and all they ever change is the desktop background (which is usually completely covered by shortcuts to expired trial software). Run you clever boy. And remember...

05-19-2010, 01:25 PM	#31
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by feldon34: Personally I'd like it so the first time the Aquarium ran, it auto-adjusted the Sleep mode until the FPS was 55+. Just curious how you would determine the "first time the Aquarium ran"? [Consider un-installations, installation of a new graphics card, new graphics card drivers, upgrade of the operating system, changing monitors (or monitor settings), etc. etc.)

05-19-2010, 02:29 PM	#32
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	At the moment, I define the "first time" as not having a Registry entry. The program sets everything to defaults, then reads the Registry. Any items there will replace the defaults. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-19-2010, 03:49 PM	#33
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: At the moment, I define the "first time" as not having a Registry entry. The program sets everything to defaults, then reads the Registry. Any items there will replace the defaults. Silly me - I had "assumed" that the installer initially set up the registry. At any rate, even if it was adjusted "the first time", that wouldn't help much in case of things like changing the monitor, etc.

05-19-2010, 08:31 PM	#34
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	I've decided to go the Limit Frame Rate route. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-20-2010, 02:53 AM	#35
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	I seriously think you should go the Cromwell route. I find the direction this forum is going in is very sad.

05-20-2010, 05:19 AM	#36
Wizwad Only me... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 2,584	I think Dale is trying to turn Jim into a programmer. I also think it might be a bit late in the day for that. Mark ----------- Intel i7 12700K \| Aorus Z690 Pro \| Corsair DDR5 5600 32GB \| Asus Dual RTX3060ti 6GB v2 Mini OC \| Corsair RM850 Gold PSU \| 1TB NVMe M.2 WD Black SN850 \| 4TB Seagate BarraCuda HDD \| Corsair Airflow 5000D Case \| HP 32QHD 4K Monitor \| Windows 11 x64 Professional

05-20-2010, 05:46 AM	#37
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	Originally posted by cjmaddy: I find the direction this forum is going in is very sad. +1 "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

05-20-2010, 05:49 AM	#38
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	+2 Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

05-20-2010, 06:59 AM	#39
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Well, at least now we are moving in a positive direction! I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

05-20-2010, 09:01 AM	#40
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	+3. Of course, I've been depressed ever since my income got cut by 90% a couple of years ago, leaving me to build my house all alone. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium