GeForce3

[Lostboy]

The new GeForce3 is made for DX8 and it's neat features, will the DX8 version of the screensaver have any features that will only been seen by GeForce3 owners? Or will a GeForce3 look any nicer with it?

[Coelacanth]

I brought up this before -- the possibility of high-end animation and more animals (not necessarily fish) for people with monster, programmable video cards like the GeForce 3.

I gathered from that discussion that the answer is a definite "maybe, but probably not." Space considerations -- it has to fit on a floppy -- coupled with both a desire to keep it simple to avoid "feature glut" and the obvious need to make most features available to a wide audience and not just the "power geeks," seemed to be the driving factors here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course....

[feldon34]

DX8 version of the Aquarium isn't coming for a while, since

#1 Jim has been able to integrate all the cool features we've been asking for into the DX6 version

#2 The DX8 version is basically incompatible with any version of Windows before Windows 2000 + XP. So no Windows 95, 98, ME. Blame Microsoft!


And Jim could add things that use the extra clock cycles available to the GF3. Jim using DX6 does not preclude him from adding more complicated items/animations that only play smoothly on the GF3. It's a space consideration. Jim has mentioned 1-2 items which MIGHT happen which would require faster cards. Who knows.

[Coelacanth]

I don't really understand #2. I might have missed a thread or two, but why would the DX8 version be incompatible with Win9x? I'm running DX 8.0a on my system and have run technology demo programs that need DX8 in order to run, and have no problems whatsoever. AFAIK, DX8 itself is DEFINITELY compatible with Win9x. Heck, the API is running everything I throw at it at the moment, under Win98SE. What is it about the DX8 version of the aquarium that precludes it from running on Win9x? Curious.

[Jim Sachs]

Most cards have major problems running DX8 with Win9X. Problems can include textures being rotated 90 degrees, polygons not lining up, and many effects too weird to describe. The Aquarium tends to come back in 320x240 resolution after waking from sleep mode, with the fish as giant black silhouettes. Definitely not ready for Prime Time.

[Coelacanth]

Hmm, weird. I have never experienced any of those problems, and I have a TNT2 card, a GeForce 1, and an old Imagine 128 Series II. (The Imagine card only gets about 2 FPS in the aquarium...but it works with no video glitches.) I find it hard to believe that Microsoft would release a version of DirectX that has such serious problems with a large number of video cards -- at least, with reasonably recent video cards. I can understand that older cards with no DX hardware support would have problems, but recent cards? Oh well, guess I won't be running the new version of the aquarium, then, at least until Windows XP comes out in its second or third service pack version (I never upgrade to a beta version or even a first release of a new OS from Microsoft). Pretty much cuts out a huge segment of your market, doesn't it?

That's interesting, the DX8/Win9x conflict. I've also got the latest DX8 drivers for my Voodoo3 2000, and haven't noticed any problems on the DX8-requiring demos,etc. running Win98(not SE).

not too long ago microsoft announced that it was going to discontinue support for win9x/ME. They did not even want to release ME, but felt the public left them no choice.

They said there would be no more SP for them and no official driver support. They are basically trying to force people to upgrade to windowsXP, so this move by microsoft to have conflicts with DX8 and win9x/me does not suprise me. They know most new games comming out will require dx8, so if people want to play them they will have to upgrade to XP

but then i could just be a paranoid conspiracy freek

[Jav400]

Basically Bobs assesment of the situation is correct. Alot of the problems stem from the fact that the DX8 libraries that Jim used for his work are geared toward the later Operating Systems only, and Microsoft has basically not offered much help in solving the problems if they stem from conflicts with the older OS. Jim had many difficulties with the password feature and the wake from sleep functions when they were applied to these older OS.

Most all of the functions that Jim thought he would need DX8 to implement, he has already managed to include in the DX6 version at this point ( with alot less problems and headaches for him. ) I don't think that DX8 is totally out of the question at this stage, but for the sake of continued timely releases for all of us, he has continued with the DX6 versions right now.

[feldon34]

Jim touched on the DX8 problem with win95/98/ME, but didn't hit the whole issue.

Yes, DirectX 8 and 8.0a runs fine on Windows 95/98/ME.

Yes, DX8-specific games and other programs run great on Windows 95/98/ME.

However DirectX 8 SCREEN SAVERS are a different beast. Microsoft has written DX8 screen saver code (in April) which Jim has been using. This code works great under Windows 2000 and XP, and horribly under 95/98/ME. They have expressed no interest in fixing the problem either.

So when you ask Jim for a DX8 version, you're asking him to go exclusively Windows 2000/XP.

Not that 2000 isn't an excellent OS that *everyone*, even gamers, should at least try. I thought I'd hate it. I can't imagine going back now. I haven't had an out-of-memory or out-of-resources message in 4 months.

[Jim Sachs]

(From Coelecanth) - "Oh well, guess I won't be running the new version of the aquarium, then, at least until Windows XP comes out ... Pretty much cuts out a huge segment of your market, doesn't it?"

You are misunderstanding the problem. I won't be releasing the DX8 version until these issues are resolved to my satisfaction. I will continue to build the new versions with the DX6 libraries. Anyone who has DX6, 7, or 8 properly installed on their computer should have no trouble with the Aquarium. As always, I'm going for the widest compatibility, not cutting out a segment of the market.

The problems only show up when:
1. DX8 is installed
2. OS is Win9x
3. Program is compiled with DX8 libraries

P.S. The reason that the Aquarium runs on your old card at 2fps is that it is running in rgb emulation mode, which does not use your card's drivers.

However DirectX 8 screen savers are a different beast. Microsoft as written DX8 screen saver code which Jim has been using. This code works great under Windows 2000 and XP, and horribly under 95/98/ME. They have expressed no interest in fixing the problem either.

Got it.

I haven't had an out-of-memory or out-of-resources message in 4 months.

Cool. I think I'm going on 4 hours now, which is some kind of record.

[FrogMastr]

Just a Question How many of us Use it as a program?

Because if many are ...
Password and Sleep mode issues can be corrected later ...

Or maybe i am not of the majority

Because In Win2K we still have lockups that will be resolved un DX8 version....

So Win2k = Locking up un til DX8....
and Win9x = Password issue so no DX8 for now....

Can 2 Versions be compiled?
So for US in Win2k we could be able to have No lockups?

I know this is hard to please everyone )))))) i work in IT so i know.....

[feldon34]

FrogMastr,

Fix your computer.

I run the Aquarium on Windows 2000 for hours and hours with no problems.

And the DX8 version isn't inherently more stable. The whole premise of the DX8 version was to add all the features we got in .99K. Jim found ways to add those features in DX6. If you are having problems with .99K in Windows 2000, you have configuration issues with your computer that need to be resolved.

Try a BIOS upgrade to your motherboard, try testing out the RAM, try installing the latest drivers and then DirectX 8.0a on top. The Aquarium should be able to run non-stop for 12 hours at least. I know it does on my PC.



Coelacanth,

DirectX 8 is not Windows 2000/XP-exclusive. DirectX 8-specific SCREEN SAVERS only work on 2000/XP, because of the Microsoft DX8 SS libraries they released in APRIL that they are requiring Jim to use. These libraries give you all kinds of neat fancy stuff, but at the expense of stability/display problems on Windows 95/98/ME.

If Jim put out a DX8 version of the Aquarium right now, Windows 95/98/98SE/ME users would experience random lockups, blue screens, and the password and Settings boxes would randomly be invisible and the only way to exit is Ctrl-Alt-Del or switching off the power. All of these issues are caused by Microsoft's DirectX 8 Screen Saver libraries released in April. When queried, they said "too bad so sad, we're going 2000/XP only". So Jim found out the hard way, after spending 2 months writing the DX8 version. Jim WANTED to walk away from DX6 completely but Microsoft is making it impossible.


.99K runs properly on ALL installations of Windows 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP with the proper hardware and drivers installed. Several people are running .99K on the betas of XP with no problems at all. So I'm not sure what your statement "I'll wait until SP3 of XP" is all about.

.99K has EVERY FEATURE except multiple monitor support that Jim has promised.

Jim can add more complex animals to the Aquarium that would only appear on faster cards if he wanted. Jim could make it so you can display all 22 fish at once, but only if your card information comes back as GeForce 3. It's not a question of CAN/CAN'T but WILL/WONT.

I'm curious as to why people are still going nuts for the DX8 version. If you are having trouble with .99K, you have configuration problems on your computer that need to be resolved. Jim and his support staff, as well as some of the more helpful and knowledgeable members of this forum would be glad to help you to resolve this problem.

Maybe the minimum hardware/software requirements are not being met or software is interfering with the Aquarium. If you press Ctrl-Alt-Del, there should be no more than a dozen items listed as running Tasks.

Perhaps your motherboard BIOS is out of date? (I know mine was!) All people installing Win2k SHOULD upgrade their motherboard's BIOS software to the latest version.


Also, I think it would be unfair of us to expect Jim to maintain both DX6 and DX8 versions of the Aquarium. The two versions have hardly a line of code in common. Jim spent 2 months writing the DX8 version largely from scratch, as DX8 is a whole different animal. In exchange for all that work, he got SCREWED by Microsoft.

He should not have to add features to two different versions, which, to be honest, requires thinking in two different languages. It would be like expecting 1 person to publish a newspaper in two languages simultaneously. It's insanity (even more than Jim already goes through).

Bottom line, if you are having problems with .99K on your Windows 2000, you have configuration problems somewhere and I'm shocked you don't have other problems with other software. Please reach out to the support available to you here or locally in town to try to get this resolved.

A DX8 version of the Aquarium is of very low priority now to Jim. At this point, it would give us ONE more feature (multiple monitor support). That's it.

On a final note, if people think a DX8 version of the Aquarium won't get snagged on the same configuration problems that .99K is hitting, you're fooling yourself.

[feldon34]

I haven't had an out-of-memory or out-of-resources message in 4 months.

Cool. I think I'm going on 4 hours now, which is some kind of record.

Jack, how can we help you clear up your Windows 2000 issues? The stability I have under Windows 2000 is shocking. It has been described by even Microsoft haters as the best thing they've ever written. Could you spell out all your hardware, the software you have installed, etc.?

Did you upgrade the BIOS on your motherboard to the latest version? What video card and driver do you have? I get the feeling you've answered these questions in the hardware forum, but for sake of interest if you could post them here maybe we can help resolve things.

Jack, how can we help you clear up your Windows 2000 issues?

As I pointed out in my intial post, I'm running Win98. Hence, my little jab at it.
I plan, eventually, to go to 2000. I tend to wait 'till things "mature" a bit. By all accounts, though, they have.

[feldon34]

Windows 2000 with bad drivers runs worse than 98. Windows 2000 with good drivers runs perfectly. I suggest 128MB or more of RAM, but in exchange, it runs smoother and more reliably than 98.

Adding RAM to Windows 98 doesn't accomplish much.
Adding RAM to Windows 2000 really makes a huge difference in performance. I have 224MB of RAM (started out with 96MB under Win2k) and it almost never hits the hard drive unless I'm loading something new. Even with 30 Internet Explorer windows, Photoshop, Illustrator, mIRC, and a few background apps running, the whole system is extremely responsive.

[Jav400]

Jack,

You are welcome next time you are in chat to compare specs with me if you would like. I run Win98, although it is SE, and I have very few problems. I have been through alot of different driver versions for testing purposes and may be able to offer some insight into that part. Jim's aquarium for me runs great, it generally runs all night long, and if I don't have time to check in the next morning, all the next day with no problems. I would be happy to offer any assistance I can.

[Lostboy]

Does the SS need DX8 to auto switch to 16-bit mode? I've been waiting for this since day 1.

[feldon34]

Lostboy,

Yes, if your video card/video card driver doesn't auto-detect the need to switch to 16-bit, then the only solution is the DX8 version of the Aquarium, unless Jim has discovered a way under DX6 to force this change.

I wish they'd update the driver for your video card to auto-detect like most of the TnT Riva 1 + 2 and GeForce 1, 2, + 3 cards do. They CAN fix this in the driver but they've chosen not to!