F1 should be the Help key

Dale · 05-17-2010, 12:40 PM

F1 should be the help key.

[This may have been discussed and shot down before, but "search" won't search for "F1" (too short) or for "help" (too common) - so just point us to an applicable previous thread]

Jim Sachs · 05-17-2010, 01:23 PM

I would really dread coding all those pages of instructions into the program, and dealing with all the translations.

Rick Simon · 05-17-2010, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I would really dread coding all those pages of instructions into the program, and dealing with all the translations.

There's a Help file??? All I've found is the Readme file. In any case, I wouldn't see where you would have to include them within the MA3 executable. I would assume that an F1 keypress would close MA3 and open the Help file (in whatever form it exists in). Since MA3 is a full screen application, I don't think it unreasonable that accessing a full blown Help system would require it.

JohnWho · 05-17-2010, 02:42 PM

While "F1" may be the traditional "help" key in most applications, Marine Aquarium is clearly not a traditional application.

Pressing the "space bar" while it is running brings up quite a lot of information that, in my opinion, makes the requirement for a dedicated "help" somewhat unnecessary although I will agree it would have been nice and created a more elegant product. On the other hand, from the screen saver perspective, I've not seen too many screen savers that have "F1" key help capability. They mostly allow all settings to be done through the Windows screen saver "settings" button. What "help" they provide within that function varies from screen saver to screen saver.

More 2 cents.

Dale · 05-17-2010, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by JohnWho:

... On the other hand, from the screen saver perspective, I've not seen too many screen savers that have "F1" key help capability.

You haven't seen too many screen savers that have 19 keyboard shortcuts, either.

But Marine Aquarium 3 isn't a "screen saver". It's a simulation of a marine aquarium.

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I would really dread coding all those pages of instructions into the program, and dealing with all the translations.

Help files are "NEVER" coded into a program. (..never say never...). The rational strategy is to "link" to a file. Lots of ways to do that - flat file, HTML, .hlp file (WinHlp), etc. So, you wouldn't be coding anything (except a "link").

Jim, I'm presuming that somebody else translates the readme.txt file (or doesn't translate it, if the I18N versions ship with English readme). In any case, translating wouldn't be your task, either.

As Rick pointed out, just "displaying" the existing readme.txt file should do the job.

Or, if SereneScreen want's to centrally maintain the help (so that it can be easily updated between releases, etc.), then the same mechanism as the "Visit Web Site" button would work nicely.

...or several other ways would work.

But if there's a good technical reason for F1 being "Next Background color", then just chalk this up as another "wild hair".

JohnWho · 05-17-2010, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

You haven't seen too many screen savers that have 19 keyboard shortcuts, either.

But Marine Aquarium 3 isn't a "screen saver". It's a simulation of a marine aquarium.

That is why I phrased it the way I did - the screen saver capability of MA3 works pretty much just like other SS's do except it intercepts certain key strokes rather than have them stop the SS function as some may.

While running as an "app", it allows those same key strokes (or a mouse "right click"), to change what is displayed.

Regarding whether it is a screen saver or not, with the recent (through 11e) changes, what exactly doesn't it do to qualify as a screen saver? It appears to me it now meets all the perceived requirements to be a screen saver.

Dale · 05-17-2010, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by JohnWho:

Regarding whether it is a screen saver or not, with the recent (through 11e) changes, what exactly doesn't it do to qualify as a screen saver? It appears to me it now meets all the perceived requirements to be a screen saver.

I believe it is officially "defined" as a simulation. (Jim will correct me if I'm wrong). SereneScreen calls it an "aquarium program".

You'll find this interesting.

https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...d.php?p=117606

Yes, it seems to also meet all of the perceived requirements to be a screen saver. (I'm not aware of any "actual" requirements).

Many (windows based) simulators define the F1 key to display help.

JohnWho · 05-17-2010, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

I believe it is officially "defined" as a simulation. (Jim will correct me if I'm wrong). SereneScreen calls it an "aquarium program".

Yep.

I'm just sayin'...

feldon34 · 05-18-2010, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by Dale:

Help files are "NEVER" coded into a program.

And yet in the other thread, you asked how to access the "Help file" (readme.txt) from within the program. Which is it?

Jim Sachs · 05-18-2010, 01:40 AM

Readme, help, info, etc. are just not things that I'm able to work up any enthusiasm for. I've never had any dental work done, but from other people's description, I'd guess they feel the same way about root canals as I do about this type of work.

JohnWho · 05-18-2010, 06:49 AM

Well, in that case, perhaps one way to insure all users look at the "readme.txt" file would be to re-name it to "Donotreadme.txt"!

JohnWho · 05-18-2010, 07:00 AM

Seriously, once all the current changes are complete, and "3.1" is ready to go, the "readme.txt" file should be updated to reflect the changes.

I'm willing to help with that, Jim, if it will ease some of your pain.

Dale · 05-18-2010, 08:22 AM

I don't think this debate is worth having, but:

Originally posted by feldon34:

And yet in the other thread, you asked how to access the "Help file" (readme.txt) from within the program. Which is it?

I asked that because you stated:

Originally posted by feldon34:

It's in the Help file, ...

And I do not consider a help file to be the same as a readme.txt file. I apologize for not assuming that you were referring to the readme.txt, when you said "help file".

Yes, the two threads are related - in fact what I asked in the "other thread" prompted me to wonder how MA3 could easily provide helpful information, accessible by a user who was familiar with Windows conventions.

That's why I subsequently started this thread. Trying to be helpful to users. I didn't expect to be attacked for perceived inconsistencies.

Bottom lines:

1. If "help" that is easily accessible, by pressing the F1 key, would not be helpful, then let's move on.

2. If it would be helpful, but isn't going to happen, then let's move on.

Jim Sachs · 05-18-2010, 08:37 AM

If anyone even suspects that a debate is not worth having, then they are certainly right.

Dale · 05-18-2010, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

If anyone even suspects that a debate is not worth having, then they are certainly right.

Yes.

So, what's your decision about the F1 key?

Jim Sachs · 05-18-2010, 10:36 AM

F1 switches to the next background color set.

JohnWho · 05-18-2010, 03:10 PM

So, Jim, do you need help with the "readme" or does someone else already take care of it?

Jim Sachs · 05-18-2010, 04:57 PM

No one that I know of is taking care of it.

JohnWho · 05-18-2010, 05:02 PM

OK - PM to follow.

Dale · 05-18-2010, 08:22 PM

Would it be practical (and appropriate) to have a button on the MA3 Settings panel, that simply points to
C:\Program Files\SereneScreen\Marine Aquarium 3\readme.txt

The drawback would be if the user decides to install it elsewhere, of course.

05-17-2010, 12:40 PM	#1
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	F1 should be the Help key F1 should be the help key. [This may have been discussed and shot down before, but "search" won't search for "F1" (too short) or for "help" (too common) - so just point us to an applicable previous thread]

05-17-2010, 01:23 PM	#2
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	I would really dread coding all those pages of instructions into the program, and dealing with all the translations. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-18-2010, 01:23 AM	#9
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Dale: Help files are "NEVER" coded into a program. And yet in the other thread, you asked how to access the "Help file" (readme.txt) from within the program. Which is it? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

05-18-2010, 01:40 AM	#10
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Readme, help, info, etc. are just not things that I'm able to work up any enthusiasm for. I've never had any dental work done, but from other people's description, I'd guess they feel the same way about root canals as I do about this type of work. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-18-2010, 08:37 AM	#14
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	If anyone even suspects that a debate is not worth having, then they are certainly right. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-17-2010, 02:09 PM	#3
Rick Simon Registered Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 93	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I would really dread coding all those pages of instructions into the program, and dealing with all the translations. There's a Help file??? All I've found is the Readme file. In any case, I wouldn't see where you would have to include them within the MA3 executable. I would assume that an F1 keypress would close MA3 and open the Help file (in whatever form it exists in). Since MA3 is a full screen application, I don't think it unreasonable that accessing a full blown Help system would require it.

05-17-2010, 02:42 PM	#4
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	While "F1" may be the traditional "help" key in most applications, Marine Aquarium is clearly not a traditional application. Pressing the "space bar" while it is running brings up quite a lot of information that, in my opinion, makes the requirement for a dedicated "help" somewhat unnecessary although I will agree it would have been nice and created a more elegant product. On the other hand, from the screen saver perspective, I've not seen too many screen savers that have "F1" key help capability. They mostly allow all settings to be done through the Windows screen saver "settings" button. What "help" they provide within that function varies from screen saver to screen saver. More 2 cents.

05-17-2010, 03:07 PM	#5
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JohnWho: ... On the other hand, from the screen saver perspective, I've not seen too many screen savers that have "F1" key help capability. You haven't seen too many screen savers that have 19 keyboard shortcuts, either. But Marine Aquarium 3 isn't a "screen saver". It's a simulation of a marine aquarium. Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I would really dread coding all those pages of instructions into the program, and dealing with all the translations. Help files are "NEVER" coded into a program. (..never say never...). The rational strategy is to "link" to a file. Lots of ways to do that - flat file, HTML, .hlp file (WinHlp), etc. So, you wouldn't be coding anything (except a "link"). Jim, I'm presuming that somebody else translates the readme.txt file (or doesn't translate it, if the I18N versions ship with English readme). In any case, translating wouldn't be your task, either. As Rick pointed out, just "displaying" the existing readme.txt file should do the job. Or, if SereneScreen want's to centrally maintain the help (so that it can be easily updated between releases, etc.), then the same mechanism as the "Visit Web Site" button would work nicely. ...or several other ways would work. But if there's a good technical reason for F1 being "Next Background color", then just chalk this up as another "wild hair".

05-17-2010, 03:19 PM	#6
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by Dale: You haven't seen too many screen savers that have 19 keyboard shortcuts, either. But Marine Aquarium 3 isn't a "screen saver". It's a simulation of a marine aquarium. That is why I phrased it the way I did - the screen saver capability of MA3 works pretty much just like other SS's do except it intercepts certain key strokes rather than have them stop the SS function as some may. While running as an "app", it allows those same key strokes (or a mouse "right click"), to change what is displayed. Regarding whether it is a screen saver or not, with the recent (through 11e) changes, what exactly doesn't it do to qualify as a screen saver? It appears to me it now meets all the perceived requirements to be a screen saver.

05-17-2010, 04:24 PM	#7
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JohnWho: Regarding whether it is a screen saver or not, with the recent (through 11e) changes, what exactly doesn't it do to qualify as a screen saver? It appears to me it now meets all the perceived requirements to be a screen saver. I believe it is officially "defined" as a simulation. (Jim will correct me if I'm wrong). SereneScreen calls it an "aquarium program". You'll find this interesting. https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...d.php?p=117606 Yes, it seems to also meet all of the perceived requirements to be a screen saver. (I'm not aware of any "actual" requirements). Many (windows based) simulators define the F1 key to display help.

05-17-2010, 04:33 PM	#8
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by Dale: I believe it is officially "defined" as a simulation. (Jim will correct me if I'm wrong). SereneScreen calls it an "aquarium program". Yep. I'm just sayin'...

05-18-2010, 06:49 AM	#11
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Well, in that case, perhaps one way to insure all users look at the "readme.txt" file would be to re-name it to "Donotreadme.txt"!

05-18-2010, 07:00 AM	#12
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Seriously, once all the current changes are complete, and "3.1" is ready to go, the "readme.txt" file should be updated to reflect the changes. I'm willing to help with that, Jim, if it will ease some of your pain.

05-18-2010, 08:22 AM	#13
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	I don't think this debate is worth having, but: Originally posted by feldon34: And yet in the other thread, you asked how to access the "Help file" (readme.txt) from within the program. Which is it? I asked that because you stated: Originally posted by feldon34: It's in the Help file, ... And I do not consider a help file to be the same as a readme.txt file. I apologize for not assuming that you were referring to the readme.txt, when you said "help file". Yes, the two threads are related - in fact what I asked in the "other thread" prompted me to wonder how MA3 could easily provide helpful information, accessible by a user who was familiar with Windows conventions. That's why I subsequently started this thread. Trying to be helpful to users. I didn't expect to be attacked for perceived inconsistencies. Bottom lines: 1. If "help" that is easily accessible, by pressing the F1 key, would not be helpful, then let's move on. 2. If it would be helpful, but isn't going to happen, then let's move on.

05-18-2010, 09:46 AM	#15
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: If anyone even suspects that a debate is not worth having, then they are certainly right. Yes. So, what's your decision about the F1 key?

05-18-2010, 10:36 AM	#16
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	F1 switches to the next background color set. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-18-2010, 03:10 PM	#17
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	So, Jim, do you need help with the "readme" or does someone else already take care of it?

05-18-2010, 04:57 PM	#18
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	No one that I know of is taking care of it. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

05-18-2010, 05:02 PM	#19
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	OK - PM to follow.

05-18-2010, 08:22 PM	#20
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Would it be practical (and appropriate) to have a button on the MA3 Settings panel, that simply points to C:\Program Files\SereneScreen\Marine Aquarium 3\readme.txt The drawback would be if the user decides to install it elsewhere, of course.