Fish Picker for MA2

Mountainmaster · 03-22-2003, 05:34 PM

Anyone care to test it? It only supports MA2, not MA1.1. So do not overwrite the previous picker if you want to keep using it for Widescreen 1.1.
http://home.wanadoo.nl/sfinx98/progs/picker_ma2.zip

EddieWan · 03-22-2003, 05:40 PM

I've heard of this before but haven't ever tried it, but will try it now

EddieWan · 03-22-2003, 05:42 PM

Seems to work nice for me, though still testing it out.

handimannbob · 03-22-2003, 06:44 PM

hi, mm.....that was quick.....i'll have to check it out also...

Vish · 03-22-2003, 07:48 PM

When you start the aquarium from MM_Picker, it starts just fine, but when you escape from the SS and come back to the MM_Picker, you see the "stop" buttin in there, even though the SS is "stopped" by escaping....

I have noticed it with the privious version also

not a biggie I guess...but thought I should let you know...

By the way thanks for the new version. I am big fan of this. Especially the star fish placement...good job....keep it up...and keep the faith...

Mountainmaster · 03-22-2003, 08:01 PM

Vish, it should revert to "start" in a second or so. And make the "windowed mode" selection available again. Doesn't it do that?

Quick Death · 03-22-2003, 08:17 PM

can you explain the Advanced Settings: Blankspace and calculate normals?

feldon34 · 03-22-2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Quick Death
can you explain the Advanced Settings: Blankspace and calculate normals?

Well, these are not really Fish Picker questions, but hidden features which have been in the Aquarium since 99K (if not earlier). The reason they are hidden will soon become apparent...

"Blankspace" is the registry name for "animation stabization", or Ctrl-S.

Early on in the development of the Aquarium, some users reported stuttering/skipping in the Animation. Further, it was discovered that pressing S to bring up the Fps/Resolution Display miraculously stabilized the animation. This was especially apparent on many earlier GeForce and TnT Riva cards.

However, many people expressed a desire for smooth animation AND the ability to hide the Fps/Resolution Display. The solution was Ctrl-S, which does the same thing as S but draws it in either the background color, or in a transparent font. However it does it, this has been a lifesaver and has been the first recommendation to any customer who has 'stuttering' animation.

If you want to toggle Ctrl-S permanently, you must press Ctrl-S, SPACE, SPACE to tell the Aquarium to write that change to the registry (which writes in "Blankspace").

Marine Aquarium 2 adds a layer of complexity to Ctrl-S. In all prior versions of the Aquarium, the CPU has "raced" at 100% usage even if no other task needed that CPU time. You can imagine that this generates a lot of heat on a 2000 MHz PC, especially since only 3-10% CPU is really needed to generate 60fps of smooth animation!!!

This "100% racing" has also been the cause of various lockups. And was a serious problem for laptop users, especially those with loud fans that only kick in when the CPU is running very warm.

Fortunately, that is all in the past, as MA2 does everything it can to use only the % of CPU necessary to generate 60fps (or whatever setting you choose) of smooth animation.

So how does this relate to Ctrl-S?

The neccessity of Ctrl-S seems to have been reduced, and more importantly, S and Ctrl-S race the CPU at 95-100% even in MA2 !

In short, Ctrl-S has always been and should continue to be a "hidden" feature needed only if there is instability in the fish animation.

Now what was the other one you asked about?

calculate normals

Maybe I should let our resident expert on CalcNormals, Cliff Addy, answer this. Here's a brief:

With CalcNormals turned off, assumptions about the amount of light hitting each part of each fish are made. With CalcNormals turned on, no assumptions are made. Even the slightest turn of a fin can either catch a glint of light or suddenly be in shadow. Actually, I think the effect can be a tad too strong at times.

By default, the Aquarium comes with CalcNormals turned *off* to maximize smoothness/performance.

Press N to experiment.

Ralph · 03-23-2003, 08:47 AM

Thanks for the background

but;

In short, Ctrl-S has always been and should continue to be a "hidden" feature needed only if there is instability in the fish animation.

This somehow implies that it will run at the reduced CPU rate automatically. This has not been my case and I find an inconsistancy in the CPU used. From a low of 10~15% to a normal of ~40%. Perhaps the installation of V2 was influenced by copies of previous versions. However I installed V2 at work, (just to see what it looks like on a 19" LCD) a new installation and it runs at 100%...... And overheats the card to produce stuttering fish and bubbles in approximatly 10 minutes of running

(a 32Meg GeForce something in a P-4 specifically purchased to run Autocad).
I will try the Ctrl-S routine on Monday to see if I can reduce the CPU demand..... or remove it

handimannbob · 03-23-2003, 10:52 AM

works fine for me mm. with all the new fish now, that "custom settings" is great.

cjmaddy · 03-23-2003, 11:49 AM

I could never presume to tell the real experts about CalcNormals -

Fanatic, - maybe, ..... Expert? - never! ...... (I don't really understand what is going on! - but I DO like the effect!)

Do experiment with the n key though, - and check out these threads:-

https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...ht=CalcNormals
https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...s&pagenumber=5

....... and in particular, this one:-

https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...s&pagenumber=3

Or just do a search on the forum for CalcNormals!

..................... May the CalcNormals be with you!

feldon34 · 03-23-2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Ralph
[b]Thanks for the background

but;

This somehow implies that it will run at the reduced CPU rate automatically.

There is nothing automatic about Ctrl-S. It is a hidden, manual toggle which ships in the OFF position.

Originally posted by Ralph
I find an inconsistancy in the CPU used. From a low of 10~15% to a normal of ~40%.

It's inconsistant. DirectX is nothing if not INconsistant. But I am happy if it is under 35%.

Originally posted by Ralph
Perhaps the installation of V2 was influenced by copies of previous versions.

Different branches of the registry.

Originally posted by Ralph
However I installed V2 at work, (just to see what it looks like on a 19" LCD) a new installation and it runs at 100%...... And overheats the card to produce stuttering fish and bubbles in approximatly 10 minutes of running

Set the Aquarium to 16-bit color, limit to 58fps.

If this does not clear up the problem, start killing off background tasks one by one.

Originally posted by Ralph
I will try the Ctrl-S routine on Monday to see if I can reduce the CPU demand..... or remove it

I would be shocked if Ctrl-S did not keep CPU usage to 100% unless you have inadvertently turned it on and pressing Ctrl-S is, in fact, disabling it.

riz · 03-23-2003, 02:20 PM

Hey Mountainmaster,

I have a quick feature request regarding your FishPicker program… I was wondering if it was possible to implement a ‘randomize’ custom settings option… this way every hour (or whatever) I can have it randomly pick from all my custom profiles, which would allow me to have a different background color of my choice, different set of fish of my choice etc at timed intervals…

Basically I've wanted a background randomizer since day one… automatic lighting doesn’t do it for me seeing how it passes right though the cool blue dark background (and never stopping) on the way to the black background… plus, without the ‘never’ for specific fish option, randomizing fish with your program still loads up a few of my least favorite fish…

Thanks for your consideration and the already giant steps forward in customization that Serenescreen Aquarium currently and unfortunately lacks,

riz

Mountainmaster · 03-23-2003, 04:08 PM

New version 4.0.1 is up at the link above. Just minor changes that most of you won't even notice. For instance, I changed the name Wimplefish to Longfin Bannerfish to match MA2. And I also prepared Fish Picker for the newly planned MA2 filename without the spaces, see this thread: https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...&threadid=1399

riz, good idea to continue this discussion on a public level. This is the answer I sent you in a private mail:

A similar feature has been requested in the past, a cycle custom settings option rather than randomize them. I have not looked into that yet but I think both of these are possible. It is definitely planned for a future version, don't hold your breath though.

My reason for that last remark is not that I am unwilling to implement this feature, merely that I think it will be difficult and time consuming.

feldon34 · 03-24-2003, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Mountainmaster
My reason for that last remark is not that I am unwilling to implement this feature, merely that I think it will be difficult and time consuming.

Well it's a question of how the Aquarium responds to the Registry being updated mid-stream by an outside program. I would imagine not particularly well.

Mountainmaster · 03-24-2003, 12:32 PM

The Aquarium ignores most (if not all) outside registry changes as long as it runs. On exit it writes its current settings back.
To make this work the Aquarium needs to be closed and restarted by Fish Picker. So it would not look smooth at all.
Then there may be timing problems if the aquarium is still writing to the registry while it exits and fish Picker starts to write new settings at the same time. Ouch!

cjmaddy · 03-25-2003, 05:46 AM

Due to zip problems (now sorted!), since my C drive disaster, I have only just installed this new v4.0.1 Fish Picker!

Nice to see it's introduction for MA2!

.......... Everything is working fine so far!

(If there is anyone out there who has NOT used Mountainmasters previous progs' ..... I can strongly recommend them!
I have been a big fan of Fish Picker since it started, and I am still amazed that Prolific have not picked up on this style of customisation. To me, it has a number of much nicer features!)

EVERRET · 03-25-2003, 10:34 PM

Mountainmaster, I can't thank you enough for making this update for MA2. If anyone still has any doubts about this program, don't, try it and you won't want to use the aquarium without it. Thank you !

feldon34 · 03-26-2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by cjmaddy
(If there is anyone out there who has NOT used Mountainmasters previous progs' ..... I can strongly recommend them!
I have been a big fan of Fish Picker since it started, and I am still amazed that Prolific have not picked up on this style of customisation. To me, it has a number of much nicer features!) [/b]

It should tell you guys something that Mountainmaster's program is now being seriously looked at when selecting features to add next to the Aquarium...

Be aware/warned that the Settings panel in the Marine Aquarium, MAT, FlagPride FoNA, etc. all run on the same codebase and that new settings are rolled out in whichever product is next in the pipeline. So we might see new Settings controls in another product first!

handimannbob · 03-26-2003, 03:45 PM

mm......will picker work in v.k and v.l.....

03-22-2003, 05:34 PM	#1
Mountainmaster Liopleurodon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: 3rd planet Posts: 314	Fish Picker for MA2 Anyone care to test it? It only supports MA2, not MA1.1. So do not overwrite the previous picker if you want to keep using it for Widescreen 1.1. http://home.wanadoo.nl/sfinx98/progs/picker_ma2.zip

03-22-2003, 05:40 PM	#2
EddieWan JediMaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tallahasse, Florida Posts: 183	I've heard of this before but haven't ever tried it, but will try it now If it ain't broke, fix it till it is!

03-22-2003, 05:42 PM	#3
EddieWan JediMaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tallahasse, Florida Posts: 183	Seems to work nice for me, though still testing it out. If it ain't broke, fix it till it is!

03-22-2003, 06:44 PM	#4
handimannbob what's up doc ? Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: millbrae,ca Posts: 410	hi, mm.....that was quick.....i'll have to check it out also... bob

03-22-2003, 07:48 PM	#5
Vish Registered Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: California Posts: 103	When you start the aquarium from MM_Picker, it starts just fine, but when you escape from the SS and come back to the MM_Picker, you see the "stop" buttin in there, even though the SS is "stopped" by escaping.... I have noticed it with the privious version also not a biggie I guess...but thought I should let you know... By the way thanks for the new version. I am big fan of this. Especially the star fish placement...good job....keep it up...and keep the faith... --Vish

03-22-2003, 08:01 PM	#6
Mountainmaster Liopleurodon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: 3rd planet Posts: 314	Vish, it should revert to "start" in a second or so. And make the "windowed mode" selection available again. Doesn't it do that?

03-22-2003, 08:17 PM	#7
Quick Death Registered Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York Posts: 106	can you explain the Advanced Settings: Blankspace and calculate normals?

03-22-2003, 09:34 PM	#8
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Quick Death can you explain the Advanced Settings: Blankspace and calculate normals? Well, these are not really Fish Picker questions, but hidden features which have been in the Aquarium since 99K (if not earlier). The reason they are hidden will soon become apparent... "Blankspace" is the registry name for "animation stabization", or Ctrl-S. Early on in the development of the Aquarium, some users reported stuttering/skipping in the Animation. Further, it was discovered that pressing S to bring up the Fps/Resolution Display miraculously stabilized the animation. This was especially apparent on many earlier GeForce and TnT Riva cards. However, many people expressed a desire for smooth animation AND the ability to hide the Fps/Resolution Display. The solution was Ctrl-S, which does the same thing as S but draws it in either the background color, or in a transparent font. However it does it, this has been a lifesaver and has been the first recommendation to any customer who has 'stuttering' animation. If you want to toggle Ctrl-S permanently, you must press Ctrl-S, SPACE, SPACE to tell the Aquarium to write that change to the registry (which writes in "Blankspace"). Marine Aquarium 2 adds a layer of complexity to Ctrl-S. In all prior versions of the Aquarium, the CPU has "raced" at 100% usage even if no other task needed that CPU time. You can imagine that this generates a lot of heat on a 2000 MHz PC, especially since only 3-10% CPU is really needed to generate 60fps of smooth animation!!! This "100% racing" has also been the cause of various lockups. And was a serious problem for laptop users, especially those with loud fans that only kick in when the CPU is running very warm. Fortunately, that is all in the past, as MA2 does everything it can to use only the % of CPU necessary to generate 60fps (or whatever setting you choose) of smooth animation. So how does this relate to Ctrl-S? The neccessity of Ctrl-S seems to have been reduced, and more importantly, S and Ctrl-S race the CPU at 95-100% even in MA2 ! In short, Ctrl-S has always been and should continue to be a "hidden" feature needed only if there is instability in the fish animation. Now what was the other one you asked about? calculate normals Maybe I should let our resident expert on CalcNormals, Cliff Addy, answer this. Here's a brief: With CalcNormals turned off, assumptions about the amount of light hitting each part of each fish are made. With CalcNormals turned on, no assumptions are made. Even the slightest turn of a fin can either catch a glint of light or suddenly be in shadow. Actually, I think the effect can be a tad too strong at times. By default, the Aquarium comes with CalcNormals turned off to maximize smoothness/performance. Press N to experiment. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-23-2003, 08:47 AM	#9
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,441	Thanks but still confused Thanks for the background but; In short, Ctrl-S has always been and should continue to be a "hidden" feature needed only if there is instability in the fish animation. This somehow implies that it will run at the reduced CPU rate automatically. This has not been my case and I find an inconsistancy in the CPU used. From a low of 10~15% to a normal of ~40%. Perhaps the installation of V2 was influenced by copies of previous versions. However I installed V2 at work, (just to see what it looks like on a 19" LCD) a new installation and it runs at 100%...... And overheats the card to produce stuttering fish and bubbles in approximatly 10 minutes of running (a 32Meg GeForce something in a P-4 specifically purchased to run Autocad). I will try the Ctrl-S routine on Monday to see if I can reduce the CPU demand..... or remove it

03-23-2003, 10:52 AM	#10
handimannbob what's up doc ? Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: millbrae,ca Posts: 410	works fine for me mm. with all the new fish now, that "custom settings" is great. bob

03-23-2003, 11:49 AM	#11
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	CalcNormals I could never presume to tell the real experts about CalcNormals - Fanatic, - maybe, ..... Expert? - never! ...... (I don't really understand what is going on! - but I DO like the effect!) Do experiment with the n key though, - and check out these threads:- https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...ht=CalcNormals https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...s&pagenumber=5 ....... and in particular, this one:- https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...s&pagenumber=3 Or just do a search on the forum for CalcNormals! ..................... May the CalcNormals be with you!

03-23-2003, 01:51 PM	#12
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Re: Thanks but still confused Originally posted by Ralph [b]Thanks for the background but; This somehow implies that it will run at the reduced CPU rate automatically. There is nothing automatic about Ctrl-S. It is a hidden, manual toggle which ships in the OFF position. Originally posted by Ralph I find an inconsistancy in the CPU used. From a low of 10~15% to a normal of ~40%. It's inconsistant. DirectX is nothing if not INconsistant. But I am happy if it is under 35%. Originally posted by Ralph Perhaps the installation of V2 was influenced by copies of previous versions. Different branches of the registry. Originally posted by Ralph However I installed V2 at work, (just to see what it looks like on a 19" LCD) a new installation and it runs at 100%...... And overheats the card to produce stuttering fish and bubbles in approximatly 10 minutes of running Set the Aquarium to 16-bit color, limit to 58fps. If this does not clear up the problem, start killing off background tasks one by one. Originally posted by Ralph I will try the Ctrl-S routine on Monday to see if I can reduce the CPU demand..... or remove it I would be shocked if Ctrl-S did not keep CPU usage to 100% unless you have inadvertently turned it on and pressing Ctrl-S is, in fact, disabling it. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-23-2003, 02:20 PM	#13
riz Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 30	Hey Mountainmaster, I have a quick feature request regarding your FishPicker program… I was wondering if it was possible to implement a ‘randomize’ custom settings option… this way every hour (or whatever) I can have it randomly pick from all my custom profiles, which would allow me to have a different background color of my choice, different set of fish of my choice etc at timed intervals… Basically I've wanted a background randomizer since day one… automatic lighting doesn’t do it for me seeing how it passes right though the cool blue dark background (and never stopping) on the way to the black background… plus, without the ‘never’ for specific fish option, randomizing fish with your program still loads up a few of my least favorite fish… Thanks for your consideration and the already giant steps forward in customization that Serenescreen Aquarium currently and unfortunately lacks, riz

03-23-2003, 04:08 PM	#14
Mountainmaster Liopleurodon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: 3rd planet Posts: 314	New version 4.0.1 is up at the link above. Just minor changes that most of you won't even notice. For instance, I changed the name Wimplefish to Longfin Bannerfish to match MA2. And I also prepared Fish Picker for the newly planned MA2 filename without the spaces, see this thread: https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...&threadid=1399 riz, good idea to continue this discussion on a public level. This is the answer I sent you in a private mail: A similar feature has been requested in the past, a cycle custom settings option rather than randomize them. I have not looked into that yet but I think both of these are possible. It is definitely planned for a future version, don't hold your breath though. My reason for that last remark is not that I am unwilling to implement this feature, merely that I think it will be difficult and time consuming.

03-24-2003, 06:07 AM	#15
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Mountainmaster My reason for that last remark is not that I am unwilling to implement this feature, merely that I think it will be difficult and time consuming. Well it's a question of how the Aquarium responds to the Registry being updated mid-stream by an outside program. I would imagine not particularly well. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-24-2003, 12:32 PM	#16
Mountainmaster Liopleurodon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: 3rd planet Posts: 314	The Aquarium ignores most (if not all) outside registry changes as long as it runs. On exit it writes its current settings back. To make this work the Aquarium needs to be closed and restarted by Fish Picker. So it would not look smooth at all. Then there may be timing problems if the aquarium is still writing to the registry while it exits and fish Picker starts to write new settings at the same time. Ouch!

03-25-2003, 05:46 AM	#17
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Due to zip problems (now sorted!), since my C drive disaster, I have only just installed this new v4.0.1 Fish Picker! Nice to see it's introduction for MA2! .......... Everything is working fine so far! (If there is anyone out there who has NOT used Mountainmasters previous progs' ..... I can strongly recommend them! I have been a big fan of Fish Picker since it started, and I am still amazed that Prolific have not picked up on this style of customisation. To me, it has a number of much nicer features!)

03-25-2003, 10:34 PM	#18
EVERRET Leopard Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: california Posts: 115	FISHPICKER MA2 Mountainmaster, I can't thank you enough for making this update for MA2. If anyone still has any doubts about this program, don't, try it and you won't want to use the aquarium without it. Thank you !

03-26-2003, 11:28 AM	#19
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by cjmaddy (If there is anyone out there who has NOT used Mountainmasters previous progs' ..... I can strongly recommend them! I have been a big fan of Fish Picker since it started, and I am still amazed that Prolific have not picked up on this style of customisation. To me, it has a number of much nicer features!) [/b] It should tell you guys something that Mountainmaster's program is now being seriously looked at when selecting features to add next to the Aquarium... Be aware/warned that the Settings panel in the Marine Aquarium, MAT, FlagPride FoNA, etc. all run on the same codebase and that new settings are rolled out in whichever product is next in the pipeline. So we might see new Settings controls in another product first! "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-26-2003, 03:45 PM	#20
handimannbob what's up doc ? Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: millbrae,ca Posts: 410	mm......will picker work in v.k and v.l..... bob