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Old 11-14-2008, 01:21 PM   #21
Dale
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Originally posted by skypx:
cjmaddy, you're correct. I didn't even notice the jaggies..... It looks so much better now. Thanks.  
First - please note that I never said you were using two monitors. Somebody else assumed that.

Now, did the change (above) affect the banding?

Otherwise, I still think you should check with nVidia support. The folks here are good, but we aren't nVidia. So, talking here about problems that are (fairly certainly) nVidia's, doesn't help fix them.

[If the code is (arguably) "standard", and many video cards/drivers/monitors display it OK, and some don't - perhaps.................]

Bottom line: I believe that an appropriate question for this forum to ask is: "What did the vendor say?"
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:43 PM   #22
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I'm still concerned about the fact that this started with Beta5. It's conceivable that I did something to bring on these symptoms, even if they do only show up on one machine.
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:51 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Dale:
First - please note that I never said you were using two monitors. Somebody else assumed that.

Now, did the change (above) affect the banding?

Otherwise, I still think you should check with nVidia support. The folks here are good, but we aren't nVidia. So, talking here about problems that are (fairly certainly) nVidia's, doesn't help fix them.

[If the code is (arguably) "standard", and many video cards/drivers/monitors display it OK, and some don't - perhaps.................]

Bottom line: I believe that an appropriate question for this forum to ask is: "What did the vendor say?"  
Dale I appreciate your help in trying to get this figured out. I will try to be detailed with my answers so hopefully I won't miss anything.

1. please note that I never said you were using two monitors. Somebody else assumed that.
Yes I understand, I was quoting Edgar's response.

2. did the change (above) affect the banding?
Increasing anisotropic filtering and antialiasing? No change.

I'm not the "expert" but I really don't think it's the monitor. I would have noticed abnormalities long ago, plus my laptop has the same effect.


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Old 11-14-2008, 03:13 PM   #24
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
I'm still concerned about the fact that this started with Beta5. It's conceivable that I did something to bring on these symptoms, even if they do only show up on one machine.  
skypx,
Did it only happen after Beta5?

That will help figuring this out if it is.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:30 PM   #25
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Originally posted by Edgar:
skypx,
Did it only happen after Beta5?

That will help figuring this out if it is.  
Sorry I didn't pay attention. Is there any chance I could get beta5 (or earlier) for a quick test?
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:52 PM   #26
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Here are the old versions:

https://www.feldoncentral.com/~jav400/Beta/

Thanks Michael for archiving these.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:08 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Edgar:
skypx,
Did it only happen after Beta5?

That will help figuring this out if it is.  
No, all betas have the same effect.

beta1


Beta2


beta3


beta5


beta5a




Originally posted by feldon32:
Here are the old versions:

https://www.feldoncentral.com/~jav400/Beta/

Thanks Michael for archiving these.  
Thank you.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:16 PM   #28
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Originally posted by skypx:
Thanks for the reply Jim. The screensaver is at 32bit and no matter what drivers I use, I see the same thing. Any ideas? Thanks.  
Skypx,- When you used different drivers, did you reinstall DirectX again afterwards ?
When I've changed drivers, I've always had to reinstall DirectX, and cold re-boot.

..... It's worth a try,- and it can't do any harm.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:31 PM   #29
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Originally posted by Dale:
Re: my request for "what monitor" information:



Well, it's normal for the video card to query the monitor(s) to find out their characteristics, and to act on that information. It's possible for the monitor to tell the video card the wrong thing, or for the video card to misunderstand, or for the video card to do the wrong thing with correct information. Etc.

Monitors aren't just "one way" devices.

Here's one Nvidia link:

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/n...i=&p_topview=1

If that's too long - go to the Nvidia site and search the knowledgebase for Viewsonic (the articla happens to be about a Viewsonic VX2835wm).

Note also that skypx is apparently running TWO video cards, presumably in SLI mode - which is another complication.  
Fantastic! Thank you very much.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:13 PM   #30
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Originally posted by skypx:
Dale I appreciate your help in trying to get this figured out. I will try to be detailed with my answers so hopefully I won't miss anything.

I'm not the "expert" but I really don't think it's the monitor. I would have noticed abnormalities long ago, plus my laptop has the same effect.
 
OK, thanks for the answers and additional checking. Your observation on the laptop is particularly helpful. [I assume you're using the built-in laptop screen rather than an external monitor?] You're reasoning seems solid about the monitors - you are observing the same symptom on two entirely different monitors, so the problem is somewhere else.

Unfortunately, the 5 different systems that I can use to test all have ATI video cards, and not very new ones at that (1 to 2 years old). They have different monitors, and one of the systems is an HP laptop.

The largest monitor is a 22-inch Acer LCD, and the smallest is a 15-inch CRT. None of the connections is HDMI.

I have never (including Beta 6) observed any horizontal banding on any of these systems, running MA3.

So, that's not very helpful, except to observe that I'm using ATI video cards, and both of your test systems use Nvidia cards.

I do have one additional "thought" (and question): What connection type are you using for your Dell 30-inch? And would you consider an experiment of changing that connection type, just to see if the problem goes away? Unlikely, but an interesting question.

Sorry, I know that's not very helpful.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:31 PM   #31
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Sorry Edgar, it was Soc who reported banding starting with Beta5 (message 7, above).
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Old 11-15-2008, 08:51 PM   #32
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I am running Vista 64 sp1 as well. Screen Saver is in 32 bit mode. Nvidia 7900 card with the Vista 64 recently updated MS approved drivers 7.15.11.7824 from MS Update. Banding has been on all 6 of the screen savers. Just Updated to the newest drivers on Nvidia without changes.

Running dual LG monitors.

Please let me know if you need any specific information.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:26 AM   #33
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If I'm reading this correctly, there are a couple of common factors with the banding: Vista and nVidia. Not necessarily related, of course.

As a test, would some of the Vista folks (with the banding problem) try turning off Aero, please? [Or, of course, confirm that it isn't on]

General instructions:

1. Right-Click on a blank area of desktop
2. Select Personalize from the context menu
3. Click Window Color and Appearance Option
4. Here you can check if you want to Enable Transparency or not.
5. You can also disable the whole aero glass theme from here. Just click the Open classic appearance properties for more color options link.
6. Select a non-Aero theme and click OK.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:07 AM   #34
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Isn't all this "banding" simply a product of how our own monitor is interpreting the signals sent to it? - Or how that signal may have been corrupted on its way to the monitor?

I am using a Nvidia 7900 GS with 178.24 drivers and see no banding what-so-ever! Neither is any banding visible in ANY of the screenshots of the various beta versions shown in the above posts contained in this thread.... when viewed on my system! - (I am using Win2kPro). - Therefore I reason that the problem must lie with either the version of Windows in use, or be caused by something associated with the monitor of the viewer experiencing the banding, - and not the data produced by any MA3 Beta.

Whilst it may be Windows Vista that is the problem here, it could also be the drivers used, or the need to install (or reinstall) DirectX, or the method used to compress the data of a screenshot. - All can effect the visible results of the smoothness of the background. - As indeed can the method of connecting the card to the monitor, ie, D-sub or DVI.

There are too many variables involved here, and I don't believe it has anything to do with just affecting Beta5 onwards, or even MA3 in general.

.... But of course, I could be wrong, - and someone will soon tell me if I am!
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:28 AM   #35
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Originally posted by cjmaddy:
Isn't all this "banding" simply a product of how our own monitor is interpreting the signals sent to it? - Or how that signal may have been corrupted on its way to the monitor?  
I would say the answer depends. If someone has a high speed LCD (like most laptops), then they are actually running at 18-bit color (R,G,B are each 6-bit) instead of full 24-bit color. {Article}

The easiest way to test is for someone who gets a smooth background to post a screen snapshot of the Aquarium . If someone who is experiencing "lines" or banding sees a smooth image, it confirms that their monitor IS capable of displaying a smooth background, it's an issue with the Aquarium. If they see the "smooth" background as having banding, then their monitor is the problem.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:31 AM   #36
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Originally posted by Dale:
OK, thanks for the answers and additional checking. Your observation on the laptop is particularly helpful. [I assume you're using the built-in laptop screen rather than an external monitor?] You're reasoning seems solid about the monitors - you are observing the same symptom on two entirely different monitors, so the problem is somewhere else.

Unfortunately, the 5 different systems that I can use to test all have ATI video cards, and not very new ones at that (1 to 2 years old). They have different monitors, and one of the systems is an HP laptop.

The largest monitor is a 22-inch Acer LCD, and the smallest is a 15-inch CRT. None of the connections is HDMI.

I have never (including Beta 6) observed any horizontal banding on any of these systems, running MA3.

So, that's not very helpful, except to observe that I'm using ATI video cards, and both of your test systems use Nvidia cards.

I do have one additional "thought" (and question): What connection type are you using for your Dell 30-inch? And would you consider an experiment of changing that connection type, just to see if the problem goes away? Unlikely, but an interesting question.

Sorry, I know that's not very helpful.  
I'm using a DVI-D cable. Sorry, this is the only one I have.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:42 AM   #37
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http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php

http://i15.tinypic.com/4vo5thg.png

No banding on any images online.

Does anyone have a screen shot to look at?
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:47 AM   #38
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Here is a pic from using Vista w/ SP1. I have a nVidia 8800 GTS 512 card using 180.43 drivers.

PNG file



JPG file





couldn't upload the png file here since it was too big.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:07 PM   #39
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I see no banding in Derrek's first image, but very slight banding in his JPG file, - which I put down to the type/degree of .jpg compression.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:09 PM   #40
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Originally posted by cjmaddy:
Isn't all this "banding" simply a product of how our own monitor is interpreting the signals sent to it? - Or how that signal may have been corrupted on its way to the monitor?

....... and see no banding what-so-ever! Neither is any banding visible in ANY of the screenshots of the various beta versions shown in the above posts contained in this thread.... when viewed on my system! - (I am using Win2kPro). - Therefore I reason that the problem must lie with either the version of Windows in use, or be caused by something associated with the monitor of the viewer experiencing the banding, - and not the data produced by any MA3 Beta.
.........................
.... But of course, I could be wrong, - and someone will soon tell me if I am!  
Or you could be quite perceptive. I'm using Windows XP Pro on most of my systems - and Vista on 3 of them - and I have been unable to see the banding reported here on any of MY systems, when viewing any of the image captures posted here. I was reluctant to state that, because I thought it might be just my systems and/or might be my eyes and/or might be perceived as saying the OP don't really have a problem.

So, it's a good question - do all of the people seeing the problem on THEIR systems, also see the same banding when viewing ALL of the image captures shown in this thread?
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