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Old 04-07-2008, 02:03 PM   #1521
debavocet
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Originally posted by patscarr:
Debbie, nobody is demanding anything. And if they did, it would fall upon deaf hears. Jim bows to no one. Some forum members were merely kind enough to make some suggestions on how they thought would improve or make MA3 better, and Jim must have agreed with them or he wouldn't spend his time incorporating it into MA3. Jim has mentioned before that MA3 is very close to leaving the Alpha testing stage and going into the Beta testing (or going public) stage. It wont be long now before everyone can enjoy his work.  
Sorry if I ruffled a few feathers. I hadn't mean't that anyone was impolite or tried to pressure anything on Jim, only that some have asked a lot from him. From my angle, the music option looked like a complex and frustrating add-on that an aquarium doesn't need. But from Jim's angle, if if most of the work has been done, he believes it will improve marketability and he wants the music, obviously the decision is his. Either way I'll buy MA 3. So if I appear to steam off now and then, don't take it too seriously.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:13 PM   #1522
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Post Johann Pachelbel's Canon

Sorry this is a bit tardy, but I found this nice webpage with lots of different versions of the composition in midi form, and I thought either you could have fun listening to them, or submit yours (with appropriate website links, heck it's free advertising) when you're done composing!
http://www.helander.se/stefan/pachelbel/

I'd have to say the best one is the one submitted by Alyssa Hughes, a 13 year old girl! It is very beautiful. Another very nice one is "canonind", it is soothing and very long.

Some of them are quite.. interesting, like "radcanon"... turn down your volume!!

Thanks again for EVERYTHING!
Rebecca
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:18 PM   #1523
Jim Sachs
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Yes, a bit tardy, but thanks for the effort.

Today I sent a version of MA3 with an experimental MIDI soundtrack to the Alpha Testers. They hated it. This is not much of a surprise, since I tried it on my laptop just before I sent it, and I hated it, too. I had composed it on my main machine, which evidentally has some pretty good MIDI voices, because it sounded rich, mellow, and realistic. But on the laptop it was tinny, raspy, and unrealistic.

So now I have to make a decision regarding which direction to proceed. I'm not quite ready to give up on MIDI, since the byte-savings are off-the-chart compared to any other format.

Morgan suggested that I package my own MIDI samples with the program, instead of relying on whatever oddball sounds everyone's sound card comes with. This would probably work, but I'll have to research how much space the samples would take up. That's what I did when I wrote the music for Defender of the Crown II, the CDTV and CD32 opening fanfares, CD32 "Dinosaur Demo", and a bunch of other stuff. (Some of that is still out there on YouTube, but with severely muffled sound, jerky timing, and pixilated graphics.) But in those days (wow - it's over 20 years ago!) I wasn't concerned about filesize, since I was streaming the audio off a CD.

So, it's a question of:
1. Scrapping the whole idea of music.
2. Keeping the User Playlist, but with no default track.
3. Rolling up my sleeves and really taking the MIDI thing seriously.
4. Going with a much shorter MP3 file as the default.
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:41 AM   #1524
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Hi All,
As you can see I'm a newbie here but have been one of Jim Sachs 'lurkers' for many's a while. Probably the excitement of MA3 is getting to me as well. All you great folks have become my weekly/daily dose of 'soap opera'. (I know, 'get a life')

Mr Sachs, your Marine Aquarium is superb. We are not worthy.

Anyway, to the point. On the sound issue. How many of us listen continuously to the same piece? so either the music is constantly off, or we use or own playlist anyway. Probably any bundled music would become redundant very quickly. Why not save all those bundled bytes and just use the 'bubbles' sound as the default?

Looking forward to the next 'episode' already.

P.S. my apologies for the picture. I'm not really a gangster. (I got thrown out the Mafia for cruelty. lol.)
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:45 AM   #1525
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
So, it's a question of:
1. Scrapping the whole idea of music.
2. Keeping the User Playlist, but with no default track.
3. Rolling up my sleeves and really taking the MIDI thing seriously.
4. Going with a much shorter MP3 file as the default.  
Be sure to let us know when you have the answer.
I'd vote for 3 or 4.
Patrick
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:03 AM   #1526
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I'll go to my storage rental tomorrow and see if I can find my old copy of Cakewalk.
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:47 AM   #1527
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Maybe you can just have a tinker round with your laptop and find which sounds are least likely to sound bad. Harp and piano seem most realistic across the different sorts of systems, i.e. with low as well as high end audio cards / samples, so maybe a piece with just those voices would be OK?
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Old 04-12-2008, 02:56 AM   #1528
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How to get a beta copy to test it

Dear Jim.

I am Ramez, an old user of MA since its early days, I have a few posts here but was off the forum for a few years !!
Was wondering how I could get a beta version of the 3 version to check.
I was the one who suggested to have some live interaction with the fish in the tank, like feeding, fish growing, mating, etc..

Please let me know how i can have it, my email is rarikoka@hotmail.com

Thanks a lot !

Ramez
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:49 AM   #1529
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Yes, I agree with that. - Synthesized string voices can sometimes sound dire.


Edit: I am referring to what Mark said...

Last edited by cjmaddy; 04-13-2008 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 04-12-2008, 08:56 AM   #1530
Jim Sachs
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I may have to resort to that, but I've always hated the sound of the piano, and would like to avoid it if possible.

Wiz - you are right about working with the laptop. That is the machine that I need to use when creating the music. I've always tried to use the lowest-common-denominator machine when developing the Aquarium. My theory is that if it looks good on my computer, it will look REALLY good on everyone else's. I had become so accustomed to the weak graphics capabilities, that it never occurred to me that the sound system might be stronger than most. After all, it's just an on-the-motherboard sound chip playing through the monitor's built-in speakers. Yet, I can listen to the same 4-minute piece of MIDI music all day without it getting on my nerves. In fact, I miss it when it's not there. Now the challenge is to get it to sound the same on everyone else's computer.
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:05 AM   #1531
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Quick question, Jim. Will the ability to feed the fish be introduced during Alpha testing, Beta testing or later?
Patrick
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:09 AM   #1532
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Probably later.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:02 PM   #1533
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The combination of sound and vision is always an exciting pair. Listening to the same song over and over again can be a distracting thing. I hope there is a way to put sound off (bubbles on off course). Or give users a choice to load music (mp3) from a certain folder that an be filled with mp3-files to there own choice.

Some years ago I found a certin midi file with a piano piece on it that was so compelling to me because of the beauty of it (on my mac it sounded really stunning). I once let it hear to a friend (who was a pianoplayer): he said it was a great piece but a lousy electronic sound. There was no life in it. Everybody listens in a different way to music. Midi, very low in k, many times sounding wrong on pc's.

Then I also would like to mention that I have never seen an aquarium with sound capabilities in real life.

Be very careful to not spoil the reality'sensation' of your digital fishtank.

On the other hand: compelling music together with fish that swim in line with the song can be a very nice extra feature.

I love the mr. Sachs aquarium and I am very much looking forward to a new version that might fit on my 2560 x 1600 pixels widescreen monitor. With or without music. And will wait till the mac-version is ready.

Will there be an Iphone version as well? Steve jobs started the iPhone thing with a clownfish on the display as a wallpaper. Maybe that was a hint :-)
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:35 PM   #1534
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Sometimes it's hard to keep track of what I've said here in the public forum, as opposed to the private Alpha-Testing section. In case there's any confusion, the default MIDI sountrack in MA3 will probably be Pachelbel's Canon. It can be turned off with a simple tap of the "M" key. The user will be able to build a playlist of his own music, choosing from MP3, AIFF, and WMA files.

The fish will NOT swim in beat to the music.

The PDA and cel phone translations of the Aquarium have always been the domain of Andrew Beery. I don't have much contact with him. He may already be working on an iPhone version.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:44 PM   #1535
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Setup:
I think Jim mentioned that the Crystal will make it into MA3 and that it will be able to be turned off and another piece of coral or something will take its place.

What about a third option? A small picture frame that can display pictures from a folder on the users hard drive?
Patrick
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:01 PM   #1536
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Originally posted by patscarr:
What about a third option? A small picture frame that can display pictures from a folder on the users hard drive?  
Music can be a positive addition to the feeling you get when watching.
I probably will put on some Enya or Mike Oldfield music while enjoying the aquarium. This was a really great idea.

Photos however will surely distract the feeling you get from the under water world. I would strongly disagree with a feature like that. What would be next? A way to watch TV inside the crystal?
Yodelking - För god att kolsyra!
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:14 PM   #1537
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...or tiny computer screen...which is running the Aquarium.
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:14 AM   #1538
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Smile Trying to please everyone! music - feeding fish - too much to expect

[quote=Jim Sachs]------the default MIDI sountrack in MA3 will probably be Pachelbel's Canon. It can be turned off with a simple tap of the "M" key. The user will be able to build a playlist of his own music, choosing from MP3, AIFF, and WMA files.

It was back in 2002 that I started using this wonderful screen saver, a life saver late at night after work stress, just sit back, take off the reading glasses and watch the fish swimming randomly, no anticipated or predetermined paths, no set music to eventually jar the nerves, no matter how enjoyable in the 1st place. (As Shakespeare wrote, " If music be the food of love, play on for surfeiting the appetite may so sicken and die “) Unless there are methods to change the tracks or even stop any music, but still let the natural sound of the water (bubbles) be audible. In light of this I am encouraged by your comment quote above, Jim, that we will have control on any unwanted sounds. There is another important aspect as well, I have felt in the past that if one requires ambient music at the same time one can place a Music CD in the Windows Media Player and minimize that and the SS or MAT will still operate Ok. I see one objection to that in an earlier post; someone wanted the music to commence automatically as the screen saver came on. NOW some years ago when I was still employed, and in a busy office and computers were relatively new, the boss had one and of course he had found a Screen saver! Jungle with frogs birds and whatever, when he was called away to a meeting or absent awhile, that confounded screen saver would start up to the dismay of the general staff within earshot and we had to tolerate the disturbance whilst sorting out problems etc.
For my 2 pence halfpenny input why not let the users of your existing programs determine what music they will play, if any, and simply change the CD when they " sicken " of that particular piece.
I do think that we would appreciate more your efforts re - the newer add-ons in the way of the long awaited fish and creatures that had been so much disused over the last few years, I must say that I am looking forward to that immensely. I am surprised on my visit to the forum today to find all these additional " requirements" of your eager fans and do think that some are overextending your time on new and better things.
Many Thanks for your ealier efforts, once again , and I am so happy that they still work 100% in the later programs and machines ( MS XP )
pAUL sHALLOW Sydney Australia
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Old 04-13-2008, 05:56 AM   #1539
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Of all the screen savers I've bought or downloaded as trials over the years, there is only one I can think of that didn't get its 'sound' killed within the first minute or so. - I have tried to reason why this should be! ... And the only conclusion I can come up with, is that if the fish movement, (or whatever the subject of the SS is), doesn't gel with the sound/music then one or other gets so monotonous that we soon tire of it, and thus can loose interest in the product itself. - Jim, after all the justified success of MA over the years, why at this stage spoil it by adding 'music'?

In addition to the above exception, there is only one other SS that IMO benefits from the adding of some music, and that. as I have commented on before, is the Manta Ray tank in the Sharks SS. - The background music used being The Blue Danube, which is successful because it fits in with the fish movement so perfectly. As the same music did, for the same reason, when it was used in the film, 2001 A Space Odyssey.

Don't do it, Jim. - If we want music, we can easily add it ourselves, and without copyright worries!
Can you imagine going into a store and having banks of computers endlessly churning out Pachelbel's Canon? - It wouldn't do much for Pachelbel - and I don't think it would help Jim Sachs much either! ... But it will never happen, - the sound would be switched off, (hopefully!), - So why have it in the first place? - The default bubble sound is far more natural.

Shall we have a poll to see what others think....

Should MA3 have default music? - Default music, or, Default bubbles. - (Your own music would be an option with either).
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Old 04-13-2008, 06:09 AM   #1540
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Angry

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
...or tiny computer screen...which is running the Aquarium.  
LOL!
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