Fish going off screen?

Executioner · 10-18-2003, 11:30 AM

I can understand Jim's dedication to detail,however,we are all aware that the screensaver is an animation;and,as much as we'd like it to be authentic,find it very annoying when the fish poke their noses off-screen. It's much more pleasing to the eye when they stop at the side (or top) of the desk-top.
It is not my intention that this be considered a criticsim of Jim or his work. His marine screensavers are FANTISTIC and I am much looking foreward to his Fresh-water Aquarium...............It's just a thought.

cjmaddy · 10-18-2003, 11:52 AM

....... And I thought I was pernickety!

....... Who are the 'we' you refer to?

....... Oh, and by the way, the Goldfish Aquarium is not Jim's -

....... Whoops!!!!!

ps, - Welcome to the forum.

Jav400 · 10-18-2003, 12:08 PM

In the first place, Cliff is right. Jim didn't create the Goldfish saver.

In the second place, how can you tell someone that they created something "wrong" when it's their own creation? You might have the opinion that, to you it would be better if................ but I fail to see where wrong comes into play at all.

James · 10-18-2003, 04:18 PM

Executioner
Can you define "wrong" in respect to this topic?
What is "wrong"?
Don't tell me Jim is wrong because your idea is different from Jim's..then that's so subjective...I hope yopu don't mean that

Goldfish won't poke their noses off-screen in GA as MA2 does, however, why dont' you just consider that your screen is a window which sees part of a huge tank?

feldon34 · 10-18-2003, 04:48 PM

Welcome to the forum.

If you have questions/concerns/complaints about the SereneScreen Marine Aquarium created by Jim Sachs, please post them in the SereneScreen Marine Aquarium forum.

If you have questions/concerns/complaints about the LifeGlobe Goldfish Aquarium published by Prolific Publishing, please post them in the Goldfish Aquarium forum.

Jim Sachs allows the fish to swim off-screen because the alternative would require showing the left and right sides of the tank (to be realistic). The reflections and refraction would be complex.

Thanks!

cjmaddy · 10-18-2003, 05:27 PM

Executioner,
Thank you for your PM. In the interests of clarifying a few points however, I will make the following comments in public.
If Jim did not do the Goldfish Aquarium, then it is not Jim who is wrong, - if indeed anyone can be said to be wrong! ...... (See Michael's point, above.)
I understand there are a number of reasons why the fish swim off the sides of the screen, and I agree that in the case of the GA there is some irritation when the fish spend so much of their time there at the sides of the tank, but this is not the case with Jim's SSA's. - I am also assured that that is in fact what goldfish do!

As I see it, (and he will correct me if I'm wrong,

) - it is Jim's whole aim to get as near to reality as possible, so if he can make it "physiologically correct" - he will!

I feel the thread title is unfortunate, and is possibly in the wrong forum, - if we are discussing Jim's views.

Hope this clears up some of my opinions.

EVERRET · 10-18-2003, 07:29 PM

By your Title "JIM SACH'S IS WRONG" I hope you were just trying to get everyones attention and not being serious, because if you are Jim will not only never reply to you, he will never pay any attention to any of your ideas.

Next time try to be a little more tactfull if you want a serious reply and we will be happy to put in our 2 cents also.

Reichart · 10-19-2003, 01:38 AM

1. Q: ...... And I thought I was pernickety!

A: LOL.

And I thought I was "Persnickety" you say tomato, and I say, well, this works better not in writing...

As to the edges of the tank, the Goldfish use much more sophisticated formulas to move the fish around. They are not “between glass” the way the Salt water fish are. The GF can move in 6 degrees of freedom. This will take years to nail, but we plan to do it.

Jim Sachs · 10-19-2003, 09:14 AM

I also have always heard it as "persnickety".

10-19-2003, 10:01 AM

Reichart, "six degrees of freedom?" Is Kevin Bacon somehow involved in this?

Cliff, you are persnickety, but it's a good thing.

Wizwad · 10-19-2003, 10:35 AM

Pernickety/Persnickety

I've heard both, but almost always from U.S. citizens in either case. I'd either be called a 'smart alec' or 'smart arse' by British locals, or 'pedantic' by those with a wider than usual vocabulary.

cjmaddy · 10-19-2003, 02:34 PM

Got to admit, I hadn't heard of 'Persnickety' ....... it's not even in Chambers!

...... The story behind my use of the word, without the 's' - (and it's inclusion in my sig!) - is as follows:-

In the 60's, I was working at Ferranti's, - the Chief Planning Engineer was part Engineer, part Gentleman, (ie,... he wore a bow tie! - which was not part of your average engineer's wardrobe!) - It was in the early days of computer controlled machine tools, and one of his favourite comments was that computers were ... 'super-pernickety idiots!'

He was of course quite right, - the phrase has stuck with me ever since, - and to this day, I can not think of a better description of a computer!

To those who may have thought of computers as something relatively new, - think again! - My dad was a builder working for a Manchester firm. I remember him talking of working on a building where a large room was filled with racks of valve equipment. - In fact, it was what I have since learnt, was the very first computer, at what is now UMIST, and no, - it didn't belong to Bill Gates!

EDIT: just found this in Roget's Thesaurus .....

pernickety or persnickety (adjective)

attentive: close, minute, nice, meticulous, particular, pernickety, punctilious, accurate

fastidious: punctilious, painstaking, conscientious, overconscientious, critical, hypercritical, overcritical, fussy, pernickety, hard to please, fault-finding, censorious, disapproving

The Original Roget's Longman Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases (British Version) is licensed from Longman Group UK Limited. Copyright © 1994 Longman Group UK Limited. All rights reserved.

................. sounds like me!

Marsh Marigold · 10-20-2003, 06:24 AM

Fascinating. You learn something new every day!

I noticed your spelling of "pernickety" but thought it was a typo (the first time) but of course a true pernicket would not let a mispelling stand...

PS - I'm one too. It can be a terrible thing.

Marian Nichols · 10-20-2003, 08:48 AM

I can remember back in my elementary school days of a computer that took up the space of a very large room, and it communicated by punch cards. It had a name and for the life of me, I cannot remember it. Was it Univac or something to that affect? This probably needs to be in another thread, LOL. I'm sorry, Morgan can move it if he deems fit.
Personally, I love both products and if they need any improvement, I am sure it will be done. I just find it amazing that they can do what they do out of thin air. I mean they have no paper or pencils only keyboard and probably a sketch tablet of some sorts. It all water over my head! LOL! I say keep it up, I love it all. As I said once before it’s all icing on the cake!

feldon34 · 10-20-2003, 09:48 AM

Univac was one of them, yes.

Marian Nichols · 10-20-2003, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by feldon27
Univac was one of them, yes.

My memory didn't failed me. Thanks

Marsh Marigold · 11-09-2003, 03:13 PM

The Detroit News Homestyle section mentions an area business:

patscarr · 10-02-2004, 03:15 PM

persnickety made it to # 8 !!!

10-02-2004, 05:47 PM

I saw this thread reopened and I thought "Dang, Jim is still wrong?! And he's had a whole year to get it right!" But I won't say more for fear of being branded an "ass kisser."

Garrison · 10-04-2004, 06:46 PM

Couldn't the moderators just move the thread to the proper location? Seems simple enough. It's pretty silly to say someone is wrong about their own creation. There's no way to define right or wrong where art is concerned. Of course if the intent is to be truely realistic and the bubbles are going down instead of up then that can definitely be categorized as wrong. In the case of the side of the tank being off screen, it is merely the creators choice and can in no way be called wrong. Personally I don't really care for it either but I'm not sure there are any better alternatives. I'll have to leave that to the programming experts.

10-18-2003, 11:30 AM	#1
Executioner Registered Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 13	Jim Sachs is wrong. I can understand Jim's dedication to detail,however,we are all aware that the screensaver is an animation;and,as much as we'd like it to be authentic,find it very annoying when the fish poke their noses off-screen. It's much more pleasing to the eye when they stop at the side (or top) of the desk-top. It is not my intention that this be considered a criticsim of Jim or his work. His marine screensavers are FANTISTIC and I am much looking foreward to his Fresh-water Aquarium...............It's just a thought.

10-18-2003, 12:08 PM	#3
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	In the first place, Cliff is right. Jim didn't create the Goldfish saver. In the second place, how can you tell someone that they created something "wrong" when it's their own creation? You might have the opinion that, to you it would be better if................ but I fail to see where wrong comes into play at all. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-18-2003, 04:18 PM	#4
James Principal Engineer as SDET Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Was in Auckland, New Zealand, Now in Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 1,406	Executioner Can you define "wrong" in respect to this topic? What is "wrong"? Don't tell me Jim is wrong because your idea is different from Jim's..then that's so subjective...I hope yopu don't mean that Goldfish won't poke their noses off-screen in GA as MA2 does, however, why dont' you just consider that your screen is a window which sees part of a huge tank? James C Chen Principal Engineer as SDET, Connected Services HTC Corporation 88 Section 3. Zhongxing Road Xindian District, New Taipei City 231, Taiwan www.htc.com

10-18-2003, 04:48 PM	#5
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Welcome to the forum. If you have questions/concerns/complaints about the SereneScreen Marine Aquarium created by Jim Sachs, please post them in the SereneScreen Marine Aquarium forum. If you have questions/concerns/complaints about the LifeGlobe Goldfish Aquarium published by Prolific Publishing, please post them in the Goldfish Aquarium forum. Jim Sachs allows the fish to swim off-screen because the alternative would require showing the left and right sides of the tank (to be realistic). The reflections and refraction would be complex. Thanks! "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-18-2003, 07:29 PM	#7
EVERRET Leopard Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: california Posts: 115	"It is not my intention that this be considered a criticsim of Jim or his work." ?? By your Title "JIM SACH'S IS WRONG" I hope you were just trying to get everyones attention and not being serious, because if you are Jim will not only never reply to you, he will never pay any attention to any of your ideas. Next time try to be a little more tactfull if you want a serious reply and we will be happy to put in our 2 cents also.

10-18-2003, 11:52 AM	#2
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	....... And I thought I was pernickety! ....... Who are the 'we' you refer to? ....... Oh, and by the way, the Goldfish Aquarium is not Jim's - ....... Whoops!!!!! ps, - Welcome to the forum.

10-18-2003, 05:27 PM	#6
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Executioner, Thank you for your PM. In the interests of clarifying a few points however, I will make the following comments in public. If Jim did not do the Goldfish Aquarium, then it is not Jim who is wrong, - if indeed anyone can be said to be wrong! ...... (See Michael's point, above.) I understand there are a number of reasons why the fish swim off the sides of the screen, and I agree that in the case of the GA there is some irritation when the fish spend so much of their time there at the sides of the tank, but this is not the case with Jim's SSA's. - I am also assured that that is in fact what goldfish do! As I see it, (and he will correct me if I'm wrong, ) - it is Jim's whole aim to get as near to reality as possible, so if he can make it "physiologically correct" - he will! I feel the thread title is unfortunate, and is possibly in the wrong forum, - if we are discussing Jim's views. Hope this clears up some of my opinions.

10-19-2003, 01:38 AM	#8
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	1. Q: ...... And I thought I was pernickety! A: LOL. And I thought I was "Persnickety" you say tomato, and I say, well, this works better not in writing... As to the edges of the tank, the Goldfish use much more sophisticated formulas to move the fish around. They are not “between glass” the way the Salt water fish are. The GF can move in 6 degrees of freedom. This will take years to nail, but we plan to do it. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

10-19-2003, 09:14 AM	#9
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	I also have always heard it as "persnickety". Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-19-2003, 10:01 AM	#10
klyntun Guest Posts: n/a	Reichart, "six degrees of freedom?" Is Kevin Bacon somehow involved in this? Cliff, you are persnickety, but it's a good thing.

10-19-2003, 10:35 AM	#11
Wizwad Only me... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 2,584	Pernickety/Persnickety I've heard both, but almost always from U.S. citizens in either case. I'd either be called a 'smart alec' or 'smart arse' by British locals, or 'pedantic' by those with a wider than usual vocabulary. Mark ----------- Intel i7 12700K \| Aorus Z690 Pro \| Corsair DDR5 5600 32GB \| Asus Dual RTX3060ti 6GB v2 Mini OC \| Corsair RM850 Gold PSU \| 1TB NVMe M.2 WD Black SN850 \| 4TB Seagate BarraCuda HDD \| Corsair Airflow 5000D Case \| HP 32QHD 4K Monitor \| Windows 11 x64 Professional

10-19-2003, 02:34 PM	#12
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Got to admit, I hadn't heard of 'Persnickety' ....... it's not even in Chambers! ...... The story behind my use of the word, without the 's' - (and it's inclusion in my sig!) - is as follows:- In the 60's, I was working at Ferranti's, - the Chief Planning Engineer was part Engineer, part Gentleman, (ie,... he wore a bow tie! - which was not part of your average engineer's wardrobe!) - It was in the early days of computer controlled machine tools, and one of his favourite comments was that computers were ... 'super-pernickety idiots!' He was of course quite right, - the phrase has stuck with me ever since, - and to this day, I can not think of a better description of a computer! To those who may have thought of computers as something relatively new, - think again! - My dad was a builder working for a Manchester firm. I remember him talking of working on a building where a large room was filled with racks of valve equipment. - In fact, it was what I have since learnt, was the very first computer, at what is now UMIST, and no, - it didn't belong to Bill Gates! EDIT: just found this in Roget's Thesaurus ..... *pernickety or persnickety* (adjective) attentive: close, minute, nice, meticulous, particular, pernickety, punctilious, accurate fastidious: punctilious, painstaking, conscientious, overconscientious, critical, hypercritical, overcritical, fussy, pernickety, hard to please, fault-finding, censorious, disapproving The Original Roget's Longman Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases (British Version) is licensed from Longman Group UK Limited. Copyright © 1994 Longman Group UK Limited. All rights reserved. ................. sounds like me! Last edited by cjmaddy; 10-19-2003 at 03:18 PM.

10-20-2003, 06:24 AM	#13
Marsh Marigold Still Folding Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Plymouth, Michigan Posts: 190	Fascinating. You learn something new every day! I noticed your spelling of "pernickety" but thought it was a typo (the first time) but of course a true pernicket would not let a mispelling stand... PS - I'm one too. It can be a terrible thing. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

10-20-2003, 08:48 AM	#14
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	I can remember back in my elementary school days of a computer that took up the space of a very large room, and it communicated by punch cards. It had a name and for the life of me, I cannot remember it. Was it Univac or something to that affect? This probably needs to be in another thread, LOL. I'm sorry, Morgan can move it if he deems fit. Personally, I love both products and if they need any improvement, I am sure it will be done. I just find it amazing that they can do what they do out of thin air. I mean they have no paper or pencils only keyboard and probably a sketch tablet of some sorts. It all water over my head! LOL! I say keep it up, I love it all. As I said once before it’s all icing on the cake! Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

10-20-2003, 09:48 AM	#15
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Univac was one of them, yes. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-20-2003, 09:58 AM	#16
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Originally posted by feldon27 Univac was one of them, yes. My memory didn't failed me. Thanks Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

10-02-2004, 03:15 PM	#18
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	persnickety made it to # 8 !!! Patrick

10-02-2004, 05:47 PM	#19
klyntun Guest Posts: n/a	Whew! I saw this thread reopened and I thought "Dang, Jim is still wrong?! And he's had a whole year to get it right!" But I won't say more for fear of being branded an "ass kisser."

10-04-2004, 06:46 PM	#20
Garrison Registered Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14	Couldn't the moderators just move the thread to the proper location? Seems simple enough. It's pretty silly to say someone is wrong about their own creation. There's no way to define right or wrong where art is concerned. Of course if the intent is to be truely realistic and the bubbles are going down instead of up then that can definitely be categorized as wrong. In the case of the side of the tank being off screen, it is merely the creators choice and can in no way be called wrong. Personally I don't really care for it either but I'm not sure there are any better alternatives. I'll have to leave that to the programming experts.