Awesome program, one small concern tho...

riz · 08-19-2001, 08:00 PM

Wow! that's I'll I've got to say about this program!!! Simply awesome... I've been computing for 6 plus years and always thought a cool aquarium program was imenent... I checked around years and years ago and nothing was close... until now

I've set up my second pc with a permanent aquarium on my spare 17 flat screen Viewsonic... it's in the living room between two couches (kinda an L couch with and end table between the two couches) and is used as my new salt water aquarium sans the salt... and the expense... and the PH levels

Now I've got a cool aquarium and when I want the Internet and am too lazy to make it to my desk, I've got that too...

Basically I have one concern tho... my second PC is beat up and when it dies, it dies... but I have noticed 100% cpu usage when the aquarium is running... 100% is pretty steep for something I plan on having on all my waking hours. Is anyone else concerned with this? Will running this many hours a day kill my processor in a short time?? and is there plans for a less cpu intensive program 'cause 100% is a helluva lot...

Thanx for your input and Jim, outstanding job on one of the neatest programs I've ever witnessed!!!

riz

feldon34 · 08-19-2001, 08:39 PM

This is well-documented. Although your 3D card is capable of displaying X number of frames, the Aquarium generates thousands of frames, certainly more than your video card needs.
I would monitor the temperature of your CPU and, if possible, you may wish to dial down the MHz of that processor to below the posted speed.

Note that the Aquarium uses processor cycles left over after every other program has done its thing.

Many people use the Aquarium as a screen saver non-stop with no ill effects to their computer.

This will be resolved in a future version of the Aquarium.

Jav400 · 08-19-2001, 08:56 PM

rizzer57,

I have ran Jim's aquarium for many months. I use it as an actual Screen Saver and it runs 24/7 when I am not around or actually doing something on my system, and even then I run it in a window alot of the time

, so far I haven't had any ill side effects with this kind of total usage.

Coelacanth · 08-19-2001, 09:30 PM

I have the aquarium going pretty much 24/7 on one machine (well let's say HAD...living in CA I'm now a little more prone to turn stuff off when not in use...), and I never had any ill effects at all.

I will mention though that that machine is cooled with a pretty heavy-duty peltier/heatsink on the CPU, and a heatsink/fan on the video card chip.

riz · 08-19-2001, 11:13 PM

Thanx for the replies guys... Since the machine I'm using it on is an older PII 350, I'm not really worried will run it into the ground all the while enjoying this killer screensaver... I just thought 100% was extremely high (well duh, it's maxed) and that's great if it does get addressed in a future revision

My vid card is a 32mb GeForce MX and it runs silky smooth... my 1400 Athlon system and 64mb Radeon DDR hardly runs it any smoother... which I thought was odd but apparently the vid card is way more important the cpu clock speed...

This dang program might make me buy a bigger monitor LOL... 42" plasma anyone?

08-20-2001, 11:13 AM

Normally 100% load won't do any harm or even affect temperatures or electricity bill. Natively Win98 for example can't halt the processor even if it is not doing anything useful so it will always use and emit the same amount of power. Thus majority of PC:s won't care if the load is 0% or 100%, the processor always runs at full power.

More advanced OS:es like Linux and Win2000 (should at least) can halt the processor and many tools and patches allow W98 do the same. With CPU halt enabled there is a black vs white difference between 0% and 100%; use of power may change almost linearly with load (depends on the processor) so a high speed computer might have a 60-120 Watt difference between 10% and 100% which certainly can be seen in the electricity bill with a 24/365 computer.

One thing of warning is that with a heavy duty Peltier cooler the processor core will slowly crumble to dust if the load changes a lot. A high speed processor with a heavy duty peltier might have temperatures quickly varying between below freezing and much higher than room temperature which does a lot of strain to the core. These setups should normally have some background load if CPU halt is enabled.

08-20-2001, 12:02 PM

first of all, i think this is really a strange discusstion..

if Jim need to rewrite his program for such ONE SMALL CONCERN, he may sleep 2 or 3 hours a day.

if your CPU get die for such lovely screensaver, just
blame to the CPU manufacturer ( they offer the
warranty for their products ).

furthermore, it is not a responsibility of software,
the hardware should take care for the power consumption...like AMD-PowerNow, Crusoe-Longrun...
but it won't be appeared in desktop computers.

Coelacanth · 08-20-2001, 08:40 PM

You should NEVER run anything that sends HLT (halt) commands to your CPU, if you have a peltier cooler. The thing can get below freezing if you do, and some serious condensation can happen.

If you're running something like CPU-Idle or Rain -- get rid of them. I think Motherboard Monitor actually has a feature that can monitor the temperature of your CPU and start crunching numbers like crazy if the CPU temperature gets too LOW.

For me, running the Sachs Aquarium pretty much alleviates that fear. The CPU is cranking away on it and stays within a good temp range -- cool, but not too cool.

08-21-2001, 11:44 AM

Hi,

Forgive me if this sounds smug, but perhaps one way to overcome this problem is to switch to twin CPUs. I have a dual Xeon system, and after reading your post I checked my Task manager (running Win 2K) to see what was going on. It appears that the screen saver will run multi threaded, because my total usage is about 47%, with each processor doing half the work. I'm not suggesting that you buy a monster system just for a fishtank, but I expect there are plenty of second-hand dual Pentium machnes out there.

08-21-2001, 02:14 PM

> if Jim need to rewrite his program for such ONE SMALL CONCERN, he may sleep 2 or 3 hours a day.

I agree that there are things I'd like to see more but for me this small concern prohibits using it as a screensaver. Quickly estimating electricity costs of 100% CPU usage for me would give about 50 bucks extra per year so I'm now only explicitely running it whenever I like. Actually I might not mind too much if a lot of work is really needed for that as I can always use the old'n'trusty "blank screen" (the only real screen saver) for my screen saver needs.

> furthermore, it is not a responsibility of software, the hardware should take care for the
> power consumption...like AMD-PowerNow, Crusoe-Longrun...

Nope. Hardware can't use any of those power saving features if software is taking every CPU cycle. To the hardware it looks like the software needs all the power it can get so it can't throttle the processor.

> You should NEVER run anything that sends HLT (halt) commands to your CPU, if you have a peltier cooler.

Correct except this might not be possible if Linux, NT, W2k etc are used as those tend to send HLT by default. Some background load (like the aquarium as you say) should always be used with those.

08-19-2001, 08:00 PM	#1
riz Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 30	Awesome program, one small concern tho... Wow! that's I'll I've got to say about this program!!! Simply awesome... I've been computing for 6 plus years and always thought a cool aquarium program was imenent... I checked around years and years ago and nothing was close... until now I've set up my second pc with a permanent aquarium on my spare 17 flat screen Viewsonic... it's in the living room between two couches (kinda an L couch with and end table between the two couches) and is used as my new salt water aquarium sans the salt... and the expense... and the PH levels Now I've got a cool aquarium and when I want the Internet and am too lazy to make it to my desk, I've got that too... Basically I have one concern tho... my second PC is beat up and when it dies, it dies... but I have noticed 100% cpu usage when the aquarium is running... 100% is pretty steep for something I plan on having on all my waking hours. Is anyone else concerned with this? Will running this many hours a day kill my processor in a short time?? and is there plans for a less cpu intensive program 'cause 100% is a helluva lot... Thanx for your input and Jim, outstanding job on one of the neatest programs I've ever witnessed!!! riz

08-19-2001, 08:39 PM	#2
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	Re: Awesome program, one small concern tho... This is well-documented. Although your 3D card is capable of displaying X number of frames, the Aquarium generates thousands of frames, certainly more than your video card needs. I would monitor the temperature of your CPU and, if possible, you may wish to dial down the MHz of that processor to below the posted speed. Note that the Aquarium uses processor cycles left over after every other program has done its thing. Many people use the Aquarium as a screen saver non-stop with no ill effects to their computer. This will be resolved in a future version of the Aquarium. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

08-19-2001, 08:56 PM	#3
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Re: Awesome program, one small concern tho... rizzer57, I have ran Jim's aquarium for many months. I use it as an actual Screen Saver and it runs 24/7 when I am not around or actually doing something on my system, and even then I run it in a window alot of the time , so far I haven't had any ill side effects with this kind of total usage. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

08-19-2001, 09:30 PM	#4
Coelacanth Thought to be Extinct Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: My Watery Abode Posts: 180	Re: Awesome program, one small concern tho... I have the aquarium going pretty much 24/7 on one machine (well let's say HAD...living in CA I'm now a little more prone to turn stuff off when not in use...), and I never had any ill effects at all. I will mention though that that machine is cooled with a pretty heavy-duty peltier/heatsink on the CPU, and a heatsink/fan on the video card chip.

08-19-2001, 11:13 PM	#5
riz Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 30	Re: Awesome program, one small concern tho... Thanx for the replies guys... Since the machine I'm using it on is an older PII 350, I'm not really worried will run it into the ground all the while enjoying this killer screensaver... I just thought 100% was extremely high (well duh, it's maxed) and that's great if it does get addressed in a future revision My vid card is a 32mb GeForce MX and it runs silky smooth... my 1400 Athlon system and 64mb Radeon DDR hardly runs it any smoother... which I thought was odd but apparently the vid card is way more important the cpu clock speed... This dang program might make me buy a bigger monitor LOL... 42" plasma anyone?

08-20-2001, 11:13 AM	#6
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Awesome program, one small concern tho... Normally 100% load won't do any harm or even affect temperatures or electricity bill. Natively Win98 for example can't halt the processor even if it is not doing anything useful so it will always use and emit the same amount of power. Thus majority of PC:s won't care if the load is 0% or 100%, the processor always runs at full power. More advanced OS:es like Linux and Win2000 (should at least) can halt the processor and many tools and patches allow W98 do the same. With CPU halt enabled there is a black vs white difference between 0% and 100%; use of power may change almost linearly with load (depends on the processor) so a high speed computer might have a 60-120 Watt difference between 10% and 100% which certainly can be seen in the electricity bill with a 24/365 computer. One thing of warning is that with a heavy duty Peltier cooler the processor core will slowly crumble to dust if the load changes a lot. A high speed processor with a heavy duty peltier might have temperatures quickly varying between below freezing and much higher than room temperature which does a lot of strain to the core. These setups should normally have some background load if CPU halt is enabled.

08-20-2001, 12:02 PM	#7
Guest Posts: n/a	re : Awesome program, one small concern tho... first of all, i think this is really a strange discusstion.. if Jim need to rewrite his program for such ONE SMALL CONCERN, he may sleep 2 or 3 hours a day. if your CPU get die for such lovely screensaver, just blame to the CPU manufacturer ( they offer the warranty for their products ). furthermore, it is not a responsibility of software, the hardware should take care for the power consumption...like AMD-PowerNow, Crusoe-Longrun... but it won't be appeared in desktop computers.

08-20-2001, 08:40 PM	#8
Coelacanth Thought to be Extinct Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: My Watery Abode Posts: 180	Re: re : Awesome program, one small concern tho... You should NEVER run anything that sends HLT (halt) commands to your CPU, if you have a peltier cooler. The thing can get below freezing if you do, and some serious condensation can happen. If you're running something like CPU-Idle or Rain -- get rid of them. I think Motherboard Monitor actually has a feature that can monitor the temperature of your CPU and start crunching numbers like crazy if the CPU temperature gets too LOW. For me, running the Sachs Aquarium pretty much alleviates that fear. The CPU is cranking away on it and stays within a good temp range -- cool, but not too cool.

08-21-2001, 11:44 AM	#9
Guest Posts: n/a	How about dual processors? Hi, Forgive me if this sounds smug, but perhaps one way to overcome this problem is to switch to twin CPUs. I have a dual Xeon system, and after reading your post I checked my Task manager (running Win 2K) to see what was going on. It appears that the screen saver will run multi threaded, because my total usage is about 47%, with each processor doing half the work. I'm not suggesting that you buy a monster system just for a fishtank, but I expect there are plenty of second-hand dual Pentium machnes out there.

08-21-2001, 02:14 PM	#10
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: re : Awesome program, one small concern tho... > if Jim need to rewrite his program for such ONE SMALL CONCERN, he may sleep 2 or 3 hours a day. I agree that there are things I'd like to see more but for me this small concern prohibits using it as a screensaver. Quickly estimating electricity costs of 100% CPU usage for me would give about 50 bucks extra per year so I'm now only explicitely running it whenever I like. Actually I might not mind too much if a lot of work is really needed for that as I can always use the old'n'trusty "blank screen" (the only real screen saver) for my screen saver needs. > furthermore, it is not a responsibility of software, the hardware should take care for the > power consumption...like AMD-PowerNow, Crusoe-Longrun... Nope. Hardware can't use any of those power saving features if software is taking every CPU cycle. To the hardware it looks like the software needs all the power it can get so it can't throttle the processor. > You should NEVER run anything that sends HLT (halt) commands to your CPU, if you have a peltier cooler. Correct except this might not be possible if Linux, NT, W2k etc are used as those tend to send HLT by default. Some background load (like the aquarium as you say) should always be used with those.