Little wide-Screen Clarification Please

b737 · 06-06-2009, 11:14 PM

Howdy folks. I have been reading the threads in regards to having a full screen aquarium instead of panning.

Just a little confused on the capabilities of MA3 in this regard. So, Ill just mention what I would like to do; and you folks could tell me how or if it is doable?

Basically, I have envisioned setting up a screen display on the wall using networking and MA3. Ie something like a plasma screen or similiar that would be hanging on the living room wall to resemble a real marine aquarium.

Just don't have the time or resources for a real marine aquarium at this time. I fly for an airline, so traveling alot.

So, any light shed on my idea, greatly appreciated.

Jim, love what you have done with MA3 thus far.

I do echo some other folks that have mentioned varying sizes in the future. Especially if I was using a full screen sized tank...spread things around a little.

You guys are great with your assistance. Thank You.

Best,
David

Jim Sachs · 06-07-2009, 02:04 AM

So you're asking for a narrow strip of Aquarium, with black bars on the top and bottom? That would almost certainly burn-in on a Plasma display.

Jav400 · 06-07-2009, 03:59 AM

David,

Plasma screens are extremely susceptible to burn-in. If you had a scene with any part that wasn't moving and you left it for awhile you would ruin that tv.

The way Jim has it now where it moves is the absolute best way for it to be in that regard.

rctneil · 06-07-2009, 05:21 AM

what about problems on multi monitor setups where you can see all the tank that scrolling is not necessary. How is burn in solved there!

Rick Simon · 06-07-2009, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by rctneil:

what about problems on multi monitor setups where you can see all the tank that scrolling is not necessary. How is burn in solved there!

It's not. That's why, hopefully, somewhere on Jim's list of future updates is the reintroduction of light cycling (ala MA2.6).

feldon34 · 06-07-2009, 07:06 AM

That's only if you are using Plasma where it is a real concern.

Plasma is on its way out for many reasons including burn-in and power consumption.

Jav400 · 06-07-2009, 07:22 AM

While you can suffer from "Image Persistance" on LCDs, it is generally more rare and takes allot more to cause it. It also can in general terms be corrected. Everyone is more used to the term "Burn In" concerning CRT's, where it is a real concern, this same problem applies to Plasma tv sets.

As far as LCD's go: try these items if you have any IP:

Turn off the monitor for extended periods of time. It can be as little as several hours or it could be as long as several days.
Use a screen saver with a rotating image and run it for extended periods of time. The rotating color palette should help remove the persistent image but it could take a long time.
Run the screen with a single solid color or bright white for an extended period of time. This will cause all of the crystals to be reset at a single color setting and should hopefully erase any previous image persistence.

Bob · 06-07-2009, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by b737:

I have been reading the threads in regards to having a full screen aquarium instead of panning.

You don't have to have the aquarium pan. Uncheck Auto Pan in program settings. Then just slide ithe aquarium right or left (use the arrow keys) to pick the portion of the aquarium you want to see. (Note burn-in warnings above.)

Or in program settings just set the pan speed to the slowest. I wouldn't be surprised that you would find the pan speed OK for your planned use. This solves the burn-in problem and enhances the 3-D effect.

Dale · 06-07-2009, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Bob:

You don't have to have the aquarium pan. Uncheck Auto Pan in program settings. Then just slide ithe aquarium right or left (use the arrow keys) to pick the portion of the aquarium you want to see. (Note burn-in warnings above.)

Or in program settings just set the pan speed to the slowest. I wouldn't be surprised that you would find the pan speed OK for your planned use. This solves the burn-in problem and enhances the 3-D effect.

Just so B737 (SWA Pilot?) will be clear on this - if you uncheck Auto Pan, your fish will swim "out of sight" at the sides of the simulation. I don't personally find that to be a drawback, but it's worth mentioning.

cjmaddy · 06-07-2009, 10:40 AM

We can ALL view whatever width aquarium our screen, (or number of screens), will allow. - And we have the option to pan or not pan, and display which ever section we choose if we decide to lock the panning.

As I have said elsewhere....
I think that we should accept that MA3 is a VERY wide tank, and if we want to see the whole of it on one screen, then we have to have a very much reduced-height window. - If a version with black at the top and bottom, (a la MA2.6), becomes available, then fine for those who do not like making the necessary shape window. - But to distort the image in any way, in order to fit the full height of a single screen, is ridiculous IMO.

I quite like seeing the population change slightly as some fish swim off screen, - and others swim back on! - it all seems quite natural to me.

But I do believe that there are those who seriously think you can fit a quart into a pint pot!

Dale · 06-07-2009, 11:25 AM

None of my seven systems has more than one monitor.

I am not bothered by the panning motion, nor by the fact that I can only see about 1/3 of my selected fish at any one time.

However, I do understand and respect that others are bothered by one or both of those effects.

Jim Sachs · 06-07-2009, 11:39 AM

There is a program which shows the whole tank on a single monitor - MA2.6. It will continue to be available. MA3 was created for people who wanted more, a bigger Universe than what they can see. I'm a single-monitor person - it's a big hassle for me to set up two monitors for testing. I use scrolling. It's the only way of seeing the 3D nature of the background, with foreground objects going by much faster than more distant objects. If the camera was static, it might as well be a 2D scene. If I had known people would be complaining about it, I could have saved several years of development.

Dale · 06-07-2009, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by harris:

Addendum: Hey, this is fun - now I see why the Dale/cjmaddy tit-for-tat saga continues.

Especially when both of us agree to disagree with you?

feldon34 · 06-07-2009, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

Especially when both of us agree to disagree with you?

I'm sure you know that feeling by now.

b737 · 06-07-2009, 05:59 PM

Appreciate the feedback. I jsut mentioned plasma. That wasn't necessarly the solution.

Jim, In actuality, no I did not want the black bars. I would like the aquarium to fill the whole screen. Be it through an LCD monitor etc.

I jsut wanted this hanging on my wall to look like a marine aquarium inmy home, with out all the muss and fuss.

So, that the entire full length of the aquarium would show on screen. Panning side to side, would look a little strange I think.

I jsut wnated to create a virual aquarium. With your genious skills it would have looked most realistic i feel.

Doesn't sound like mu ideal will be feasible right now. However, I can still enjoy this masterpiece on my 22" LCD monitor in the office.

Thanks again, for a wonderful product.

Thanks to ALL of you, for your invaluable feedback.

To answer, yes I fly for Southwest.

Best,
David

Wizwad · 06-07-2009, 06:21 PM

Sure you can achieve that, David - you just need a couple of widescreen monitors side by side on your wall. If sizing the aquarium makes it such that you can see the background (hopefully not much by now), just create a suitable background of your choice that fills in the gaps, hide the toolbar, start the application and enjoy!

Jim Sachs · 06-07-2009, 06:46 PM

I just don't understand how you can get 3 screens of width on one screen without shrinking the image vertically. Otherwise, you have to squish the image into preposterous proportions like this:

harris · 06-07-2009, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Dale:

Especially when both of us agree to disagree with you?

Dale,

I am honored to be the one that got you and Cliff to agree on something.

Jim Sachs · 06-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Even if I put the Anamorphic Factor back in, it would not be to intentionally create a letterbox effect. If fact the whole reason for that function in MA2.6 was to stretch the image to fit the monitor and REMOVE any black bars caused by image-size/resolution conflicts.

Dale · 06-07-2009, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Even if I put the Anamorphic Factor back in, it would not be to intentionally create a letterbox effect. If fact the whole reason for that function in MA2.6 was to stretch the image to fit the monitor and REMOVE any black bars caused by image-size/resolution conflicts.

Not a recommendation/suggestion -- but it would be possible to stretch the water at the top upward 3x. Of course, the fish would only inhabit the lower third of the tank. And the bubbles would be an issue.

06-06-2009, 11:14 PM	#1
b737 Registered Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Colleyville,TX Posts: 8	Little wide-Screen Clarification Please Howdy folks. I have been reading the threads in regards to having a full screen aquarium instead of panning. Just a little confused on the capabilities of MA3 in this regard. So, Ill just mention what I would like to do; and you folks could tell me how or if it is doable? Basically, I have envisioned setting up a screen display on the wall using networking and MA3. Ie something like a plasma screen or similiar that would be hanging on the living room wall to resemble a real marine aquarium. Just don't have the time or resources for a real marine aquarium at this time. I fly for an airline, so traveling alot. So, any light shed on my idea, greatly appreciated. Jim, love what you have done with MA3 thus far. I do echo some other folks that have mentioned varying sizes in the future. Especially if I was using a full screen sized tank...spread things around a little. You guys are great with your assistance. Thank You. Best, David

06-07-2009, 02:04 AM	#2
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	So you're asking for a narrow strip of Aquarium, with black bars on the top and bottom? That would almost certainly burn-in on a Plasma display. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-07-2009, 03:59 AM	#3
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	David, Plasma screens are extremely susceptible to burn-in. If you had a scene with any part that wasn't moving and you left it for awhile you would ruin that tv. The way Jim has it now where it moves is the absolute best way for it to be in that regard. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

06-07-2009, 07:06 AM	#6
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	That's only if you are using Plasma where it is a real concern. Plasma is on its way out for many reasons including burn-in and power consumption. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-07-2009, 07:22 AM	#7
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	While you can suffer from "Image Persistance" on LCDs, it is generally more rare and takes allot more to cause it. It also can in general terms be corrected. Everyone is more used to the term "Burn In" concerning CRT's, where it is a real concern, this same problem applies to Plasma tv sets. As far as LCD's go: try these items if you have any IP: Turn off the monitor for extended periods of time. It can be as little as several hours or it could be as long as several days. Use a screen saver with a rotating image and run it for extended periods of time. The rotating color palette should help remove the persistent image but it could take a long time. Run the screen with a single solid color or bright white for an extended period of time. This will cause all of the crystals to be reset at a single color setting and should hopefully erase any previous image persistence. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

06-07-2009, 05:21 AM	#4
rctneil Registered Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 239	what about problems on multi monitor setups where you can see all the tank that scrolling is not necessary. How is burn in solved there!

06-07-2009, 06:34 AM	#5
Rick Simon Registered Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 93	Originally posted by rctneil: what about problems on multi monitor setups where you can see all the tank that scrolling is not necessary. How is burn in solved there! It's not. That's why, hopefully, somewhere on Jim's list of future updates is the reintroduction of light cycling (ala MA2.6).

06-07-2009, 08:30 AM	#8
Bob Registered Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 103	Originally posted by b737: I have been reading the threads in regards to having a full screen aquarium instead of panning. You don't have to have the aquarium pan. Uncheck Auto Pan in program settings. Then just slide ithe aquarium right or left (use the arrow keys) to pick the portion of the aquarium you want to see. (Note burn-in warnings above.) Or in program settings just set the pan speed to the slowest. I wouldn't be surprised that you would find the pan speed OK for your planned use. This solves the burn-in problem and enhances the 3-D effect.

06-07-2009, 09:22 AM	#9
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Bob: You don't have to have the aquarium pan. Uncheck Auto Pan in program settings. Then just slide ithe aquarium right or left (use the arrow keys) to pick the portion of the aquarium you want to see. (Note burn-in warnings above.) Or in program settings just set the pan speed to the slowest. I wouldn't be surprised that you would find the pan speed OK for your planned use. This solves the burn-in problem and enhances the 3-D effect. Just so B737 (SWA Pilot?) will be clear on this - if you uncheck Auto Pan, your fish will swim "out of sight" at the sides of the simulation. I don't personally find that to be a drawback, but it's worth mentioning.

06-07-2009, 10:40 AM	#10
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	We can ALL view whatever width aquarium our screen, (or number of screens), will allow. - And we have the option to pan or not pan, and display which ever section we choose if we decide to lock the panning. As I have said elsewhere.... I think that we should accept that MA3 is a VERY wide tank, and if we want to see the whole of it on one screen, then we have to have a very much reduced-height window. - If a version with black at the top and bottom, (a la MA2.6), becomes available, then fine for those who do not like making the necessary shape window. - But to distort the image in any way, in order to fit the full height of a single screen, is ridiculous IMO. I quite like seeing the population change slightly as some fish swim off screen, - and others swim back on! - it all seems quite natural to me. But I do believe that there are those who seriously think you can fit a quart into a pint pot! Last edited by cjmaddy; 06-08-2009 at 02:35 AM.

06-07-2009, 11:25 AM	#11
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	None of my seven systems has more than one monitor. I am not bothered by the panning motion, nor by the fact that I can only see about 1/3 of my selected fish at any one time. However, I do understand and respect that others are bothered by one or both of those effects.

06-07-2009, 11:39 AM	#12
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	There is a program which shows the whole tank on a single monitor - MA2.6. It will continue to be available. MA3 was created for people who wanted more, a bigger Universe than what they can see. I'm a single-monitor person - it's a big hassle for me to set up two monitors for testing. I use scrolling. It's the only way of seeing the 3D nature of the background, with foreground objects going by much faster than more distant objects. If the camera was static, it might as well be a 2D scene. If I had known people would be complaining about it, I could have saved several years of development. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-07-2009, 01:00 PM	#13
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by harris: Addendum: Hey, this is fun - now I see why the Dale/cjmaddy tit-for-tat saga continues. Especially when both of us agree to disagree with you?

06-07-2009, 03:45 PM	#14
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Dale: Especially when both of us agree to disagree with you? I'm sure you know that feeling by now. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-07-2009, 05:59 PM	#15
b737 Registered Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Colleyville,TX Posts: 8	Thanks for the info. folks. Appreciate the feedback. I jsut mentioned plasma. That wasn't necessarly the solution. Jim, In actuality, no I did not want the black bars. I would like the aquarium to fill the whole screen. Be it through an LCD monitor etc. I jsut wanted this hanging on my wall to look like a marine aquarium inmy home, with out all the muss and fuss. So, that the entire full length of the aquarium would show on screen. Panning side to side, would look a little strange I think. I jsut wnated to create a virual aquarium. With your genious skills it would have looked most realistic i feel. Doesn't sound like mu ideal will be feasible right now. However, I can still enjoy this masterpiece on my 22" LCD monitor in the office. Thanks again, for a wonderful product. Thanks to ALL of you, for your invaluable feedback. To answer, yes I fly for Southwest. Best, David

06-07-2009, 06:21 PM	#16
Wizwad Only me... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 2,584	Sure you can achieve that, David - you just need a couple of widescreen monitors side by side on your wall. If sizing the aquarium makes it such that you can see the background (hopefully not much by now), just create a suitable background of your choice that fills in the gaps, hide the toolbar, start the application and enjoy! Mark ----------- Intel i7 12700K \| Aorus Z690 Pro \| Corsair DDR5 5600 32GB \| Asus Dual RTX3060ti 6GB v2 Mini OC \| Corsair RM850 Gold PSU \| 1TB NVMe M.2 WD Black SN850 \| 4TB Seagate BarraCuda HDD \| Corsair Airflow 5000D Case \| HP 32QHD 4K Monitor \| Windows 11 x64 Professional

06-07-2009, 08:09 PM	#18
harris Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 122	Originally posted by Dale: Especially when both of us agree to disagree with you? Dale, I am honored to be the one that got you and Cliff to agree on something. Last edited by harris; 06-08-2009 at 11:16 AM.

06-07-2009, 08:22 PM	#19
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Even if I put the Anamorphic Factor back in, it would not be to intentionally create a letterbox effect. If fact the whole reason for that function in MA2.6 was to stretch the image to fit the monitor and REMOVE any black bars caused by image-size/resolution conflicts. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-07-2009, 09:04 PM	#20
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Even if I put the Anamorphic Factor back in, it would not be to intentionally create a letterbox effect. If fact the whole reason for that function in MA2.6 was to stretch the image to fit the monitor and REMOVE any black bars caused by image-size/resolution conflicts. Not a recommendation/suggestion -- but it would be possible to stretch the water at the top upward 3x. Of course, the fish would only inhabit the lower third of the tank. And the bubbles would be an issue.