Number of fish

[Rich]

I dont know if this has ever been bought up in discussion before .
but why is there only a maximum of 7 fish able to be displayed only?

why not more?
is it to much use of resources by a graphics card?
is it the way the screensaver was written?

any answer would be appreciated?

[Jim Sachs]

This has been covered many times, but here it is again -

There are 3 reasons for the 7 fish limit.

1. Realism. A real tank of this size could not support any more fish. Even 7 is actually too many.

2. Visual. More than 7 simply looks overcrowded.

3. Technical. The collision-avoidance routines have a very hard time keeping more than 6 fish from passing through each other. Even 7 is really pushing it.

[handimannbob]

lol, i get a kick out of the fish-avoidance schemes. it sometimes turns the tank into a herd going in one direction

[Rich]

thanks Jim for your comment
much appreciated

[Bollig]

While i can completely respect Jim's want for realism, with a large resolution setup, the tank looks rather empty. Personally, i would prefer more than seven fish - even if it is not realistic.

As per the technical aspects of the collision-avoidance routines, i say let the fish occasionally run into each other. While i understand that as a general rule it would be wise to keep the number of fish to a minimum, i can imagine that there would be some people (including myself) who would appreciate a small setting/patch that would allow more than 7 fish. If it's possible, i'd like to make that choice myself.

Other than that small issue I have, bravo on the aquarium - yours is DEFINATELY the best one on the market - nothing even compares!

cheers.

[Jim Sachs]

You say "run into each other" like they are real objects which would somehow bounce off each other. These are just pixels lighting up, so they would pass through each other, totally destroying the illusion of reality.

[Louis]

Let's say.....

1 : 1 = Current resolution (screen width) : Sachs' Standard
1 = Sach's Standard = 7 fishes

eg:
Current resolution is 1024x768 pixels
Sachs' Standard occupied 1024 pixels
( The width of coral's region = 1024 pixels and
the fish should be proportional to width of coral's region )

User Defined:
1 : 0.5
0.5 = User Defined = 7 / 0.5 = 14 fishes

eg:
Current resolution is 1024x768 pixels
Sachs' Standard occupied 1024*0.5 = 512 pixels
( The width of coral's region = 512 pixels and
the fish should be proportional to width of coral's region )

The tank would look bigger and more fishes could be put in.

[feldon34]

Either coral would be HUGE compared to the fish, or you would have huge gaps on each side with nothing.

[Louis]

Either coral would be HUGE compared to the fish

: the size of the fish is 1:1 proportional to the width of the coral region
if width of the coral region = 1024 and the fish's length = 10
then change to ...........
eg. width of the coral region = 512 and the fish's length = 5


or you would have huge gaps on each side with nothing.

: Yes, it would have huge gaps on each side with nothing but only
have gravel.

Remember, there is a minimum value to be set and no one will
expect to set it to 1 : 0.000001 .

[Jim Sachs]

Basically, you are talking about moving the camera farther away, so that everything in the tank is smaller. That's not an option for 2 reasons.

I've carefully selected the sizes for the fish to make them as clear as possible, with a 1:1 texel/pixel ratio. Any bigger or smaller, and you would see the problems which all other 3D programs exhibit, aliasing or blurring.

Moving the camera back shrinks the background. Where does the extra material come from? The coral on the sides would have sharp vertical edges where it used to end.

[feldon34]

I'm happy with 7 fish.
And I'll be happy with 10-11 fish with the 3D background.

[Socrates]

The wide screen version allows 8.

I always set my regular ratio tank to 6, and my widescreen version to 7. Otherwise I feel it looks crowded to me for salt water.

Freshwater might be different. Some of those fish are real small.

[Jim Sachs]

3 small schooling fish will count as 1.

[GreenHsiF]

In the future will there be an option if you pick a couple smaller fish that it will count as one?
Will there be turtles in a upcoming future?
Can you give us a hint of what future fish you plan on adding?

[Jim Sachs]

I've heard of short attention spans, but this has to be a record. As I just said, 3 small schooling fish will count as 1.

Yes, turtles will be in one of the Creature Paks.

Many of the future fish will probably be taken from the Wishlist on the Fan Site.

[Bollig]

Thanks for your reply Jim - much appreciated. It is very obvious that you have put countless hours of effort into making the aquarium as perfect as possible. I mean no offence in asking these questions.

a couple of last thngs:

what is this 3d background feldon27 is referring to? and secondly, wuld it nevertheless be *possible* to increase the number of fish, all other arguements aside?

[Tiny Turtle]

I got that one, Jim.

Bollig,
Currentlly the coral is just a static image with some clever "slits" in it allowing the fish to swim behind and in front of the coral. Jim aims to create coral built in full 3D, just like the fish are today. Not only would this look great and alow for coral movement, but also it would make collision avoidance much easier. This is really a quite time consuming job as it's really complex, but given enough time Jim will baffle us once more. More fish would be possible although more demanding on the video card (as will the 3D background) but if Jim wanted he could put a hundered more fish in there.

/Tiny 3D

[Jim Sachs]

Yeah - what he said.

The only thing I might add is that the collision detection/prediction is EXTREMELY difficult when you have these fish moving around with a will of their own. Remember, these are not real fish - they're not even real objects. They are simply dots lighting up on a computer screen. Keeping them from running into each other is entirely my job - they have no natural tendency to not pass through each other. The instant that happens, the illusion of reality is broken. 7 fish is already pushing the limits of my current "keep-apart" algorithm.

[feldon34]

Originally posted by Bollig
what is this 3d background feldon27 is referring to?

Think moving/swaying coral, opening and closing clams, and an anemone for the clownfish to live in.

and secondly, wuld it nevertheless be *possible* to increase the number of fish, all other arguements aside?

You can't get the arguments aside. The arguments are why it's not happening. 7 for current bg, 8 for widescreen monitors, ~10 for dual monitors.

[Bollig]

Okay, thanks guys, your time answering me is very much appreciated.

*i understand*

Bollig