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Old 11-16-2008, 12:35 PM   #41
wetmonkey
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The first is pretty clean, the encoding on the 2nd is causing issues with banding. Also, i looked at the gradient backgrounds on Alan's DA and do not see banding. My guess is the aquarium and vista aren't too happy.

I am going to try the newest beta 180 driver too. My guess is the same results. Lets see!

Never mind 178.24 for vista 64 bit is the newest.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:45 PM   #42
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Originally posted by wetmonkey:
I am going to try the newest beta 180 driver too. My guess is the same results. Lets see!

Never mind 178.24 for vista 64 bit is the newest.  
The 180.43 are beta drivers that came out when I think Far Cry was released to boost performance.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:03 PM   #43
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MA3 is not doing anything different between XP and Vista. If the problem is only happening in Vista, it is pointing to a Driver issue in Vista as the cause of the banding.

Also I am not sure from the reports here who are really having the banding issues and which video cards have the problem except for Skypx.

Please be clear if you have a problem or not and what your specs are.
I am looking for a pattern in the setup. I can assume from what I have read so far that only NVidia has the banding problem.
This means we also need reports if you are not having any problems.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:14 PM   #44
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I have already said that here...
Originally posted by cjmaddy:
Isn't all this "banding" simply a product of how our own monitor is interpreting the signals sent to it? - Or how that signal may have been corrupted on its way to the monitor?

I am using a Nvidia 7900 GS with 178.24 drivers and see no banding what-so-ever! Neither is any banding visible in ANY of the screenshots of the various beta versions shown in the above posts contained in this thread.... when viewed on my system! - (I am using Win2kPro). - Therefore I reason that the problem must lie with either the version of Windows in use, or be caused by something associated with the monitor of the viewer experiencing the banding, - and not the data produced by any MA3 Beta.

Whilst it may be Windows Vista that is the problem here, it could also be the drivers used, or the need to install (or reinstall) DirectX, or the method used to compress the data of a screenshot. - All can effect the visible results of the smoothness of the background. - As indeed can the method of connecting the card to the monitor, ie, D-sub or DVI.

There are too many variables involved here, and I don't believe it has anything to do with just affecting Beta5 onwards, or even MA3 in general.

.... But of course, I could be wrong, - and someone will soon tell me if I am!  
Do you require more details than:-
AMD Athlon XP2500+,~1.8GHz / 1535MB / GF 7900GS (Driver ForceWare version 178.24) / Dx 9.0c / Win2k SP4 / Dual VP920 ViewSonic Monitors.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:15 PM   #45
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The only reason I posted was to show the difference between the png and jpg pictures. Its hard to tell if/what banding is occuring when posting jpg's. I myself don't see a problem with my setup.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:29 PM   #46
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OK, 5 (or 6) systems (one is dual-boot) 3 Windows XP Pro, 3 Vista (32 bit), one of the Vistas is a laptop. Various screens. All systems happen to have (various) ATI video cards.

No problems, no banding observed.

Of course, if more details are necessary, I'll supply them. But perhaps that's enough.
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Old 11-16-2008, 08:36 PM   #47
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Originally posted by cjmaddy:
I have already said that here...
Do you require more details than:-
AMD Athlon XP2500+,~1.8GHz / 1535MB / GF 7900GS (Driver ForceWare version 178.24) / Dx 9.0c / Win2k SP4 / Dual VP920 ViewSonic Monitors.  

How is your monitor connected to the computer? (DVI-A, DVI-D, VGA)

DVI-...


VGA
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Old 11-16-2008, 08:57 PM   #48
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So far, the only person having the problem is skypx, is this correct?
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:19 PM   #49
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All those DVI's. The great thing about standards is there are so many to choose from.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:39 PM   #50
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Originally posted by feldon32:
I would say the answer depends. If someone has a high speed LCD (like most laptops), then they are actually running at 18-bit color (R,G,B are each 6-bit) instead of full 24-bit color. {Article}

The easiest way to test is for someone who gets a smooth background to post a screen snapshot of the Aquarium . If someone who is experiencing "lines" or banding sees a smooth image, it confirms that their monitor IS capable of displaying a smooth background, it's an issue with the Aquarium. If they see the "smooth" background as having banding, then their monitor is the problem.  
I don't think this banding problem is dependent at all on whether you have a 18 bit TN display or a 24 bit (the rest of the techniques used). I have one of each on this computer here at work and the screenshots posted here look just as smooth on both. Looking at them on the $2600 20" Eizo monitor on the next computer looks no better in this aspect.

IIRC, Cliff's monitors use 18 bit TN panels and he sees no banding, right?
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:40 PM   #51
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Originally posted by Edgar:
MA3 is not doing anything different between XP and Vista. If the problem is only happening in Vista, it is pointing to a Driver issue in Vista as the cause of the banding.

Also I am not sure from the reports here who are really having the banding issues and which video cards have the problem except for Skypx.

Please be clear if you have a problem or not and what your specs are.
I am looking for a pattern in the setup. I can assume from what I have read so far that only NVidia has the banding problem.
This means we also need reports if you are not having any problems.  
I am having issues too. I believe Skypx and I are the two and we are both running vista 64, Nvidia and DVI. As I look at other gradients, there isnt banding nor when running other 3d screen savers with gradient backgrounds. Norrowing down to 2 factors I hope, and possibly just vista as other rigs running Nvidia without vista are fine.

So there are less factors involved. No ATI issues.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:50 PM   #52
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Alright, sorry to throw that red herring into this if it's not a possible cause of the issue.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:30 PM   #53
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Edgar - Socrates reports banding in Beta 5 & 6. See Message 7.
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:26 AM   #54
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Skypx, - My XFX GF 7900GS AGP is a dual DVI card. - As I understand it, DVI-D single link are the correct cables for my two VP920 (1280x1024) ViewSonic Monitors.

Tiny, - "IIRC, Cliff's monitors use 18 bit TN panels and he sees no banding, right?" - Not sure about the 18-bit, but correct about: No Banding!.

ps, - Surely it's as simple as just reading the posts in this thread to see who is having the problem?
And isn't the pertinent word in all this... "Vista"?
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Old 11-17-2008, 07:19 AM   #55
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Originally posted by cjmaddy:
Skypx, - My XFX GF 7900GS AGP is a dual DVI card. - As I understand it, DVI-D single link are the correct cables for my two VP920 (1280x1024) ViewSonic Monitors.  
Ok, thanks. I thought it may be a DVI-... issue.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:00 AM   #56
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In what way do you think that DVI is the problem here?
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:16 AM   #57
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I still think this is a driver problem.
I am waiting on Soc's system specs.

I think NVidia is not handling the clipping of a large triangle model correctly. Maybe breaking down the background model to smaller triangles might fix this banding effect and the other NVidia issue on second monitor reported on another thread.
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:53 AM   #58
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I think Edgar may be correct. I have seen this before in earlier versions of the aquarium on occasion. Generally with nVidia drivers only, and a change to 16 bit, or different driver versions usually corrects it.

What I don't know is why it had the effect with the aquarium only - when the same driver did not produce this result in other 3D apps at the time. Being as the aquarium has not been one of nVidia's priorities it was never fully resolved. This of course happened in other OS's than Vista previously, but in general terms has been "solved" to the extent that I haven't heard any complaints in the chatroom/help center that Morgan and I take care of in awhile so I figured it was for the most part resolved.

I think that it's resurfacing in this instance is tied to the OS Vista and all its new coding, and what I would consider "relatively" inexperienced drivers overall time-wise for that OS.

Personally my guess is that historically Vista is going to be heaped in as a "failed" OS along with Windows ME which was atrocious. If it was doing any good MS wouldn't be needing to produce commercials trying to convince people to use it.

Just MPO though.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:06 PM   #59
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Cliff,
Could you write what model monitors you have (again ) and I'll do a quick verification.
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:45 AM   #60
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I can't be sure if that is meant as a joke or not, after all, they have been mentioned 4 times already, on this page!

If it was a joke, then it's even more obscure than my joke was here!
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