Beta 11m discussion

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 05:14 PM

Yikes!

Limit Frame Rate at 60 still fluctuates, but only slightly.

Turn LFR off and I get an over 500 + fps that is fluctuating wildly!

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 05:19 PM

Up and Down arrows for volume seems to work well though.

Adding it to readme now.

Needs to be added to "Keyboard Shortcuts" list in "About" screen.

Jim Sachs · 06-12-2010, 05:29 PM

The sound on my computer is not currently working, so I can't test the volume control. The way it's supposed to work is:

The up-down arrows adjust the volume of whatever sound is ON, but doesn't change the volume of whatever is OFF. So if Music is on, but not the bubble sound, the music volume will be affected. Next time the bubble sound is turned on, it will be at its last volume.

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 05:32 PM

OK, I'll test that.

Also, the centering on the color picker looks perfect.

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 05:36 PM

Volume control works for either bubbles or music or both if they are running at the same time.

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 05:37 PM

Am I really getting an over 500 fps or is it a reporting error?

Jim Sachs · 06-12-2010, 05:58 PM

Should be correct.

How is the rate-of-change for the volume control? Too slow, too fast?

Nicki · 06-12-2010, 06:08 PM

The volume control works a little slowly, and it causes skips in the playback of CanonGuitar for me. It could be two to two and a half times quicker, if it's meant as a quick way to drop the sound for a phone call. Alternatively, a mute feature if you want to keep the fade out/in really gradual?

John Who, I'm getting a higher reported unlimited frame rate too- max 92 fps. Not really a big change in this case. This is the other of my two identical laptops that always gets a higher frame rate (different drivers, software etc).

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 06:09 PM

I think it (volume control) is OK.

From mid-way to high seems to take about 3-4 seconds of holding down the "up" arrow. You can easily hear the volume change.

Jim Sachs · 06-12-2010, 06:21 PM

With pre-MA3 versions, the machine was allowed to run unfettered when Limit Frame Rate was off, and that's the way it will work here. In the early days, the program was used extensively as a bench-mark test for 3D hardware, (it was nicknamed Fishmark).

Default will be ON, with a limit of 90. Users are free to turn it off or adjust the limit up to 125. It's very likely that the new 3D stereovision cards will need to take control of the framerate, so I need to let them do their thing.

Nicki · 06-12-2010, 06:22 PM

I guess we need more feedback on the volume control. It's taking about 20s from max to min and there's definitely distortion.

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

With pre-MA3 versions, the machine was allowed to run unfettered when Limit Frame Rate was off, and that's the way it will work here. In the early days, the program was used extensively as a bench-mark test for 3D hardware, (it was nicknamed Fishmark).

Default will be ON, with a limit of 90. Users are free to turn it off or adjust the limit up to 125. It's very likely that the new 3D stereovision cards will need to take control of the framerate, so I need to let them do their thing.

Slider goes from 30 to 120 now.

Default "On", limit "90" seems reasonable.

Will "CTRL-R" also now set to these settings?

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 06:37 PM

I'm getting about 8 seconds from low to high on the volume and not hearing any distortion.

Nicki · 06-12-2010, 06:44 PM

Okay, more testing. Only getting the distortion with limit frame rate set to off. Cracking sounds and stuttering in the playback. Fade is about 8s quicker with limit frame rate on.

Jim Sachs · 06-12-2010, 06:47 PM

Yes, with no limit on the framerate, the building and displaying of frames takes nearly 100% of the CPU, so everything else (volume controls, other programs, etc.) will have very few clock cycles to work with.

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 06:49 PM

Don't really like running at 500 + fps, but I just tried what Nicki described and I'm still not getting any distortion.

Guess we need other folks to chime in.

JohnWho · 06-12-2010, 06:51 PM

Jim -

will a multi-core CPU make a difference?

Maybe frame rate on one core and volume and other programs on other cores?

Also, could be a difference between W32 and W64?

Maybe a difference between XP, Vista, and W7?

Jim Sachs · 06-12-2010, 07:00 PM

Maybe on all those. I have no idea.

Dale · 06-12-2010, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Nicki:

I guess we need more feedback on the volume control. It's taking about 20s from max to min and there's definitely distortion.

Please try this test:
Start with the music volume slider near the middle: MA3 running, of course.

Increase volume quite a bit with up-arrow.
Press CTRL-R
Press up-arrow.

[Or down-arrow, CTRL-R, down-arrow]

Nicki · 06-12-2010, 07:19 PM

Okay Dale, I'm getting some weird stuff. The up and down arrows are operating different controls depending on which boxes I have checked. At first, they were working backwards for volume control when I checked and unchecked limit frame rate, then they started to affect frame rate only while the frame rate box was unchecked, and then they started to control pan speed.

Pressing CTRL-R set the frame rate back to unlimited and slider to 120, but the music volume did not reset until I hit the up or down button.

06-12-2010, 05:14 PM	#1
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Beta 11m discussion Yikes! Limit Frame Rate at 60 still fluctuates, but only slightly. Turn LFR off and I get an over 500 + fps that is fluctuating wildly! I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 05:19 PM	#2
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Up and Down arrows for volume seems to work well though. Adding it to readme now. Needs to be added to "Keyboard Shortcuts" list in "About" screen. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 05:29 PM	#3
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	The sound on my computer is not currently working, so I can't test the volume control. The way it's supposed to work is: The up-down arrows adjust the volume of whatever sound is ON, but doesn't change the volume of whatever is OFF. So if Music is on, but not the bubble sound, the music volume will be affected. Next time the bubble sound is turned on, it will be at its last volume. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-12-2010, 05:32 PM	#4
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	OK, I'll test that. Also, the centering on the color picker looks perfect. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 05:36 PM	#5
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Volume control works for either bubbles or music or both if they are running at the same time. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 05:37 PM	#6
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Am I really getting an over 500 fps or is it a reporting error? I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 05:58 PM	#7
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Should be correct. How is the rate-of-change for the volume control? Too slow, too fast? Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-12-2010, 06:08 PM	#8
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	The volume control works a little slowly, and it causes skips in the playback of CanonGuitar for me. It could be two to two and a half times quicker, if it's meant as a quick way to drop the sound for a phone call. Alternatively, a mute feature if you want to keep the fade out/in really gradual? John Who, I'm getting a higher reported unlimited frame rate too- max 92 fps. Not really a big change in this case. This is the other of my two identical laptops that always gets a higher frame rate (different drivers, software etc). Run you clever boy. And remember...

06-12-2010, 06:09 PM	#9
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	I think it (volume control) is OK. From mid-way to high seems to take about 3-4 seconds of holding down the "up" arrow. You can easily hear the volume change. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 06:21 PM	#10
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	With pre-MA3 versions, the machine was allowed to run unfettered when Limit Frame Rate was off, and that's the way it will work here. In the early days, the program was used extensively as a bench-mark test for 3D hardware, (it was nicknamed Fishmark). Default will be ON, with a limit of 90. Users are free to turn it off or adjust the limit up to 125. It's very likely that the new 3D stereovision cards will need to take control of the framerate, so I need to let them do their thing. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-12-2010, 06:22 PM	#11
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	I guess we need more feedback on the volume control. It's taking about 20s from max to min and there's definitely distortion. Run you clever boy. And remember...

06-12-2010, 06:32 PM	#12
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: With pre-MA3 versions, the machine was allowed to run unfettered when Limit Frame Rate was off, and that's the way it will work here. In the early days, the program was used extensively as a bench-mark test for 3D hardware, (it was nicknamed Fishmark). Default will be ON, with a limit of 90. Users are free to turn it off or adjust the limit up to 125. It's very likely that the new 3D stereovision cards will need to take control of the framerate, so I need to let them do their thing. Slider goes from 30 to 120 now. Default "On", limit "90" seems reasonable. Will "CTRL-R" also now set to these settings? I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 06:37 PM	#13
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	I'm getting about 8 seconds from low to high on the volume and not hearing any distortion. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 06:44 PM	#14
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	Okay, more testing. Only getting the distortion with limit frame rate set to off. Cracking sounds and stuttering in the playback. Fade is about 8s quicker with limit frame rate on. Run you clever boy. And remember...

06-12-2010, 06:47 PM	#15
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Yes, with no limit on the framerate, the building and displaying of frames takes nearly 100% of the CPU, so everything else (volume controls, other programs, etc.) will have very few clock cycles to work with. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-12-2010, 06:49 PM	#16
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Don't really like running at 500 + fps, but I just tried what Nicki described and I'm still not getting any distortion. Guess we need other folks to chime in. I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 06:51 PM	#17
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Jim - will a multi-core CPU make a difference? Maybe frame rate on one core and volume and other programs on other cores? Also, could be a difference between W32 and W64? Maybe a difference between XP, Vista, and W7? I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

06-12-2010, 07:00 PM	#18
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Maybe on all those. I have no idea. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-12-2010, 07:04 PM	#19
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Nicki: I guess we need more feedback on the volume control. It's taking about 20s from max to min and there's definitely distortion. Please try this test: Start with the music volume slider near the middle: MA3 running, of course. Increase volume quite a bit with up-arrow. Press CTRL-R Press up-arrow. [Or down-arrow, CTRL-R, down-arrow]

06-12-2010, 07:19 PM	#20
Nicki Sugar Plum Fairy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,267	Okay Dale, I'm getting some weird stuff. The up and down arrows are operating different controls depending on which boxes I have checked. At first, they were working backwards for volume control when I checked and unchecked limit frame rate, then they started to affect frame rate only while the frame rate box was unchecked, and then they started to control pan speed. Pressing CTRL-R set the frame rate back to unlimited and slider to 120, but the music volume did not reset until I hit the up or down button. Run you clever boy. And remember...